What do YOU think?

[Eastern Mind]

Vannakkam: Forty years ago, about 2 years into the exploration of Sanatan Dharma, I encountered a well respected pundit 15 years my senior, whom I asked questions of. Still in the exploratory stage of my coming home to SD, it was a common occurrence to ask questions of the elders, just as new folks come to HDF and ask questions.

After some time spent with this man, a former monk in the Ramakrishna order, and a local pundit, I began to realise that all his answers were quotes. He knew the words of Ramakrishna well, the Gita, some Upanishads, etc. So I'd ask, "What do you think of reincarnation?" etc, and he'd say, "Well, the Gita says ... " etc. , never ever telling me directly what he personally thought.

He was a hard core Smarta in the traditional way, so I became curious as to who his Ishta was. I never did find out, despite my youthful pestering. To this day I don't know. It was always some vague answer like 'They're all the same", etc. Still he did insist he indeed had an ishta. Just who, it wasn't clear. Perhaps he thought he'd be insulting me.

It struck me as odd, this learned gentleman not actually knowing what he thought. After all, I had some very strong concepts of God's nature, and the like before ever encountering SD, just from reflecting on it. But SD confirmed who I was, philosophically.

Ultimately the poor fellow's actions spoke louder that any words, as he was unable to repay a small financial debt he owed me, despite 2 or 3 reminders.

Aum Namasivaya

[Believer]

Namaste,

Originally Posted by Eastern Mind

Ultimately the poor fellow's actions spoke louder that any words, as he was unable to repay a small financial debt he owed me, despite 2 or 3 reminders.

Was it a debt or personal consulting fees which he did not have to repay?

The best way for a priest to keep his job at a temple in North America is to not say anything, not have any opinions and when pressed, quote the scriptures. It is all about job security.

Pranam.

[surrenderindailylife]

Originally Posted by Eastern Mind

Ultimately the poor fellow's actions spoke louder that any words, as he was unable to repay a small financial debt he owed me, despite 2 or 3 reminders.

Namaste EM

To me, someone who practices teachings of scriptures day in day out - especially when not watched by others (or society at large) is the need of the times that we live in. Even a few principles practised deeply would leave behind a profound impression (on society) rather than preaching of scriptures without any personal example to set.

Om Namah Shivay

[Eastern Mind]

Vannakkam: It was just a story to illustrate a point. My friend was not a full time priest, but an engineer. He was an excellent volunteer pundit before the society he was affiliated with had the money to hire a full time priest. Believer, it was one of those "I'll pay you later, I don't have the money just now," deals, in regard to something I'd bought for him as a request to pick it up for him, not to pay for it too.

So rather than trying to illustrate by a story, I'll be more direct:

What do YOU think? When we have discussions on HDF or in real life, what is it that YOU think? Are you a follower, only capable of regurgitating another's thoughts, or can you think for yourself? Do you have to cut and paste, in reality or metaphorically, or have you independently on your own accord via observation or insight, arrived at the same conclusions?

In the political arena, how many people vote for the party their father voted for? "I'm a Republican because my Dad was a Republican." I voted for Congress because that's what Dad told me to do." How often is it, "Well I carefully read each of the party's platforms, and this one made the most sense to me, so I voted for them."

We just had a provincial election here and that is exactly what my 21 year old daughter did, hence canceling out my vote! I'm proud of her.

That's the point.

Aum Namasivaya

[wundermonk]

Originally Posted by Eastern Mind

So I'd ask, "What do you think of reincarnation?" etc, and he'd say, "Well, the Gita says ... " etc. , never ever telling me directly what he personally thought.

I find this frustrating too.

I think it goes back to the fact that in an orthodox sense, ONE of the definitive pramanas [epistemologies] for nearly all schools of Hinduism is Sabda/Sruti.

Perhaps this is a problem that plagues all religions.

Nearly every religion has ultimate scriptures and regardless of how one may feel about a topic, one is forced to defend the scripture even though in some cases, the scripture in question may seem quite bizzare.

It would be something like the following - "Rationally, X seems to be true of subject Z. But my scripture says Y is true of subject Z. Me being a believer, I am forced to defend Y when asked about subject Z."

[kallol]

Dear EM,

Each one of us fits unto different layers or karma and gyan. If I go to a factory and ask the worker in the shopfloor about the intricacies of the design of a system, he will be limited by his knowledge and will try to borrow from the knowledge he heard from his boss.

But the same question if I ask to a designer, he will be able to give the details from basic. Much of the rest is all in between. there are lower parts that the workers.

So my take is that the Pundit is there to do the puja. He has limited knowledge. Not all are Ramakrishna. That is why he takes refuge in Gita and other scriptures or may be the kathamrita.

The big players in Ramakrishna Mutt are reknowned for their profound knowledge and discourses.

[satay]

namaste,

Originally Posted by Eastern Mind

and he'd say, "Well, the Gita says ... " etc. , never ever telling me directly what he personally thought.

I have also noticed the same with some people. They can recite the sastra like a parrot but can't explain how to apply this in practical life.

Ultimately the poor fellow's actions spoke louder that any words, as he was unable to repay a small financial debt he owed me, despite 2 or 3 reminders.

Aum Namasivaya

Well, I think you should let that debt go now and forgive him. Possibly you owed him some in last life.

[Eastern Mind]

Originally Posted by satay

Well, I think you should let that debt go now and forgive him. Possibly you owed him some in last life.

Vannakkam Satay: Yes you make me laugh. Since this was 40 years ago, I think he's been forgiven for about 39 years and 11 months. Aum Namasivaya

[Sahasranama]

I do not think it is bizarre at all that someone quotes the scriptures when asked about a subject like reincarnation. There is no other pramana for such subjects and I would rather listen to someone who speaks from scriptural knowledge than someone who is using his personal fantasy. If we didn't consult shastras for such topics, we could all join the new age movement and start making up our own chakras and avataras. I couldn't care less about what someone personally thinks about reincarnation. EM said one time that he didn't believe that humans can reincarnate as lower beings like insects and I of course respect that personal belief. But without any reference to shastras, one cannot claim that this is an accepted view in Hinduism or Agamic Shaivism in particular. Without shastra there would be nothing that prevented people presenting their personal fantasies as Hinduism.

[wundermonk]

Originally Posted by Sahasranama

I do not think it is bizarre at all that someone quotes the scriptures when asked about a subject like reincarnation. There is no other pramana for such subjects and I would rather listen to someone who speaks from scriptural knowledge than someone who is using his personal fantasy. If we didn't consult shastras for such topics, we could all join the new age movement and start making up our own chakras and avataras. I couldn't care less about what someone personally thinks about reincarnation. You said one time that you didn't believe that humans can reincarnate as lower beings like insects and I of course respect that personal belief. But without any reference to shastras, you cannot claim that this is an accepted view in Hinduism or Agamic Shaivism in particular. Without shastra there would be nothing that prevented people presenting their personal fantasies as Hinduism.

I did not specifically have reincarnation or even Hinduism in mind when I used the term "bizarre". Reincarnation is not empirically observable and clearly in matters supersensible, scriptures are the only authentic source.