How do you view the Gods?

[Ao]

After studying the Upanishads, and after a long spiritual and philosophical journey, the Oneness of all and Brahman as the ultimate Self seems eminently reasonable to me. But I'm curious as to how others view the Gods? Is it beneficial to worship them? Where do they exist and do they interact with humanity? I recall that in the Upanishads it is mentioned a few times that the Gods do not like mortals to know about Brahman as it detracts from their worship.

Anyway, I know very little, and would like to hear about modern Hindu practices regarding the Gods.

Cheers!

[Riverwolf]

Well, to me, the Gods are guides and teachers. I worship them, even if I don't believe they literally exist, because they help provide a focal point for worship.

I believe in the overall Oneness spoken of in the Upanishads, as well. But the Gods are still part of my beliefs.

[Eastern Mind]

Vannakam Andrew: You will get many different answers for sure on this one.

Personally, I absolutely believe in the mystical reality of God and Gods. I separate Siva from Ganesha and Murugan. Siva is Boss God, and emanated Murugan and Ganesha as 'helpers' but each in their own right are Mahadevas, except their Godly dharmas are somewhat different than Siva's, Ganesha being in charge of worldly stuff, and Murugan being the God of yoga.

In a mystical sense, at a temple I believe God sees me 10 times more clearly than I see him, via the murthy. This is darshan. I have no doubts whatsoever. It is not myth or symbolic, it is interplane connection reality. I get in touch as do millions of Hindus on a daily basis in temples throughout India. There is no progress without bhakti towards Gods. As far as the other God like Krishna goes, I believe they are essentially same energy as Siva, but subtle differences make it so that others are more drawn to them. And yet I feel different energy in non-Saiva temples as well. The beauty of the vastness of all the sects.

This sense of 'feeling energy' within temples is clouded by intellect, and anava, so not all will feel it.

Aum Namasivaya

[NayaSurya]

Each of us will have a different answer to this because we are each at a precise point in our relationship with the Divine that is never quite the same as any other we meet.


Siva is Isvara to me...He is my husband...He is everything I see...and do not see...everything comes from him created in the heart...the Aham and then returns to him ...Maha.

I can see why the Divine would not want lowly human as myself to see the inner workings of the universe...as I have seen things which have nearly halted my spiritual progress because of the confusion it brought to this ignorant fool. It happens a lot lately.

I spent half a life time trying to see God, only to finally understand I was looking at Him all along.

The first time I realize that Siva...sits upon a throne with starry eyes that meditate wholey upon the universe.

Manifesting in billions of ways in my life...

He is my Father which watches over me...Visnu..the sustainer...the Devas and MahaDevas watch over every single Beloved piece of God...helping us along our way.

At first, this confused me...Visnu...Siva?? Aren't these beings equal? So I fall to my knees for each of them...not fully understanding that They are They. Each is a manifestation of the Divine Beloved Isvara...sent to help us move forward.

Every step, every single heart beat, these Divine Beings are with us, because we are, in reality, a very tiny piece cut from Him...just as They.

We are They..too.

I see Isvara in every single thing I see...like drops in the ocean all flowing towards the Beloved Ocean..lulal..

Each drop rushing forward, picking up bits of debris, purifying and purging ourselves...so that one day, hopefully we reach the Beloved again.

How do I view Isvara? How can I not?

Thank you for allowing me to think about this tonight. Sometimes in meditation I focus so wholey upon nothing...that I loose sight of the Something.<3

Om Guru Brahma, Om Guru Visnu, Om Guru Devo Maheshwara<3

[saidevo]

namaste Andrewoberg.

Although the oneness of all with Brahman is the ultimate message and main theme of the UpaniShads, you may notice that they also speak of manifest forms of that one God in a hierarchical set up. PurANas expand this hierarchy into a practical world of divine forces, with the TrimUrti at the head of the hierarchy and the devas, asuras and other celestial beings as the subjects under them.

• You would have noticed that in the UpaniShadic shAnti mantra, shAnti--peace, is invoked thrice. This is an indication of the three different forms the divine forces reside in.

It is believed that "trivaram satyam"--"that which is said thrice comes true". For emphasizing a point we repeat a thing thrice. In the court of law also, one who takes the witness stand says, "I shall speak the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth".

We chant shAnti thrice to emphasise our intense desire for peace. All obstacles, problems and sorrows originate from three sources.

‣ Adhidaivika: The unseen divine forces over which we have little or no control like earthquakes, floods, volcanic eruptions etc.

‣ Adhibhautika: The known factors around us like accidents, human contacts, pollution, crime etc.

‣ AdhyAtmika: We sincerely pray to the Lord that at least while we undertake special tasks or even in our daily lives, there are no problems or that, problems are minimised from the three sources written about above.

May peace alone prevail. Hence shAnti is chanted thrice.

It is chanted aloud the first time, addressing the unseen forces. It is chanted softer the second time, directed to our immediate surroundings and those around, and softest the last time as it is addressed to one's Self.

• Thus, the divine forces manifest in different forms by/from Brahman have three forms: Adhidaivika, Adhibhautika and AdhyAtmika. In one sense, even a jIvAtma--individual soul, has these three forms: the hidden forces of unmanifest karma, the known forces initiated by the mind, and the Self or Atman or Brahman as the ultimate reality inside.

Thus, in Hinduism, the Gods (Devas) and the Demons (asuras) don't reside in yonder celestial worlds but are ever present inside every being as positive and negative forms of forces/energy.

• When there is a divine system of hierarchy, the subjects who form the leaves of the tree should necessarily adhere to their sAmAnya--common, dharma in order that the Devas and Asuras who form the nodes can do their job of administering the HUGE community of jIvAtmas waiting to be born again, and also do the preparatory work for their rebirth, besides maintaining the samsAra--world process, of the earth. This is the reason it is said that the Devas do not like mortals to become more and more Self-Realized, because in that process, they would give up their yajnas and other Ashrama dharma.

• It follows then, that worship of Gods (Devas and other God forms), essentially amounts to an inward movement towards the Self. When the glory of the Gods is sung and yajnas--fire ceremonies, are performed, the hymns recited and the mantras chanted create positive vibrations and purify our mind. This effort of chitta-shuddhi is the first step that would lead us to the path of nivRtti--renunciation, wherein we seek to realize the Self through shravaNa, manana and nidhidhyAsanA.

Although the goal is Atma-anubhavam--experience of the Self, modern (and popular) worship practices in Hinduism are largely geared towards betterment of living conditions in the world life. Still, the very chanting of the name of a God, done with consistency, sincerity and devotion, does help the jIva to course-correct its path from the worldly to the spiritual and gradually lead it to a life of peacefulness.

[devotee]

Namaste Andrew,

After studying the Upanishads, and after a long spiritual and philosophical journey, the Oneness of all and Brahman as the ultimate Self seems eminently reasonable to me. But I'm curious as to how others view the Gods? Is it beneficial to worship them? Where do they exist and do they interact with humanity? I recall that in the Upanishads it is mentioned a few times that the Gods do not like mortals to know about Brahman as it detracts from their worship.

Anyway, I know very little, and would like to hear about modern Hindu practices regarding the Gods.

Good inputs are already there. I will add a bit from my side.

You should understand the meaning of the word, "existence" more clearly. It is not as easy as it looks. We take it for granted but if we contemplate deeper we would find that "existence" has only a relative meaning. If I have an image of "God" in my mind that I talk to and I love & he answers my prayers sometimes and doesn't some other times .... can we say that "that God exists" or that "that God doesn't exist" ? What shall be the litmus test ... the undoubtable proof which could tell me whether it exists or not. Does existence being in flesh & blood like we humans or what does it mean ?

Lord Krishna says in Bhagwad Gita, "I fix the devotion of the devotees to that form of Devatas that they want to worship for fulfilment of their worldly desires and those Devatas in turn fulfil their desires according to the rules decided by Me. They who worship these different forms of God actually worship me alone but their such worshipping is not the correct method."

Tulsidas Ji said, " Jaaki Rahi Bhaavana Jaisi, Prabhu Moorat dekhi tin taisi" ===> "A devotee sees the form of God that is in his mind".

God is One alone but has many forms as per devotees' requirements. You choose the form that suits you. Have no doubts, you cannot choose anything but God to worship as long as your intentions are right and you lead a pious life ... in fact, even if your intentions are not right & you don't lead a pious life ... it cannot be anyone but God as He alone is available for worshipping but that is a long & confusing story. Results can vary ... as the results depends upon your own karmas.

OM

[saidevo]

namaste everyone.

Andrewoberg asked in his OP:
"I'm curious as to how others view the Gods? Is it beneficial to worship them? ... would like to hear about modern Hindu practices regarding the Gods."

I happened to mention in post no.5 "modern (and popular) worship practices in Hinduism are largely geared towards betterment of living conditions in the world life."

As one thinks about it, it seems that the different forms of bhakti--devotion, with a possible order of superiority among them, are really there to commensurate the different spiritual levels and propensity of the jIvas. Let me try to explain it:

• When I pray for my own Ayur-Arogya-aishvarya--longevity-health-wealth, it would amount to the lowest form of bhakti centered around one's physical self. So long as I don't seek to ruin anyone, this is not an undesirable way of worship.

What I don't realize in this form of bhakti is that instead of invoking the spiritual powers of the Self by seeking an enhanced experience of its consciousness as my consciousness (or vice versa), I simply pray to its surface, invoking the divine forces for my own welfare in life. And I must know that depending on the sincerity of my prayers and subject to my own karma, my prayers will be answered.

• When I pray for the Ayur-Arogya-aishvarya of my kuTumba-bandhu-mitra--household-relatives-friends, my prayers are at a higher level, born out of my love and concern for my kith and kin. I know that I care for their welfare, the conditions of which are beyond my efforts, so I seek Ishvara-sahAyatvam--divine assistance.

Of course, I should also know that the betterment of their welfare is subject to their karma, and what I should really seek from Ishvara is to arm them with the courage and wisdom to face their life situations.

• When I get to a level of knowing that my personal welfare and that of the others around me can be prayed for, but are subject to our karma, my love expands to other humans and non-human living beings, so I seek to pray "loka samasta sukhino bhavantu"--"May all the world remain in happiness".

This universal prayer is at the heart of the Hindu yajnas and community worship. What I should know here is that this prayer is not just a courteous way to invoke God's blessings but a sincere wish: when the world around us is happy and harmonious, what scope is there for the problems of life?

• Now I reach a level where I need a permanent anchor for my priyam--love. I realize that the very purpose of my birth is to have an unchanging love towards someone who would never ever wrangle about or question my love; who would never ever leave me; and who could make me feel the reciprocal love. In other words, I realize that only Ishvara can fulfill these conditions for my love, so I start loving him/her in the form of my personal God. Once I do this, the plus and minus of this worldly life upset me less and less.

In this way of worship, I progress through different bhakti-bhavas--devotional frames of mind, defining my relationship with Ishvara as santa--neutral/passive, dAsya--servitude, sAkhya--friendship, vAtsalya--parental love, and mAdhurya--sweet, transcendental love. Such bhakti-rasas--devotional flavours, enable me to define and refine my bhakti and progress towards the nivRtti mArgam--path of renunciation.

Once shrI RAmA asked HanumAn, his eternal devotee, "How do you contemplate on Me?" "At the physical level, You are my Master and I am Your servant. At the mental level, I am a spark of thy Divine Self. At the Atmic level, You and I are one," said Hanuman.

• My inward journey by bhakti has a destination: the realization that the Self or Atman in me and Brahman are identical and that I must eventually return to, and merge with, my source. Once this desire sets in, I seek to pursue a path of nivRtti and accomplish my goal through shravaNa--reading and listening, manana--contemplation, and nidhidhyAsanA--profound and repeated meditation, and satsangha--company of wise men.

What would be the prayer of a jnAni who has reached this stage?

Adi Shankara prays thus in his stotra--hymn 'saundaryalaharI':

जपो जल्पः शिल्पं सकलमपि मुद्राविरचना
गतिः प्रादक्षिण्यक्रमणमशनाद्याहुतिविधिः ।

प्रणामस्संवेशस्सुखमखिलमात्मार्पणदृशा
सपर्यापर्यायस्तव भवतु यन्मे विलसितम् ॥ २७ ॥

japo jalpaH shilpaM sakalamapi mudrA-viracanA
gatiH prAdakShiNyakramaNamashanAdyAhutividhiH |
praNAmassaMveshassukhamakhilamAtmArpaNadR^ishA
saparyAparyAyastava bhavatu yanme vilasitam || 27 ||

"Let my every word be a prayer to Thee,
Every movement of my hands a ritual gesture to Thee,
Every step I take a circumambulation of Thy image,
Every morsel I eat a rite of sacrifice to Thee,
Every time I lay down a prostration at Thy feet;
Every act of personal pleasure and all else that I do,
Let it all be a form of worshiping Thee."

--Verse 27 of Shri Adi Shankara's 'saundaryalaharI'

[NayaSurya]

Adi Shankara prays thus in his stotra--hymn 'saundaryalaharI':

जपो जल्पः शिल्पं सकलमपि मुद्राविरचना
गतिः प्रादक्षिण्यक्रमणमशनाद्याहुतिविधिः ।

प्रणामस्संवेशस्सुखमखिलमात्मार्पणदृशा
सपर्यापर्यायस्तव भवतु यन्मे विलसितम् ॥ २७ ॥

japo jalpaH shilpaM sakalamapi mudrA-viracanA
gatiH prAdakShiNyakramaNamashanAdyAhutividhiH |
praNAmassaMveshassukhamakhilamAtmArpaNadR^ishA
saparyAparyAyastava bhavatu yanme vilasitam || 27 ||

"Let my every word be a prayer to Thee,
Every movement of my hands a ritual gesture to Thee,
Every step I take a circumambulation of Thy image,
Every morsel I eat a rite of sacrifice to Thee,
Every time I lay down a prostration at Thy feet;
Every act of personal pleasure and all else that I do,
Let it all be a form of worshiping Thee."

--Verse 27 of Shri Adi Shankara's 'saundaryalaharI'

Absolutely magnificent.

To live in this manner is bliss.

[Ganeshprasad]

Pranam

Strange this question and some off the answer even more somber.

I don�t think I can ever understand advaita.
God or gods are teachers there is a belief in them yet he can not exist literally or he is figment of our imagination and takes shape as per our desire wow!

Is it our na�ve understanding of advaita that kill off gods?

Why would Shankracharya write those verses if in final analysis there was no such image?
"Let my every word be a prayer to Thee,
Every movement of my hands a ritual gesture to Thee,
Every step I take a circumambulation of Thy image,
Every morsel I eat a rite of sacrifice to Thee,
Every time I lay down a prostration at Thy feet;
Every act of personal pleasure and all else that I do,
Let it all be a form of worshiping Thee."

--Verse 27 of Shri Adi Shankara's 'saundaryalaharI'
Why bhaja Govinda?

What was the need for him to establish temples?

This is what lord Krishna says
The ignorant ones, not knowing My supreme natures as the great Lord of all beings, disregard Me when I assume human form. (9.11)
　
But great souls, O Arjuna, who possess divine qualities (See 16.01-03) know Me as the (material and efficient) cause of creation and imperishable, and worship Me single-mindedly. (9.13)

Though I am eternal, imperishable, and the Lord of all beings; yet I (voluntarily) manifest by controlling My own material nature using My Yoga-Maya. (4.06)

I can not but laugh or even cry when someone in his/ her final analysis reading advaita, without really actually having any realisation kill off the Gods.

Jai Shree Krishna

[Riverwolf]

Pranam

Strange this question and some off the answer even more somber.

I don�t think I can ever understand advaita.
God or gods are teachers there is a belief in them yet he can not exist literally or he is figment of our imagination and takes shape as per our desire wow!

Is it our na�ve understanding of advaita that kill off gods?

Why would Shankracharya write those verses if in final analysis there was no such image?
"Let my every word be a prayer to Thee,
Every movement of my hands a ritual gesture to Thee,
Every step I take a circumambulation of Thy image,
Every morsel I eat a rite of sacrifice to Thee,
Every time I lay down a prostration at Thy feet;
Every act of personal pleasure and all else that I do,
Let it all be a form of worshiping Thee."

--Verse 27 of Shri Adi Shankara's 'saundaryalaharI'
Why bhaja Govinda?

What was the need for him to establish temples?

This is what lord Krishna says
The ignorant ones, not knowing My supreme natures as the great Lord of all beings, disregard Me when I assume human form. (9.11)
　
But great souls, O Arjuna, who possess divine qualities (See 16.01-03) know Me as the (material and efficient) cause of creation and imperishable, and worship Me single-mindedly. (9.13)

Though I am eternal, imperishable, and the Lord of all beings; yet I (voluntarily) manifest by controlling My own material nature using My Yoga-Maya. (4.06)

I can not but laugh or even cry when someone in his/ her final analysis reading advaita, without really actually having any realisation kill off the Gods.

Jai Shree Krishna

Who's killing off that which cannot be killed? How can someone even do that?

Though I follow advaita, I do worship God and gods. Existence just isn't important to me; maybe they exist, maybe they don't. It's just not important.

From what little I know of him, Adi Sankara seemed to know this; though he made popular advaita vedanta, he was still very devoted to God and gods.

The Bhagavad-Gita Dhyana says that it "showers the nectar of advaita," and yet its highest teaching is bhakti, which is also found in that Dhyana. Therefore, I believe that advaita without bhakti is meaningless, ESPECIALLY for those who have not achieved realization.

So, yes, whether or not God and gods actually exist isn't important to me, but I think and act as if they do.