Continuation of "Importance of SandhyaVandhanam"

[TatTvamAsi]

Since Satay closed the other thread, I wanted to reply to Sahasranama's post.

You first said:

I am not specifically talking about brahmins, but about all Hindus who have done upanayana sanskaar.

Your subsequent posts were directed towards Brahmins as you said:

I'd bet that the same people who are so vocal about being a brahmin are not doing Sandhya Vandana. In the devi bhagavatam it is said that the dvija who doesn't know how to perform Sandhya and does not perform it, he will be a shudra during his life and will reincarnate as a dog. Similar quotes can be found in every purana or smriti. I always ask people "how is your sandhya vandana going?" when they brag about being brahmins, even my own uncles..

What's the point of this? You go around asking your "uncles" "how their Sandhya Vandhanam is going"? What purpose does this solve?

In all fairness, you were trying to make a point about many Hindus who are forgetting their traditions and that irks you. Fine. However, there's a way to put it in perspective; specifically, your perspective.

And, you said you "believe jesus never existed and is "irrelevant". I completely agree with the irrelevant part, yet, the way you, and some other so-called "Hindus" on this forum, denigrated Sai Baba is shameful to the say the least. So, in contrast, you did put that jesus on a pedestal. That was my point. You needn't glorify that rotten persona non-grata jesus in order to put him on a pedestal.

You also said:

but for a westerner the chanting is not too bad. I am not posting a thread about them, because I don't care enough about them. But I care about Hindus forgetting their traditions.

Since we're talking about traditions, how come this blatant transgression of mlecchas chanting the Vedas gets no mention? You don't care about "them"? Whom? Those people or the traditions? Let us be equitable in our criticism is my point. A Brahmin forgetting to do his SandhyaVandhanam is nothing compared to the desecration of the Vedas in that video. And, that is just a small example.

Yes, there are many so-called Brahmins who probably eat meat, drink, and sleep with prostitutes. However, those are exceptions. And, it is fashionable, nowadays, in India and elsewhere, to use these exceptions to denigrate the whole group. That is what I took umbrage to.

Furthermore, you also stated:

Why don't you contact the people on the video you have posted? What can I do about it?

Why should I contact them? I am not the one complaining about Brahmins losing their traditions and values. Furthermore, that video was sent to me by a friend and we had a good laugh; as always!

Last but not least, you said:

Did I make you angry with my post? You are not the first person I have made angry when I said something about Sandhya Vandana. It seems to be a sensitive topic. I have no idea why.

I'm not "angry" with you. Your post was dense so I posted a reply. The funny thing is, you presume to lump Brahmins into one group due to your limited exposure to them. My experience has been diametrically opposed to yours. Who's right? The lesson here is none of us is right or wrong. We can only focus on our strengths and progress towards learning more about Tat.

Peace.

[Sahasranama]

I did not put all brahmins under one lump. I was specifically talking about the culture here in the Netherlands. I am quite aware that there are many brahmins who are still following the tradition of Sandhya Vandana, especially a lot of south Indians. Here in the Netherlands, the people I have talked to who were particular about Sandhya were an Indian priest, a kannadiga guy and one of my nephews who goes to India a lot. I am not saying these are all people who are doing Sandhya in this country, but among a lot of Surinam Hindus who are now living in the Netherlands, this tradition is becomming unimportant. In my opinion upanayana sanskaar and sandhya are linked (technically not an opinion, but a fact), but a lot of Hindus here in my country don't want to hear about it.

What's the point of this? You go around asking your "uncles" "how their Sandhya Vandhanam is going"? What purpose does this solve?

I understand that you might be confused after reading that, that's because you don't know my uncles. They sometimes come around and start talking "I am real brahmin," "I am a real brahmin," sometimes they can go for hours like this. When I ask them about Sandhya Vandana they will become quiet which gives me some peace of mind.

And, you said you "believe jesus never existed and is "irrelevant". I completely agree with the irrelevant part, yet, the way you, and some other so-called "Hindus" on this forum, denigrated Sai Baba is shameful to the say the least. So, in contrast, you did put that jesus on a pedestal. That was my point. You needn't glorify that rotten persona non-grata jesus in order to put him on a pedestal.

Since you are are saying that I am putting Jesus on a pedestal considering him to be irrelevant and a fairy tale, what would you say, in contrast, of the person who wrote the following statements about Christ?

Jesus was a Karana-janma, a Master bom with a purpose, the mission of restoring love, charity and compassion. He had no attachment to the self, nor paid any heed to joy or sorrow, loss or gain. He had a heart that responded to the call of anguish. He went about the land preaching the lesson of love. His life was a libation for the upliftment of humanity... He renounced the ego, which is the toughest thing to get rid of. Honour Him for these. He willingly sacrificed the desires with which the body torments man. This sacrifice is greater than the sacrifice of the body under duress... The birthday of Jesus must be celebrated by all mankind, for such 'Karana-Janmas' (Masters born with a purpose) belong to the whole human race. They should not be confined to a single country or community...when asked by people who He was. He could reply: 'I and my Father are One'. Jesus tried to teach the Fatherhood of God and Brotherhood of man. Tradition-minded and egoistic men considered Jesus a false prophet and they tried by every means to thwart His mission. Jesus, however, did not waver. Faced with opposition. He continued to be an example of living truth, and tried to purify the society.

The funny thing is, you presume to lump Brahmins into one group due to your limited exposure to them. My experience has been diametrically opposed to yours.

I was just sharing my experience in my country and the attitude of the younger generations. I am only glad to hear that your experience is diametrically opposed to mine.

[TatTvamAsi]

Originally Posted by Sahasranama

I did not put all brahmins under one lump. I was specifically talking about the culture here in the Netherlands. I am quite aware that there are many brahmins who are still following the tradition of Sandhya Vandana, especially a lot of south Indians. Here in the Netherlands, the people I have talked to who were particular about Sandhya were an Indian priest, a kannadiga guy and one of my nephews who goes to India a lot. I am not saying these are all people who are doing Sandhya in this country, but among a lot of Surinam Hindus who are now living in the Netherlands, this tradition is becomming unimportant. In my opinion upanayana sanskaar and sandhya are linked (technically not an opinion, but a fact), but a lot of Hindus here in my country don't want to hear about it.

Now that you've clarified your point and made it specific to your experience, that is absolutely fine.

Originally Posted by Sahasranama

I understand that you might be confused after reading that, that's because you don't know my uncles. They sometimes come around and start talking "I am real brahmin," "I am a real brahmin," sometimes they can go for hours like this. When I ask them about Sandhya Vandana they will become quiet.

That is hilarious! I'd be quite amused if that was the case as well.

Originally Posted by Sahasranama

Since you are are saying that I am putting Jesus on a pedestal considering him to be irrelevant and a fairy tale, what would you say, in contrast, of the person who wrote the following statements about Christ?

Jesus was a Karana-janma, a Master bom with a purpose, the mission of restoring love, charity and compassion. He had no attachment to the self, nor paid any heed to joy or sorrow, loss or gain. He had a heart that responded to the call of anguish. He went about the land preaching the lesson of love. His life was a libation for the upliftment of humanity... He renounced the ego, which is the toughest thing to get rid of. Honour Him for these. He willingly sacrificed the desires with which the body torments man. This sacrifice is greater than the sacrifice of the body under duress... The birthday of Jesus must be celebrated by all mankind, for such 'Karana-Janmas' (Masters born with a purpose) belong to the whole human race. They should not be confined to a single country or community...when asked by people who He was. He could reply: 'I and my Father are One'. Jesus tried to teach the Fatherhood of God and Brotherhood of man. Tradition-minded and egoistic men considered Jesus a false prophet and they tried by every means to thwart His mission. Jesus, however, did not waver. Faced with opposition. He continued to be an example of living truth, and tried to purify the society.

[color=Black][font=Verdana]

Well, Sri Ramana Maharishi said, "The Bible and the Gita are the same!" That makes me the idiot, not Sri Ramana. However, my personal experiences with christians and the history of christianity, apart from the fact that jesus studied and lived in India and made no mention of it (no credit given, as usual), formed my opinion of him as a charlatan. In high school, I was at the receiving end of conversion attempts by these fundamentalist christians and I too would say jesus was an "englightened man like Buddha but nothing more" and it used to grate on their nerves. The end result was they left me alone and that was my goal! However, I still believe, no matter how erroneous it may actually be, that jesus was a charlatan; and mary's affair was one hell of a mistake the world has had to pay for!

Originally Posted by Sahasranama

I was just sharing my experience in my country and the attitude of the younger generations. I am only glad to hear that your experience is diametrically opposed to mine.

Hey, we're all here to learn, not just about SD but about each other as well.

[saidevo]

Kudos to both Sahasranama and TatTvamAsi,
for showing the spirit of understanding, responsibility, mutual accommodation and reconciliation,
in the true spirit of the following Rg Veda verses:

saM gachChadhvaM saM vadadhvaM saM vo manAMsi jAnatAm |
devA bhAgaM yathA pUrve saMjAnAnA upAsate || 10.191.02 ||
samAno mantraH samitiH samAnI samAnaM manaH saha chittameShAm |
samAnaM mantramabhi mantraye vaH samAnena vo haviShA juhomi || 10.191.03 ||
samAnI va AkUtiH samAnA hR^idayAni vaH |
samAnamastu vo mano yathA vaH susahAsati || 10.191.04 ||

2 Assemble, speak together: let your minds be all of one accord, As ancient Gods unanimous sit down to their appointed share.

3 The place is common, common the assembly, common the mind, so be their thought united. A common purpose do I lay before you, and worship with your general oblation.

4 One and the same be your resolve, and be your minds of one accord. United be the thoughts of all that all may happily agree.

About Jesus, I often wonder, if there is any more historical reality to him than what is there to Santa Claus!

[yajvan]

hariḥ oṁ
~~~~~~

namasté TTA

Originally Posted by TatTvamAsi

Hey, we're all here to learn, not just about SD but about each other as well.

brilliant!


praṇām