Revisting karma...

[yajvan]

hariḥ oṁ
~~~~~~

namasté

This post and the ones to follow is to stimulate thinking, knowledge and conversations on karma ( properly written as karman ).

It seems those new to sanātana dharma tend to have an inherent 'feel' for this notion of karman. We hear many say - that was my karma, or I have collected good/bad karma. While these themes are interesting, there is more to this notion then what is said.

karman कर्मन् (karma) is defined simply as action, performance; some say it is action consisting in motion¹. So if I say this is my karma , what did I say ? People tend to infer some fate, destiny, or predetermination has taken place.

Yet what we have said ( by definition) this is my action. It infers, not rightly so, a destiny or fate , a pre-determined outcome no matter what action is taken on. IMHO we need a better baseline of understanding for us to appreciate this notion all together.

Let's list a few ideas to create a baseline of understanding. There are a few items that we can discuss:

• Karman is action, performance; the result of karman is kṛtá. It means cultivated, done, result, accomplished, made; hence karma leads to kṛtá.

It seems (to me) instead of saying that is my karma, it would be fitting to say that is my kṛtá.

• Some say karma is a transition/transformation from one condition or event to another... that is some result occurs. These results can be mild, medium or strong in their result; and in turn the kṛtá can be immediate, mid-term or postponed in their duration or timing.

• A key principle is karman is unfathomable. Who says so ? Kṛṣṇa-jī informs us of this in the bhāgavad gītā chapt 4, 17śloka. Let me take an example.

Let's say you live on a inclined (sloped) street . A little boy rolls a ball down the street. You notice it and for play you choose to put your foot in the way of the ball to stop it but you only slightly change the direction of the ball and it continues to roll. It now has taken a different course and speed. The ball hits a bump a few meters down the road and bounces up. When it bounces up its path takes the ball right inside a car (auto); It startles the driver who accidentally kicks the car out of gear and into neutral. The auto rolls forward and bumps a delivery bike carrying medical supplies to a person in need. The supplies crash to the ground and is run over by a bus, crushing the supplies. The person in need of the medicine does not get the prescription in time and passes on (dies).

Now who then takes on the authorship of this action ? The boy ? you and your foot ( you only put your foot out for play) ? The driver of the auto ? The delivery boy on the bike ? The bus driver ( and the passengers) ? Have we collected all the agents that where involved ? No.

The universe too was involved. It supplied the gravity that gave the velocity to the ball. It supplied the rules of physics that says how high a ball will bounce when an object ( in this case the bump in the street) impedes its direction. The laws of nature are involved to dictate when and if a bottle will break when it hits the ground ( the medical prescription); and the amount of force the bus has to transmit to break the bottle with its tires.

So , one bystander says did you see the accident ? Note that an accident is an event or set of events in which kṛtá ( the result) has an unwelcomed, undesirable, unwanted outcome. To this, people ascribe ~ bad karma~ to the string of actions. Yet it is the human that infers good or bad. Each and every action that occurred by itself was karman, an action. In and of itself, was that action bad? Good and bad is relative , no?

What if the patient that died was a highly undesirable, wicked, and brutal man that killed every thing in his path. Then that final action people would say , look at the good thing that occurred that wicked man is no more.
Good & bad is greatly influenced by a society's values ( this is different then sattva and tamas and will leave for a future post.)

As we look at all the agents that where a part of this action for the patient to die we have not yet proscribed any ~blame~. This is the point for discussion. What are your thoughts on this matter ? Who can take authorship of the final event ?

We will talk more on these ideas above and add a few more to our list:

• One cannot stop karma by mere absence of gross actions.
• For karma to occur ( action and reaction or result) it must occur in duality , in a world of things and differences.

praṇām

words

• action consisting in motion is the 3rd within 7 categories found in the nyāya philosophy ; There are 5 motions utkṣepaṇa , avakṣepaṇa , ākuñcana , prasāraṇa , and gamana
• kṛti the act of doing , making , performing , manufacturing , composing

[smaranam]

Namaste

What are your thoughts on this matter ? Who can take authorship of the final event ?

P r a k R t i. प्रकृति n a t u r e
She pulls strings of the three guNa (modes of nature).

It was always she, not me

praNAm

(there, I just opened a can of worms)

[wundermonk]

Interesting post/thread...

In my view, EVERY action done with desire leads to samskara. If you love eating chocolates, every time you eat one, your love for it is reinforced. If you hate Hinduism, every time you see a Hindu, your hate will be reinforced and you will try your best to deceitfully convert him. [Please...dont derail this thread by quoting this further...I just wrote this because this seems to be the topic du jour. Can we have some sense of humour? ]

I think this is where the Advaitic concept of Jivanmukta comes into play. It is only when the desire/knowledge/curiosity about Krta does NOT force you into action, does Karma not accrue. Action has to be done for action's sake and not for the sake of the results.

For instance, let us suppose I decide to rob a bank. I carry a gun into the bank. But I notice that someone else has preempted me. There is ANOTHER robber who is holding the bank employees hostage at gun point. I can shoot this robber and people will praise me as a hero.

Yet, have I done a good act? According to Karma, NO. It was out of desire to rob that I carried the gun into the bank in the first place. This desire leads to reinforcement of samskara and from a Karmic stand point, I acquire bad Karma.

[devotee]

Namste Smaranam,

P r a k R t i. प्रकृति n a t u r e
She pulls strings of the three guNa (modes of nature).
It was always she, not me

That is what Bhagwan Krishna tell us in Bhagwad Gita. If you are able to do that then no Karma can bind you. Bhagwan says it so easily ... but it is very very difficult.

Abandoning the authorship is extremely difficult until the Drashta-bhaava (witnessing attitude) is cultivated.

OM

[devotee]

Namaste Yajvan ji,

I don't see any easy way out of this ensnaring network of Karmas. Every Karma is like Rakta-beeja ... (the demon- whose every drop of blood produced another demon). Whether you do good Karma or bad Karma ... it results into favorable or unfavorable chances and situations ... & more Karmas. It is an unending chain-reaction -- one leading to the other.

Imho, it is JnAna alone which can give us respite from this unending vicious cycles of Karmas. ... and for this JnAna we need the grace of God/Guru and strict observance of spiritual discipline (Yama/Niyama).

OM

[Mana]

Namaste janatA,

Is it not the faith in our hearts and clear vision resulting from the reflection of mind, that form these karman effects? Thus the need for a clean reflection.

By non-action, no instant return of effect is felt; yet the world out side will still both exist and effect us, even when we turn our backs on her. There is always another thread to touch us; even whilst we are seated on the very top of the world.
Negligence by the wise brings about a state of regression. Is it not selfish to neglect the wishes of prakRti, parvarti?
How can we forget dharma; whilst observing karma?

परावर = parAvara= whole extent of an idea.
पारावार = pArAvAra = Sea.

Is it not though good deed that regression is halted?

परावर्त्त = parAvartta = regress

Any other account of this action after the fact may be considered:

वार्त्ता = vArttA = rumour

We are near the field, thus its movement will still play upon our hearts.

Removing the vibration of our own desire allows our heart to vibrate in resonance with the engulfing field:

Om ...

Did we kick the ball, or, did the ball kick us?

praNAma

mana

[smaranam]

Namste Smaranam,



That is what Bhagwan Krishna tell us in Bhagwad Gita. If you are able to do that then no Karma can bind you. Bhagwan says it so easily ... but it is very very difficult.

Abandoning the authorship is extremely difficult until the Drashta-bhaava (witnessing attitude) is cultivated.

OM

I am noth smalanam. I am justh me. But .. smalanam is good. I don't let her' be bad.

Must be good not bad. She must not eat chocolate and lob a bank. She must eat my left over yummies and not glab things by folce or lob. Lobbers ale bad. vely vely bad. Only lobbing maakhan is not bad - if you ale in my team. If you lob maakhan yulself that is bad.

[Ganeshprasad]

Pranam

Do we act on our own, is it a reaction to circumstances, do we induce anger on others, it is quite easy to see anger on this forum was it because someone being too nice induced it?
All this are conjecture, it is impossible to know precisely what was the cause and affect , does prakruti pull our strings? Does anything happen by chance or is it predestine are we just katputli (puppets) ?

Endeavor and you will achieve eventually, a king got his inspiration observing a spider climbing and eventually making it? Was spider an instrument in kings decision? Perhaps, life gives little lessons as we go along.

Gita informs us, there are 5 factors involved in what ever good or bad action one does.
In All these desires and hate plays a significant part

Jai Shree Krishna

[yajvan]

hariḥ oṁ
~~~~~~

namasté devotee (et.al)

Namaste Yajvan ji,
Whether you do good Karma or bad Karma ... it results into favorable or unfavorable chances and situations ... & more Karmas. It is an unending chain-reaction -- one leading to the other.

Yes, what you say is a pickle no doubt.

I wrote,

One cannot stop karma by mere absence of gross actions;

One may think I will retire to a cave and be out side the field of action.
If I am there then I will not perform actions and be rid of it.

Yet in that cave or in your home one's heart continues to beat, the brain functions, the stomach secretes various fluids, the intestines expand and contract, the mind has waves of thought, all these actions continue and the ignorant think they are doing nothing by not working or engaging with others. This withdrawal to the cave has other benefits, yet they are not outside the field of action.

Now to support this POV kṛṣṇa-jī informs us of the following from the bhāgavad gītā, chapter 3, 5th śloka:
na hi kaṣcit kṣaṇam api
jātu tiṣthaty akarmakṛt |
kāryate hy avasaḥ karma
sarvaḥ prakṛti-jair guṇaiḥ ||

This says, no one indeed can exist for an instant¹ without performing action; for every one is helplessly driven to activity by the guna-s born of prakṛti (~nature~).

Prakṛti is the parent of the 3 guna-s , always in motion. Note the word prakṛti. Within this word we
see prakṛti. Kṛti is defined as the act of doing , making , performing , manufacturing. It is just like karman ( doing, performing). Recall from post #1 above the word kṛtá defined as cultivated, done, result, accomplished, made. We can see this connection of kṛti to kṛtá; kṛti leads to kṛtá.

Here is a fact as I see it; nature or prakṛti, by its own nature, is always doing (kṛti), engaged in karma ( action ). We as a body-mind being are part of nature, so we are compelled in doing , in kṛti and kṛtá. So even if we think that we are going to stop 'doing' we cannot if we are lead by the body , as the body is driven by nature and its cycles. We cannot run away from action.

So what is one to do ? How do we stop this perpertual activity that yeilds more actions, more engagement in the world, more responsibility, more bondage, more potential grief? The answer to this question comes with the next question:

For karma to occur ( action and reaction or result) it must occur in duality , in a world of things and differences.

This will be addressed in an upcoming post.

praṇām

words
an instant is a kṣaṇa , an instantaneous point of time , twinkling of an eye.

[smaranam]

Pranam

does prakruti pull our strings? Does anything happen by chance or is it predestine are we just katputli (puppets) ?

Gita informs us, there are 5 factors involved in what ever good or bad action one does.
In All these desires and hate plays a significant part

Jai Shree Krishna

Planaam GaneshPlasaadji

Why not join the maakhn-chole team ?

See, it is like this:

1. Become Maayaa's katputli (puppet) (She pulls the stlings)
OR
2. Become Klishna-the-Maakhn-chole's** katputli (puppet)

You cannot be both.

Advantages of being maakhn-chole's katputli

* Maakhn-chole loves you so yr more of His pet that puppet
* You are one in spirit with maakhn-chole - tadAtmic bhaav, so will never do
anything maakhn-chole dislikes
* Get to be with maakhn-chole 24 X 7 and share the butter


---
Shrila Prabhupad wrote a poem during immigration at Boston just before starting the Krishna Consciousness movement in USA (on Guru's order) :
"...
0 Lord, I am just like a puppet in Your hands. So if You have brought me here to dance, then make me dance, make me dance, 0 Lord, make me dance as You like.
..."

(Solly yajvanji, didn't mean to interrupt your chain of thought/posts)

Haleee Klishnaaa

_______
** Maakhn-chole = maakhan chor = butter thief = KRshNa