A prayer for muslim brothers and sisters...

[SethDrebitko]

So while Hinduism does not so much agree that members of other religions are on the right path we do believe they are entitled to express their wrong opinions. For this reason I am very disappointed that a NewYork State politician has publicly stated his promise to use the eminent domain laws of America to seize land from muslims to stop them from building mosques in NY City.

Steps off soap box Thanks all for listening to that I just wanted to share my disgust with the blatant racism/religious persecution.

[Believer]

You remind me of this baby ant which went wandering around. An anteater saw it, befriended it and asked to be taken to her home and be introduced to her parents. The innocent little baby ant brought it their anthill and asked her mother if they could keep it. And, that my friend, was when the whole anthill got sucked by this new found friend.

You are living in this make believe, utopian world where the words racism and persecution are used for people who least deserve it. Did you know that you cannot build anything but a Wahabi Sunni mosque in Saudi Arabia. If a non-muslim died there, they would fly your little a$$ out of there as they don't want their holy land defiled by the burial/cremation of a kafir. Most of the other muslim countires would do the same. And you weep for them and want to offer prayers. Grow up and get REAL.

[sanjaya]

Yeah...I'm not sure what to do here. On the one hand we don't want to start becoming like our enemies (and make no mistake, Muslims have declared themselves our enemies whether we like it or not). Even if the Muslims persecute Hindus, we don't want to likewise support religious persecution. But on the other hand, Islam is much like a disease, and will consume the rest of the world if allowed to grow unchecked. Even if we do support this politician's policies, there is one thing that separates Hindus from Muslims: we don't go around killing people that we disagree with.

However, I would point out that Christian American politicians don't make much better allies than Muslims. This guy might be trying to use legal loopholes to get rid of mosques in America. But neighborhood organizations will use similar techniques to block the building of Hindu temples when it doesn't suit them. I don't want to allow Islam to spread, but I'm not sure I like the Christians who are fighting against them either.

[sm78]

Originally Posted by SethDrebitko

So while Hinduism does not so much agree that members of other religions are on the right path we do believe they are entitled to express their wrong opinions. For this reason I am very disappointed that a NewYork State politician has publicly stated his promise to use the eminent domain laws of America to seize land from muslims to stop them from building mosques in NY City.

Steps off soap box Thanks all for listening to that I just wanted to share my disgust with the blatant racism/religious persecution.

This will be a good thing if they could declare that Islam is an enemy to the US and they are willing to use power to contain the spread of this doctrine on american soil (like they did for communists)...otherwise the half hearted hypocritical measure will backfire in a democracy and voices like yours will soon overwhelm the nation...

Btw hindusim is a name given by foreigners to a collection of quite a vast set of beliefts and traditions many of which don't agree with one another on all aspects ... so question of questioning other's belief does not arise, as long it is another man's business. This is not true for supramacist and millitant dogmas in guise of religion like Islam since their business is about everyone else's freedom, independence and safety. A nation has perfect right to protect itself against such fundamentalist millitantism, provided it makes this intent clear.

West is too afraid to criticize Islam (except the crackpot rightwingers who themselves are no better)...yet it puts up these containing measures of banning the scarf or preventing a mosque. Till west gives up its own crackpot religious influence completely and can criticize Islam from a pure humanist standpoint, this is a loosing battle.

[sm78]

Originally Posted by sanjaya

Yeah...I'm not sure what to do here. On the one hand we don't want to start becoming like our enemies (and make no mistake, Muslims have declared themselves our enemies whether we like it or not). Even if the Muslims persecute Hindus, we don't want to likewise support religious persecution. But on the other hand, Islam is much like a disease, and will consume the rest of the world if allowed to grow unchecked. Even if we do support this politician's policies, there is one thing that separates Hindus from Muslims: we don't go around killing people that we disagree with.

However, I would point out that Christian American politicians don't make much better allies than Muslims. This guy might be trying to use legal loopholes to get rid of mosques in America. But neighborhood organizations will use similar techniques to block the building of Hindu temples when it doesn't suit them. I don't want to allow Islam to spread, but I'm not sure I like the Christians who are fighting against them either.

For your information, when one has been persecuted and attacked, dharma gives full right to inflict the same on the opponent. This is the basis of dharma yuddha and anything else is adharma. But never attack first, never persecute first, even never hold any intent of harming others in anyway...that's all. But once war has been declared by the enemy and attack has been made, war has to be faught in the most pragmatic way to bring it to quick conclusion and victory, and victory is the sole aim in the war.

You are right the spread of Islam cannot be stopped by such illeagal means and this becomes a religious persecution which can then be extended over any other religion which does not suit america's christian beliefs. When dealing with religion one necessarily needs to take a non religious standpoint, and paramount danger of Islam is most felt when one takes an unbiased humanist standpoint...not hindu, buddhist or christian.

[Eastern Mind]

Vannakkam:

In general much of the bible west has no clue at all about other religions. There is only 'Other than Christian". A Hindu temple in Hamilton Canada was lit by arsonists right after 9-11, which illustrates this.

In my city a study was done by the local university on the word 'Paki' (a very derogatory term here) and how it was universally applied because of skin color alone. The study was done by a survey in public places where 'Paki' looking people were stopped and questioned as to country of origin, or parent's country of origin. It turned out 3% were from Pakistan. The rest were from India, Fiji, Guyana, Trinidad, South Africa, Afghanistan, and even many from the middle east. I say this just to point out how misunderstood the immigrant community is.

As far as the two religions go, most people have no idea how exclusivist, and power hungry Islam is, and similarly have no idea of the depth of Hinduism. In the eyes of average Joe, they're almost like other Christian denominations like Lutheran or Presbyterian.

Hindu temples have had trouble rezoning land before because of racism, but usually land is found, and some sort of agreements with the neighbours are signed. There are also bylaws in some cities that Hindus and others have to adapt to such as parking lot size compared to size of building, time constraints on noise etc. I would be all for the mosque if I KNEW that it would set a precedent for other buildings, but I don't know that.

Another point is that the vast majority of Muslims living in the west are here for a reason, and one main one is to escape the totalitarianism of the home country, so the Islamic community here in general is more peaceful. The children are raised in a secular society and see the advantages to that.

My city is home to the first North American mosque. For your interest: http://muslim-canada.org/alrashidmosque.html

Aum Namasivaya

[Believer]

Geert Wilders, Dutch Parliament. Speech on Islam in Europe

Geert Wilders is a Dutch Member of Parliament.
In a generation or two, the US will ask itself: Who lost Europe ?'
Here is the speech of Geert Wilders, Chairman, Party for Freedom, the Netherlands , at the Four Seasons, New York , introducing an Alliance of Patriots and announcing the Facing Jihad Conference in Jerusalem .
Dear friends,

Thank you very much for inviting me.

I come to America with a mission. All is not well in the old world. There is a tremendous danger looming, and it is very difficult to be optimistic. We might be in the final stages of the Islamization of Europe. This not only is a clear and present danger to the future of Europe itself, it is a threat to America and the sheer survival of the West. The United States as the last bastion of Western civilization, facing an Islamic Europe.

First I will describe the situation on the ground in Europe . Then, I will say a few things about Islam. To close I will tell you about a meeting in Jerusalem .

The Europe you know is changing.

You have probably seen the landmarks. But in all of these cities, sometimes a few blocks away from your tourist destination, there is another world. It is the world of the parallel society created by Muslim mass-migration.

All throughout Europe a new reality is rising: entire Muslim neighborhoods where very few indigenous people reside or are even seen. And if they are, they might regret it. This goes for the police as well. It's the world of head scarves, where women walk around in figureless tents, with baby strollers and a group of children. Their husbands, or slaveholders if you prefer, walk three steps ahead. With mosques on many street corners. The shops have signs you and I cannot read. You will be hard-pressed to find any economic activity. These are Muslim ghettos controlled by religious fanatics. These are Muslim neighborhoods, and they are mushrooming in every city across Europe . These are the building-blocks for territorial control of increasingly larger portions of Europe , street by street, neighborhood by neighborhood, city by city.

There are now thousands of mosques throughout Europe . With larger congregations than there are in churches. And in every European city there are plans to build super-mosques that will dwarf every church in the region. Clearly, the signal is: we rule.

Many European cities are already one-quarter Muslim: just take Amsterdam , Marseille and Malmo in Sweden . In many cities the majority of the under-18 population is Muslim. Paris is now surrounded by a ring of Muslim neighborhoods. Mohammed is the most popular name among boys in many cities.

In some elementary schools in Amsterdam the farm can no longer be mentioned, because that would also mean mentioning the pig, and that would be an insult to Muslims.

Many state schools in Belgium and Denmark only serve halal food to all pupils. In once-tolerant Amsterdam gays are beaten up almost exclusively by Muslims. Non-Muslim women routinely hear 'whore, whore'. Satellite dishes are not pointed to local TV stations, but to stations in the country of origin.

In France school teachers are advised to avoid authors deemed offensive to Muslims, including Voltaire and Diderot; the same is increasingly true of Darwin . The history of the Holocaust can no longer be taught because of Muslim sensitivity.

In England sharia courts are now officially part of the British legal system. Many neighborhoods in France are no-go areas for women without head scarves. Last week a man almost died after being beaten up by Muslims in Brussels , because he was drinking during the Ramadan.

Jews are fleeing France in record numbers, on the run for the worst wave of anti-Semitism since World War II. French is now commonly spoken on the streets of Tel Aviv and Netanya , Israel . I could go on forever with stories like this. Stories about Islamization.

A total of fifty-four million Muslims now live in Europe . San Diego University recently calculated that a staggering 25 percent of the population in Europe will be Muslim just 12 years from now. Bernhard Lewis has predicted a Muslim majority by the end of this century.

Now these are just numbers. And the numbers would not be threatening if the Muslim-immigrants had a strong desire to assimilate. But there are few signs of that. The Pew Research Center reported that half of French Muslims see their loyalty to Islam as greater than their loyalty to France . One-third of French Muslims do not object to suicide attacks. The British Centre for Social Cohesion reported that one-third of British Muslim students are in favor of a worldwide caliphate. Muslims demand what they call 'respect'. And this is how we give them respect. We have Muslim official state holidays.

The Christian-Democratic attorney general is willing to accept sharia in the Netherlands if there is a Muslim majority. We have cabinet members with passports from Morocco and Turkey .

Muslim demands are supported by unlawful behavior, ranging from petty crimes and random violence, for example against ambulance workers and bus drivers, to small-scale riots. Paris has seen its uprising in the low-income suburbs, the banlieus. I call the perpetrators 'settlers'. Because that is what they are. They do not come to integrate into our societies; they come to integrate our society into their Dar-al-Islam. Therefore, they are settlers.

Much of this street violence I mentioned is directed exclusively against non-Muslims, forcing many native people to leave their neighborhoods, their cities, their countries. Moreover, Muslims are now a swing vote not to be ignored.

The second thing you need to know is the importance of Mohammed the prophet. His behavior is an example to all Muslims and cannot be criticized. Now, if Mohammed had been a man of peace, let us say like Ghandi and Mother Theresa wrapped in one, there would be no problem. But Mohammed was a warlord, a mass murderer, a pedophile, and had several marriages - at the same time. Islamic tradition tells us how he fought in battles, how he had his enemies murdered and even had prisoners of war executed. Mohammed himself slaughtered the Jewish tribe of Banu Qurayza. If it is good for Islam, it is good. If it is bad for Islam, it is bad.

Let no one fool you about Islam being a religion. Sure, it has a god, and a here-after, and 72 virgins. But in its essence Islam is a political ideology. It is a system that lays down detailed rules for society and the life of every person. Islam wants to dictate every aspect of life. Islam means 'submission'. Islam is not compatible with freedom and democracy, because what it strives for is sharia. If you want to compare Islam to anything, compare it to communism or national-socialism, these are all totalitarian ideologies.

Now you know why Winston Churchill called Islam 'the most retrograde force in the world', and why he compared Mein Kampf to the Quran. The public has wholeheartedly accepted the Palestinian narrative, and sees Israel as the aggressor. I have lived in this country and visited it dozens of times. I support Israel . First, because it is the Jewish homeland after two thousand years of exile up to and including Auschwitz, second because it is a democracy, and third because Israel is our first line of defense.

This tiny country is situated on the fault line of jihad, frustrating Islam's territorial advance. Israel is facing the front lines of jihad, like Kashmir, Kosovo, the Philippines , Southern Thailand, Darfur in Sudan , Lebanon , and Aceh in Indonesia . Israel is simply in the way. The same way West-Berlin was during the Cold War.

The war against Israel is not a war against Israel . It is a war against the West. It is jihad. Israel is simply receiving the blows that are meant for all of us. If there would have been no Israel , Islamic imperialism would have found other venues to release its energy and its desire for conquest. Thanks to Israeli parents who send their children to the army and lay awake at night, parents in Europe and America can sleep well and dream, unaware of the dangers looming.

Many in Europe argue in favor of abandoning Israel in order to address the grievances of our Muslim minorities. But if Israel were, God forbid, to go down, it would not bring any solace to the West It would not mean our Muslim minorities would all of a sudden change their behavior, and accept our values. On the contrary, the end of Israel would give enormous encouragement to the forces of Islam. They would, and rightly so, see the demise of Israel as proof that the West is weak, and doomed. The end of Israel would not mean the end of our problems with Islam, but only the beginning. It would mean the start of the final battle for world domination. If they can get Israel , they can get everything. So-called journalists volunteer to label any and all critics of Islamization as a 'right-wing extremists' or 'racists'. In my country, the Netherlands , 60 percent of the population now sees the mass immigration of Muslims as the number one policy mistake since World War II. And another 60 percent sees Islam as the biggest threat. Yet there is a greater danger than terrorist attacks, the scenario of America as the last man standing. The lights may go out in Europe faster than you can imagine. An Islamic Europe means a Europe without freedom and democracy, an economic wasteland, an intellectual nightmare, and a loss of military might for America - as its allies will turn into enemies, enemies with atomic bombs. With an Islamic Europe, it would be up to America alone to preserve the heritage of Rome , Athens and Jerusalem .

Dear friends, liberty is the most precious of gifts. My generation never had to fight for this freedom, it was offered to us on a silver platter, by people who fought for it with their lives. All throughout Europe , American cemeteries remind us of the young boys who never made it home, and whose memory we cherish. My generation does not own this freedom; we are merely its custodians. We can only hand over this hard won liberty to Europe 's children in the same state in which it was offered to us. We cannot strike a deal with mullahs and imams. Future generations would never forgive us. We cannot squander our liberties. We simply do not have the right to do so.

We have to take the necessary action now to stop this Islamic stupidity from destroying the free world that we know.

[Believer]

Prime Minister John Howard - Australia

Muslims who want to live under Islamic Sharia law were told on Wednesday to get out of Australia , as the government targeted radicals in a bid to head off potential terror attacks.

Separately, Howard angered some Australian Muslims on Wednesday by saying he supported spy agencies monitoring the nation's mosques. Quote: 'IMMIGRANTS, NOT AUSTRALIANS, MUST ADAPT. Take It Or Leave It. I am tired of this nation worrying about whether we are offending some individual or their culture. Since the terrorist attacks on Bali , we have experienced a surge in patriotism by the majority of Australians.'

'This culture has been developed over two centuries of struggles, trials and victories by millions of men and women who have sought freedom'

'We speak mainly ENGLISH, not Spanish, Lebanese, Arabic, Chinese, Japanese, Russian, or any other language. Therefore, if you wish to become part of our society . Learn the language!'

'Most Australians believe in God. This is not some Christian, right wing, political push, but a fact, because Christian men and women, on Christian principles, founded this nation, and this is clearly documented. It is certainly appropriate to display it on the walls of our schools. If God offends you, then I suggest you consider another part of the world as your new home, because God is part of our culture.'

'We will accept your beliefs, and will not question why. All we ask is that you accept ours, and live in harmony and peaceful enjoyment with us.'

'This is OUR COUNTRY, OUR LAND, and OUR LIFESTYLE, and we will allow you every opportunity to enjoy all this. But once you are done complaining, whining, and griping about Our Flag, Our Pledge, Our Christian beliefs, or Our Way of Life, I highly encourage you take advantage of one other great Australian freedom,

'THE RIGHT TO LEAVE'.'

'If you aren't happy here then LEAVE. We didn't force you to come here. You asked to be here. So accept the country YOU accepted.'

[SethDrebitko]

Believer, I am sorry that you harbor so much anger towards the muslim community as a whole. They may be misguided in their walk towards God but many of them are truly wonderful people. I know many who have moved from their native countries , but probably more who have converted.

While we are more than permitted to retaliate in kind with violence when piece fails, we should not be waging our wars over Hinduism. Lets focus on trying to wage tolerance and goodwill in the name of Hinduism.

Muslims are gaining power in the west because they work together to help one another grow as a community while we strangle each other to death. We can combat this by trying to strengthen and build up our Hindu brothers and sisters together.

Back on topic though; these people are hateful unwavering individuals who would not just oppose islamic growth but Hindu as well, and as such should not be encouraged.
No one deserves to be oppressed.

[Believer]

You are good at labeling people. "Pin the donkey" must have been your favorite game when you were little.

Bhagwad Gita 2.3:

"Do not yield to this degrading impotence. It does not become you. Give up such petty weakness of heart and arise."

There are people who deserve compassion and understanding and then there are those who give it to you "in your face". You have to learn to distinguish between them. A mosque so close to Ground Zero is an insult to America and abuse of the freedom that this great nation provides to its citizens, even to the ones who intend to harm her. The whole idea shows gross insensitivity to the majority of the population. Get up and grow a spine. It is easy to be a pacifist. All you have to do is NOTHING.