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Question about Meat, Alcohol, and Sex

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  #41  
Old 19 June 2010, 01:25 PM
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Re: Question about Meat, Alcohol, and Sex

in respect to discussions about bhairava kali and alcohol i would like to mention a fact . in the eastern belt , specially bengal kali puja is not possible without alcohol .

suraa remains an important ingrediant of kali puja . a suraa-patra or wine bowl is placed in the lower right hand of the goddess as an offering . for those who dislike offering alcohol , an offering of coconut milk mixed with ginger juice and honey which has been kept in a brass bowl for some time is suggested instead . that is a substitute of suraa .

but most pujas have alcohol in their ceremonies . albeit ritually .
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  #42  
Old 19 June 2010, 01:45 PM
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Re: Question about Meat, Alcohol, and Sex

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Originally Posted by sambya View Post
in respect to discussions about bhairava kali and alcohol i would like to mention a fact . in the eastern belt , specially bengal kali puja is not possible without alcohol .

suraa remains an important ingrediant of kali puja . a suraa-patra or wine bowl is placed in the lower right hand of the goddess as an offering . for those who dislike offering alcohol , an offering of coconut milk mixed with ginger juice and honey which has been kept in a brass bowl for some time is suggested instead . that is a substitute of suraa .

but most pujas have alcohol in their ceremonies . albeit ritually .
Of course that just what i wrote, east, west, and in himalayan regions, wine and meat is more common for sacrifice than in the south. Substitutes are suboptimal. But you know we are the doom and gloom if we do so much as mention that this is a legitimate part of Hinduism.
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Old 19 June 2010, 02:12 PM
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Re: Question about Meat, Alcohol, and Sex

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Originally Posted by NayaSurya View Post
Oh and did say if I were to be given such things I would take without question. The only things which cause me to hesitate in such a way are white offerings because they usually have much milk content.

I have turned down sweet milk offering, because this vessel is severely allergic to it.
Now i cannot say that for myself, you never know, there could be stuff inside i wouldn´t even touch with a stick especially with these kashmir shaivaites and aghors From some people i would hesitate to take a cup of tea. One can get really sick gobbling down the wrong brew.
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  #44  
Old 19 June 2010, 03:20 PM
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Re: Question about Meat, Alcohol, and Sex

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Originally Posted by bp789 View Post
Okay, I was reading this article online about Hindus and Muslims in the US (I think) and how while they have no problem having sex, drinking, or doing drugs, if they see a fellow Hindu or Muslim eating beef or pork, then it's automatically blasphemy.

I was reading the comments of the article and it said apparently that it's not forbidden for Hindus to do stuff like that because ancient Indians had to eat beef for survival and it was considered a good food for Brahmins. Here's the link to the comments.

http://www.chicagoflame.com/home/ind...9-229c70a5c1e8

Now my parents are from a very conservative Hindu sect which forbids eating meat (onion and garlic too, but I don't really follow that lol), drinking alcohol, doing drugs, or pre-marital sex. I'm not going go do all that stuff if it isn't, but I'm pretty confused.
Namaste

A lot of discussion on the subject has taken place in other threads and in this thread. I think, there is no reason to be confused. I think, Eastern Mind and Devotee have offered well meaning advise. Eastern Mind, has also shown link to scripture.

Dharma shastra prohibits sura (alcohol) for brahmins and also advises against meat eating. Manu Smriti says that a land where gentle animals roam without fear is fit for performing sacrifices to Gods. Ahimsa is the keyword.

Vigyan Bhairava tantra teaches more than 100 methods for attaining Shiva and only one method involves sexual act. Sexual act is not the mainstay of Tantric methods. Even with the method involving sexual union, CONTROL and retention of semen is the key. The method, as in Vigyan Bhairava, involves constant remembrance of mantra/japa during the intercourse. That hardly is indicative of wild abandon. Some western devotees act more hindu than born hindus and become angry when this is pointed out. It is true that alcohol and meat is offered to kAli mA, but that does not, I think, constitute a general path. Neither does it indicate hedonism. Rather it indicates that when one offers meat and liquor to God, one is fully centered. This is just the opposite of craving. Finally, Tantrik path itself is not the full hinduism.

Although, Hinduism is actually not infected with prudishness of other religions, it is beyond doubt that indulgence with meat, alcohol, and sex is not recommended anywhere within hinduism.

Regarding sacrifice of 'Bull' and worship of 'Cow', I fail to understand why we have so much confusion? Indra-Agni-Rudra-Varuna etc. are called BULLS. OM is called a BULL. Ego is a Bull. Sun is said to be the Bull in the sky. Sacrifice is of the Ego and/or Mind in favour of the gentle word (Vac), which is Gau (Cow) and Gauri (Mother) gets her name from that. Similarly, the primeval mind, which expanded and became the world is called asva - horse - the fast moving. Sacrifice of that full mind led to this variegated Universe and sacrifice of that fragmented mind brings it back to the stable, termed as immutable ocean in Brihadaraynaka Upanishad.

Lastly, select that which makes you comfortable and without too much guilt. If your parents are vegetarians, it is, I think, unwise to adopt a contrary path.

Om Namah Shivaya
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Last edited by atanu : 19 June 2010 at 04:28 PM. Reason: grammar
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  #45  
Old 19 June 2010, 06:03 PM
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Re: Question about Meat, Alcohol, and Sex

Thanks Atanu, for clarifying that one !

Some people from west feel that exceptions make the rule ! The tantrik paths involving sex for religious aspirations is almost dead in Hinduism and nowhere in the past too it was ever popular. It was a practice which never got approval of the general populace among Hindus.

Can MahaHrada say he has seen such acts being realy performed in front of his eyes ? I can't say of the west but if it happens in India ... people involved in such acts whether Kashmir Shaivites or whatever, would find their place in Jail where they truly belong or if left for public to decide, would probably be killed.

Use of wine for worshipping goddess Kaali ... I have not seen wine being freely distributed for consumption for the devotees as Prasaadam in Kaali Puja. In our homes too we worship Kaali but we never offer alcohol to mother goddess. I have not been in Bengal during Puja but I have stayed and lived in Assam for a long time & I have not seen people offering wine to mother goddess and then distributing it freely. It might be symbolic though in some places. Nowhere in North India or in South India one can see use of Alcohol during Puja except in some less popular Bhairava temple in the western part of India ... but that is a rare example.

The animal sacrifice was prevalent in Shakti Puja but slowly it is also being replaced with sacrifices of some fruits or offering the animals without being killed. The reality is that great saints of these paths have not favoured indulging in such acts ... like killing of innocent animal or use of wine or sex (which is a clear no-no). For those who are new to Hinduism, let me tell them that the tantrik practice that MahaHrada mentions has very few followers today ... very few Hindus would like to associate with such practices ... may be MahaHrada is a rare one of those who practises it. But it is more of an exception & not a rule.

Getting some news from some places ... getting a few pictures from some places ... posting it and portryaing it that it is a regular practice within the society is not correct. You can get pornographic picture of child abuse by some Hindus too ... so shall we post the picture and say that Hindus favour child sexual abuse ? Hinduism had many practices which were actually exceptions in all times (never got the approval of general masses .... many such self-styled tantriks have been prosecuted & also lynched by public in India from time to time for their ignorant and illigal practices & I would advise people to remain extremely careful while dealing with them ... "tantrik" word itself is something to be careful about) and most of these have slowly died out. These practices never represented mainstream Hinduism. This is not what real Hinduism is ... this is not what the Hindus are proud of ... Kashmir Shaivism, even in moderated form, without alcohol & sex, has very few followers.

OM
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Last edited by devotee : 19 June 2010 at 06:15 PM.
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  #46  
Old 19 June 2010, 06:23 PM
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Re: Question about Meat, Alcohol, and Sex

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Originally Posted by devotee View Post
Thanks Atanu, for clarifying that one !

Some people from west feel that exceptions make the rule ! The tantrik paths involving sex for religious aspirations is almost dead in Hinduism and nowhere in the past too it was ever popular. It was a practice which never got approval of the general populace among Hindus.

Can MahaHrada say he has seen such acts being realy performed in front of his eyes ? I can't say of the west but if it happens in India ... people involved in such acts whether Kashmir Shaivites or otherwise would find their place in Jail where they truly belong.

Use of wine for worshipping goddess Kaali ... I have not seen wine being freely distributed for consumption for the devotees as Prasaadam in Kaali Puja. In our homes too we worship Kaali but we never offer alcohol to mother goddess. I have not been in Bengal during Puja but I have stayed and lived in Assam for a long time & I have not seen people offering wine to mother goddess and then distributing it freely. It might be symbolic though in some places. Nowhere in North India or in South India one can see use of Alcohol during Puja except in some less popular Bhairava temple in the western part of India ... but that is a rare example.

The animal sacrifice was prevalent in Shakti Puja but slowly it is also being replaced with sacrifices of some fruits or offering the animals without being killed. The reality is that great saints of these paths have not favoured such indulging in such acts ... like killing of innocent animal or use of wine or sex (which is a clear no-no). For those who are new to Hinduism, let me tell them that the tantrik practice that MahaHrada mentions has very few followers today ... very few Hindus would like to associate with such practices ... may be MahaHrada is a rare one of those who practises it. But it is more of an exception & not a rule.

Getting some news from some places ... getting a few pictures from some places ... posting it and portryaing it that it is a regular practice within the society is not correct. You can get pornographic picture of child abuse by some Hindus too ... so shall we post the picture and say that Hindus favour child sexual abuse ? Hinduism had many practices which were actually exceptions in all times (never got the approval of general masses .... many such self-styled tantriks have been prosecuted & also lynched by public in India from time to time for their ignorant and illigal practices & I would advise people to remain careful while dealing with them) and most of these have slowly died out. These practices never represented mainstream Hinduism. This is not what real Hinduism is ... this is not what the Hindus are proud of ... Kashmir Shaivism, even in moderated form, without alcohol & sex, has very few followers.

OM

Indra jatra, the festival where people drink the sacred prasad from the sveta bhairava murti at Hanuman dhoka in Nepal is attendend by the whole population, it is an important festival, also like i said before every household, and also the Goverment, and even the airlines and other companies, are offering pashu bali in Nepal at Dashain. Everybody of course eats the meat after the sacrifice.
Mahashivaratri is celebrated as a great festival by all nepalis and almost everybody traditionally uses intoxicants to celebrate, usually bhang, alcohol or charas and as i wrote the king has always donated a truckload of 500kg charas to the population and the sadhus that assemble at Pashupatinath temple for the occasion. These are not fringe practices every Hindu takes part in these celebrations. And as i wrote before keep me out of it i am a vegetarian and do not use drugs or alcohol or even have sex and stop your lies that I depend on second hand information. When i write here it is to defend the Dharma against its detractors and enemies that delight in spewing hate towards fellow Hindus and are on their knees in praise of abrahamic religions and their imposed victorian morals. If you get your head out of the backside of Mohammed and Jesus for a minute maybe you would not spent the rest of your life in self imposed darkness.
That you want to see innocent Sadhus, nepali Hindus or kashmir pandits, or bengal tantrics and others go to jail for the offence of offering wine, meat and pashu bali to the devi and for following difffernt custom and darshana than what you prefer does not astonish me, it fits you well. That you even speak of lynching innocents is just great, thanks for openly showing your love.

Last edited by MahaHrada : 19 June 2010 at 07:20 PM.
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  #47  
Old 19 June 2010, 06:52 PM
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Re: Question about Meat, Alcohol, and Sex

There is no question that meat eating, animal sacrifice, intoxication and sex were part of the vaidik, pauranik and tantrik dharma. Abstaining from these (vegetarianism, non alcoholism, celibacy) is a personal choise, like Manu said, "there is no wrong doing in eating meat, but abstaining from it has tremendous benefits."

The killing of a cow is a mahapapam and should never be done by hindus. In time of crisis though, even the wife of rishi vishvamitra ate the flesh of vasishta's cow and fed it to her children too.

Last edited by Sahasranama : 19 June 2010 at 07:04 PM.
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  #48  
Old 19 June 2010, 07:19 PM
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Re: Question about Meat, Alcohol, and Sex

Vannakkam all: This reminds me of my aunts' use of one line of biblical scripture to excuse her hidden imbibing. Funny thing was, because if her, I actually had one line of the Bible memorized at one time Timothy 6: 23 I think. Drink a little wine for thy stomach's sake. Something like that. Yet I heard the Lord's Prayer every day at school for 7 odd years, but never got past Our father Who Art...

I believe in the end it is up to each decide on their own take. Clearly we all have very different heritages within Sanatana Dharma we cling to. Mine, for example, is very small within the whole of Hinduism. The population of India outnumbers Nepal by 40 to 1. Then consider all the Mauritians, Malaysians, South Africans, Americans, Europeans, Fijians, Balinese etc. This would put Nepalese version of Hinduism around 2% of all Hindus.

If the diversity isn't pointed out, yes it could be a detriment to a newcomer's understanding. I remember British soldiers coming to Canada, and being bussed to my small rural Alberta town of 4000 people. This was their touch of Canada for 3 weeks. Can't imagine what they thought or said to their fellow countrymen when they went home. They missed the Rockies, Vancouver, Montreal and much much more. India and Hinduism is far more vast than the mindsets within Canada. We have 2 official languages, and India has 15 or 20 with at least a million speakers.

I am now drawn at least to befriend the Nepalis who come to our temple and love to take the ends of the pumpkin plants. A delicacy in Nepal, but not here. I was so surprised at how they went nuts when they saw it. Then I can get a better view from someone first hand. For me personally, other than living in Nepal for two years, it is the best way to understand it better.

I have no clue of Kashmiri Saivism or half the words given on here. My stance has always been that once you discover what works for you, stop at that. An analogy would be buying a house and then continuing to look at houses to buy.

Aum Namasivaya
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Old 19 June 2010, 07:39 PM
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Re: Question about Meat, Alcohol, and Sex

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Originally Posted by Eastern Mind View Post
Vannakkam all: This reminds me of my aunts' use of one line of biblical scripture to excuse her hidden imbibing. Funny thing was, because if her, I actually had one line of the Bible memorized at one time Timothy 6: 23 I think. Drink a little wine for thy stomach's sake. Something like that. Yet I heard the Lord's Prayer every day at school for 7 odd years, but never got past Our father Who Art...

I believe in the end it is up to each decide on their own take. Clearly we all have very different heritages within Sanatana Dharma we cling to. Mine, for example, is very small within the whole of Hinduism. The population of India outnumbers Nepal by 40 to 1. Then consider all the Mauritians, Malaysians, South Africans, Americans, Europeans, Fijians, Balinese etc. This would put Nepalese version of Hinduism around 2% of all Hindus.

If the diversity isn't pointed out, yes it could be a detriment to a newcomer's understanding. I remember British soldiers coming to Canada, and being bussed to my small rural Alberta town of 4000 people. This was their touch of Canada for 3 weeks. Can't imagine what they thought or said to their fellow countrymen when they went home. They missed the Rockies, Vancouver, Montreal and much much more. India and Hinduism is far more vast than the mindsets within Canada. We have 2 official languages, and India has 15 or 20 with at least a million speakers.

I am now drawn at least to befriend the Nepalis who come to our temple and love to take the ends of the pumpkin plants. A delicacy in Nepal, but not here. I was so surprised at how they went nuts when they saw it. Then I can get a better view from someone first hand. For me personally, other than living in Nepal for two years, it is the best way to understand it better.

I have no clue of Kashmiri Saivism or half the words given on here. My stance has always been that once you discover what works for you, stop at that. An analogy would be buying a house and then continuing to look at houses to buy.

Aum Namasivaya
Nepal is preserving a tradition that once was popular and widespread, all over India, due to the hate of the muslim and british rulers for what they considered "barbaric and immoral" practices a more sanitized version of Hinduism , vedanta and smarta closer to the likes of the foreign rulers was sponsered while other agamic and tantric darshanas were violently supressed and outlawed. Thats why some traditions only exist in smaller pocket and are less popular nowadays, probably if India gets rid of colonial western thought this can hopefully change. Instead of being proud of their heritage many Hindus are still ashamend if some aspect of Hinduism is considered "immoral" "polytheistic" "idolatry" or "barbaric" from the viewpoint of the monotheistic religions.
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Old 19 June 2010, 10:05 PM
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Re: Question about Meat, Alcohol, and Sex

Alcohol is used in some Hindu rituals. In Ampang, Malaysia, I saw a statue of the South Indian God Sanggili Karuppan (also called Karuppu Sami) at the back of a Muniswarar temple.



As you can see, some Guinness (which isn't even vegetarian) has been placed in front of Him as an offering. During the puja, I was very surprised to the see the priest light a beedi (a type of Indian cigarette) and place it in Sanggili Karuppan's mouth!
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