Who when to hell and back in Hinduism to warn about it?

[Mana]

Namaste MahaHrada,

Thank you kindly for the description, this sounds to be a logical approach to explaining the flow of prana in the body to me.

It is interesting to note that the human nervous system transmits signals via longitudinal waves using piezoelectric effect. Even human body fat has this piezoelectric capacity, and our bone structure is highly effected by electro magnetism in its production of red blood cells, blood which is continually given an electric charge by the heart.

We are all aware that electricity does not travel down a cable but around it; are we not? So how best to map this energy flow?

I Like very much like this description that you give.

How difficult to trigger conciousness, in one who has not realised that the cause of their immediate actions, which bring them suffering; are their own misguided flow of energy, from which they consequently suffer. I have mentioned in another post, an acquaintance of mine, who has at least 4 distinct different egos or rather modes of functioning of her ego, her face actually looks very different depending on which one is engaged, She is very unhappy at times.

She could definitely be described as demonic!

Do you think these poor souls must be left in their misery or can they be introduced via an explanation and practis to a more enlightened path?

She literally spits venom when ever spirituality is mentioned, is an alcoholic, and a liar. Yet the potential which she holds is enormous, she has profound kindness when she feels safe, is highly intelligent and a highly skilled crafts woman.

What a curios but beautiful world; in all of its dimensions!

praNAma

mana

[MahaHrada]

Originally Posted by Mana

How difficult to trigger conciousness, in one who has not realised that the cause of their immediate actions, which bring them suffering; are their own misguided flow of energy, from which they consequently suffer.

Dear Mana

In my postings i was emphasizing the opposite of what you read in it: that our habits and karma (actions) vasanas (residues of past actions) and impurities wrong attitudes and habits, bad company we keep etc.are the cause of a distorted impure energy flow and can even dislocate ones identity or cause the arising of opposing desires. Therefore we cannot take it for granted that our energy system functions in the way that is described in the tantras. So in a certain way the arrangement of chakras is caused by correct sadhana and appropriate attitudes.

Rather than influenceing our energy system to improve our life i would recommend in the beginning that by postively influencing our thoughts, speech, actions and habits we improve our energy system. That would be the traditional approach.

Meditations involving Nadis and Chakras are therefore advanced practices that require prior training, virtuos habits, emotional and mental clarity, centeredness and stability to be successful.

I have mentioned in another post, an acquaintance of mine, ...

I understand that you have a desire to help your friend but i am the wrong person to ask. I have little practical experience of dealing with people that have addictions and mental imbalances, as you describe.

I am aware that in the new age community and among practicioners of alternative health methods, concepts drawn from tantras like chakras, mantras and prana are used in a therapeutical context but these concepts have so much deviated from their original meaning that there is almost nothing similar except the terminology. Since my main study is the traditional practices i am afraid i cannot be of any help regarding chakras in the context of alternative theraphy.

[Mana]

Namaste MahaHrada,

Oh dear, it would appear that you have inverted the intend sense of my posting in your understanding of it; as I am sure that you are well aware, this is a common problem when reflecting upon the words of others.

English can be such an ambiguous language.

Not to worry this is clearly of little consequence, my current path is that of Kashmir Shavism, Which it would appear differs some what from your lineage; I was simply comparing notes with your wonderful analogy.

I love to seek to express God with new and modern forms; I find that it is so elegant, when the universe folds in such a manor.

praNAma

mana

[MahaHrada]

Originally Posted by Mana

Namaste MahaHrada,

Oh dear, it would appear that you have inverted the intend sense of my posting in your understanding of it; as I am sure that you are well aware, this is a common problem when reflecting upon the words of others.

English can be such an ambiguous language.

Not to worry this is clearly of little consequence, my current path is that of Kashmir Shavism, Which it would appear differs some what from your lineage; I was simply comparing notes with your wonderful analogy.

I love to seek to express God with new and modern forms; I find that it is so elegant, when the universe folds in such a manor.

praNAma

mana

I thought you understood that practises with prana and kundalini nadis and chakras are primary a remedy for subtle, mental and physical problems, i hope you don´t mind my ignorance of the subtilities of the english language.
You see what i call an impure or obstructed subtle body, is actually a subtle body well fitted for the normal worldly pursuits and just unfit for advanced practices with subtle energies.

How did your path become that of kashmir shaivaism? Did you wake up one morning and when the morning sun smiled at you through the bedroom window one of the rays touched your head and miraculosly transformed you into a kashmir shaiva?

[Mana]

Originally Posted by MahaHrada

I thought you understood that practises with prana and kundalini nadis and chakras are primary a remedy for subtle, mental and physical problems, i hope you don´t mind my ignorance of the subtilities of the english language.
You see what i call an impure or obstructed subtle body, is actually a subtle body well fitted for the normal worldly pursuits and just unfit for advanced practices with subtle energies.

Not at all, to my mind this is a language for explaining the apparent contact between the subtitle body and the physical body, illusionary by nature. Which is a reflection of the communal structure of the relations between jiva in the material world; also of time her self and possible futures, but; this is not the place for expansion of that.

Oh your mastery of English is very good, this is a common flaw of all text, when describing images in multi-dimensions perceived in the minds eye. English, however, is by nature an ambiguous language; its mastery allows for a terrible manipulation of truth, one need only listen to a politician to recognise this; I think this stems from its Latin root. Perhaps this is solely my understanding, although I have drawn upon it from certain experience with driven states of mind, in which this becomes very apparent.

Originally Posted by MahaHrada

How did your path become that of kashmir shaivaism? Did you wake up one morning and when the morning sun smiled at you through the bedroom window one of the rays touched your head and miraculosly transformed you into a kashmir shaiva?

Ah you speak of pratyabhijNA? No not really; mine I should liken to nAdavedha, I feel drawn to the spanda system; as movement is necessary to avoid stagnation; just as the Ganges must flow, so must we in our understanding of this divine knowledge.

18 years have passed since my first breath of this air; I am only now becoming steady in posture, very slowly.

Thank you for asking.

praNAma

mana

[MahaHrada]

Originally Posted by Mana

Oh your mastery of English is very good, this is a common flaw of all text, when describing images in multi-dimensions perceived in the minds eye. English, however, is by nature an ambiguous language; its mastery allows for a terrible manipulation of truth, one need only listen to a politician to recognise this

By Language certainly one is able to create an illusive world detached from Reality, but not only by using it in an ambigous way, it seems to be an inherent quality of the nature of language and speech, since we have to focus and that in itself is limiting.

Ah you speak of pratyabhijNA? No not really;

Yes you are right : No not really;
I am recently asking myself, while observing people interact in this forum, what it is that makes people assume identities? and How real are these behind the keyboard compared to real life identities? What threshold is there? Is there any difference in what you are or how you act or think or your habits and the company you keep before you first stated "i am a kashmir shaiva" and after your miraculous transformation?

mine I should liken to nAdavedha, I feel drawn to the spanda system; as movement is necessary to avoid stagnation; just as the Ganges must flow, so must we in our understanding of this divine knowledge.
18 years have passed since my first breath of this air; I am only now becoming steady in posture, very slowly.

Thanks for the explanations, you helped my private research into the mysteries of the human mind, the habit and diverse causes that humans have as a reason for assuming identities are perplexing for me to watch. Also the differences between real life identities and behind the keyboard situations are fascinating.

[Mana]

Namaste MahaHrada,

Thank you for your considered response; if you can not tell from the colour of the thought behind my words as to my nature, I can reassure you that all that I right comes from the heart, their is little interruption of any calculative process of the mind, if that is what you are imagining.

A casual hand on the tiller on a calm day would be an apt description. I am not one to bother with façade or masquerade reality is far to interesting.

I feel that we tend to project our selves on to others when we interact with them so we read our selves into their situation when we decyper their responses.

Thank you for sharing your thoughts; I shall now duck out of this thread.

praNAma

mana

[MahaHrada]

Originally Posted by Mana

Namaste MahaHrada,

Thank you for your considered response; if you can not tell from the colour of the thought behind my words as to my nature, I can reassure you that all that I right comes from the heart, their is little interruption of any calculative process of the mind, if that is what you are imagining.

A casual hand on the tiller on a calm day would be an apt description. I am not one to bother with façade or masquerade reality is far to interesting.

I feel that we tend to project our selves on to others when we interact with them so we read our selves into their situation when we decyper their responses.

Thank you for sharing your thoughts; I shall now duck out of this thread.

praNAma

mana

Dear Mana
No I am not insinuating anything about you, i am just amazed how many different meanings identities such as "I am a Hindu " I am a "Kashmir shaiva" " I am a Muslim" "I am a Vaishnava" i follow this or that path etc. can have in different circumstances. Also it is easy to say in the context of an internet forum" I am a Hindu" or "I am a kashmir shaiva" but in the real world this may have a different meaning.

To find a Guru that can teach what you call "Kashmir Shaivaism" and introduce and iniitiate one into this doctrine, so one can truly say "I am a kashmir Shaiva" or i follow the path of kashmir shaivaism" is a task almost impossible to accomplish these days in real life, because of the secrecy and secludedness of the few teachers of this tradition. that have survived.

So I was just musing about the fact that the sentence "my current path is kashmir Shaivaism" can mean so many radically different things in different places and with different people on this planet depending on where a person lives, what he knows or has experienced, what his aims are and what this sentence means to him personally. So my observation was not so much about you but about the general ambiguity of language and words and their meanings.

When there were still Guru of this tradition alive and willing to accept disciples and turn them into "kashmir shaivas" in real life these people had to go through all kind of sufferings, serving the guru with doing humiliating tasks and going through demanding rituals and preparations humbly serving senior disciples, doing all kind of lowly and menial tasks for long years to prove themselves worthy before they were ceremonially allowed into a Parampara and only then they would feel that they are part of that tradition but most probably out of humility would not dare to proclaim that in the open but keep it a secret. I don´t say that this is somehow more valuable than what you experienced and what caused you to write this little sentence i only contemplated non judgemental about the different meanings one little sentence can have depending on who is saying it and where and when.

[Mana]

Namaste MahaHrada,

I am blessed to have been greatly aided and guided by the amazing members of this forum.

I can empathise completely with your concern, and as such I shall try to explain why I feel this way.
I feel to be affiliated with Kashmir Shavism; due to the deep resonance between the words of Swami Lakshman Ju and my experience of reality, whilst coming to realise God, whilst awakening. Above all else this has settled a question that I had asked within, many years ago.

By self study I realised the existence of One universal conciousness and shakti I knew who I was, when I spoke of this in a rhythmic somewhat hypnotising fashion, I was locked up and medicated ...

On consequently leaving England and Europe; I became fine.

Over time I have come to better understanding of this, it has even become my guide and master, my Guru within.
Whilst experiencing the link between shakti within and externally (universal Siva); two years ago upon reading kundalini by Swami Sivananda, I was overwhelmed by energy as I first became aware of the harmony and dance between shakti and that of the movement of the celestial body's, The true awareness of this came afterwards on examining the specifics in charts.

My trials and trails have involved a passage through hell, no doubt about that. The light that I now find; has been worth every minute, step of the way.

My path into the study of the divine scriptures, and the experiences of others on their paths has only just begun.

I live a modest life, working in a factory; I get up at 5 every morning for puja and then 2h study before work, I don't drink, I am celibate and I eat very little meat.
Funnily the celibacy is not by choice, it has been brought on by the changes within me, I cannot find to meet a Woman with whom I see eye to eye, most perceive me as unstable as I have no interest in Money, they might also find my sleeping habits to be rather strange. I have not given up all hope and am fully aware that this is a function also of my spiritual stage as well as where I live.

In order to sleep at the early hour I require to awake at 5, I wear industrial ear protectors, I am hyper sensitive to sound and live in a very small apartment, in a rather shabby part of town; Only last night I was awoken by a screaming drunk man at midnight who himself could not sleep over the noise of the children partying above. I had to raise my energy to increase in size in order to threaten him to back down. I was pleased to see that I achieved this with out losing my temper.

This work is difficult due to the very closed nature of the people with whom I work, not though their own fault but through the current peak in the current cycle within kAli Yuga.
There is currently the procedure for the presidential elections in France, some of those around me have said openly that they vote extreme right (bordering on fachisme). The owner of the company's wife has cajoled the younger workers into voting extreme right.
My presence in the factory is affecting them in a consequential way, by not becoming one with them, I have been called many things by them; from, Alien to, Mass murderer to Jesus, to just plain mad of strange my presence disturbs their perception of reality.

I meditate whilst I work.

The coincidence, or rather Grace, which becomes apparent at times although not to them, stimulates in them the strangest dreams and realisations. Yet this they perceive as instability in me as their ego rejects that which the cannot perceive materially. My posture is now strong enough so as not to absorb these projections, I am even able to help another who is sensitive also to these energies although not yet concious, he currently believes that he is ill , as he has been told this, and that he thinks to much, he has fear deep within his eyes. Yet it has now become apparent to others in the work force that they are stimulating this reaction in him; happily they are shifting their comportment.

I meditate when I speak.

As I have said, my path is nAdavedha; but I am only just starting out as a student of this divine knowledge.

I do not seek to wear a badge of this noble tradition, only to cross this life's river in noble fashion; fit for one blessed with human birth.

Your interpretation of my feeling of affiliation to Kashmir Shavism is really not of my concern, I can not say no import as I am writing you this response; this divine wisdom simply helps to keep me on my right path. If that bothers you; well, that my friend you must reflect upon as being of your own internal issue ...

I meditate when I play and sing for Siva; On my guitar. I shall sing for you, it takes time to meditate and fall into the rhythm and flow required for maximum effect, but I have and am finding this, to be most beneficial. I should like to practise more but my laborious work disrupts this flow. The karma that I must burn after egaging in such discussion as this is readily dealt with in this manor.

Thank you for your consideration, I hope this clarifies my life's situation for you, I will be more than happy to meet with you should you so desire; If this will enable you to further your studies.

Illumination is the only way to true understanding, one must see for ones self.

I have so much still to learn so as to do justice to this great tradition; I am both humbled and satisfied by this fair.

praNAma

mana

[MahaHrada]

Dear Mana
That was a very vivid description of your life your past, and your current situation, thank you for that. It is interesting for me to observe why and how someone feels a resonance to aspects of the tantric traditions, It appears from what you write that you had overwhelming experiences that are still not easy to integrate into daily life.
Reality and identity both can be more fluid and subject to changes than it is convinient for trying to lead a meaningful life, but becoming to close minded is of course as you write, as great a problem than enhanced sensitivity, just it is not as obvious to most.

Kashmir Shaivaism and also other tantric traditions can be very complicated to grasp, and demanding to practise, especially without the help from a qualified, competent and experienced guide, which have become very rare even in India nowadays.

I am always very reluctant to write or speak about these traditions because the concepts are so easily misunderstood and among all indian traditions it is the one which is hardest to grasp, when solitary.

Fortunately there are also other traditions that do not have such strict need for personal guidance.

But if you feel that resonance i guess you have to try to make your study as rewarding for you as it is possible under the circumstances. I wish you the best of luck and hope you are successful.