A Question on Caste

[sunyata07]

Namaste everybody,

This was a post for the Hot Topics forum, but I eventually reconsidered and decided I had insufficient knowledge of this issue on my part to post it in the said forum. This is as much a thread of inquiry of fact as it is your own personal opinion. If you have something of your own to share, please do, because I am interested in hearing from all sides.

I have a beginner's understanding of the caste system, so in advance, please forgive my lack of knowledge.

I recently expressed my (positive) opinion about a certain spiritual teacher on another discussion board, only to have someone come along and reply back: "She is not a Brahmin... why then do you respect a Shudra lady?" In those words. I'm not sure if this comment was made to me to incite a certain response, because I honestly don't know what to make of it. By that remark, are people of Shudra caste not to be respected in general? Or was it meant in context to this individual being a spiritual leader? Being inexperienced with attitudes to different castes within the system, it's hard for me to see this as being either a rather caustic remark made by a sceptic or a genuine expression of incredulity at my admiring this teacher.

What I want to know is: Is it a prerequisite for one to be from a Brahmin background to achieve recognition of spiritual enlightenment? I'm not being rhetorical here, I am genuinely inquiring about the nature of this self-realisation process. I know the Brahmin caste is traditionally made up of the holy men, priests and scholars, but does this hold universally across the caste system to this date? I made my opinions on this teacher based on her philosophy and her teachings which emphasised love, kindness and charity, not on her socioeconomic background. Whether or not she is truly and fully self-realised, from a non-religious perspective I consider her a very kind and loving person. This may be Western naivety on my part, but I see one's ethnic and social origins as being (ultimately) irrelevant with respect to spiritual awakening.

Can anyone share with me what they know of the general consensus about spiritual teachers? Or their own opinions of this matter?

Peace

[Eastern Mind]

Namaste: My Guru didn't believe in caste, and neither do I. Having said that, I have met many people who remain, from childhood conditioning, or choice, quite focused on caste. True also in the west. I face it as discrimination, or lack of understanding in several ways. Not only as a white (outcast) in some temple communities, but also in the west itself as class. Because I am a teacher, and am now semi-retired but look for less stressful jobs, some days I feel like not putting 'teacher' on my resume. Others assume I will be some pompous ____ always correcting their spelling or something like that. Respect of individual (caste if you must) should be determined by character and actions alone.

Sunyata: It's really too bad this happens, I feel the people who said what they said in condescending way are probably missing out on valid teachings. (I think Satay might ban such from these forums) We have a board member on a certain temple in my city that makes such a fuss about it that certain teachers (gurus) are simply not welcome in 'her' temple. How this person arrived at this level of hatred when surrounded by the beauty of scriptures and fellow Hindus is totally beyond my ability to understand. (Well, actually, she's just an immature soul needing some more evolution.) Its sad, but true. Fortunately, these types, generally speaking are from an older generation, and are being slowly replaced by more loving tolerant leaders.

Aum Namasivaya

[devotee]

Namaste Sunyata,

Originally Posted by sunyata07

I recently expressed my (positive) opinion about a certain spiritual teacher on another discussion board, only to have someone come along and reply back: "She is not a Brahmin... why then do you respect a Shudra lady?" In those words. I'm not sure if this comment was made to me to incite a certain response, because I honestly don't know what to make of it. By that remark, are people of Shudra caste not to be respected in general? Or was it meant in context to this individual being a spiritual leader?

It is said that God doesn't give everything to anyone. There is always some balancing act. The Hindus had one of the oldest & richest culture to be proud of .... they were living in a country which was given the best of seasons, fertile land etc. & that land was known as golden bird (for which many of expeditions took place) ... they had the spiritual knowledge which was unparalleled. So, to balance all these, God also gave them the scourge of Casteism in their minds !

My dear friend, there have been many saints who were born/raised in so called lower castes like Maharishi Parashar, Ved VyAs, Mahatma Vidur, Kabir, Sant Ravidas etc. etc. None of the incarnation of God was in Brahmin caste. Swami Vivekananda, Maharishi Yogananda & Maharishi Mahesh Yogi were Kayastha.

The most of the sufferings within Hindu Scoiety, imho, is due to this scourge of Casteism. The Government policy has only divide people more on caste lines in India than doing any good.

What I want to know is: Is it a prerequisite for one to be from a Brahmin background to achieve recognition of spiritual enlightenment?

Absolutely not ! If you have any doubts on what I say, please read VajrashUchikA Upanishad of SAm Veda.

I hope it helps.

OM

[sunyata07]

Thank you for your responses. It may sound silly that I did not know what the majority of opinions might have been on this board, but it's a comfort to read these sane answers. I thought perhaps I had missed something when I got that message on the other discussion board.

Eastern Mind: I think I understand what you mean by a Western system of caste. If it's not a divide of religious denominations (like the Protestants/Catholics divide I'm most familiar with in N. Ireland), then it's a divide of skin colour or social class. It's not as clear-cut as the caste system in India perhaps, but it exists all the same on a subtler scale in the West.

Devotee: Dear me, that was some scourge God gave to the Hindu people! Yes, I knew it wasn't possible that only a Brahmin could be enlightened! It made no sense to me when I considered how only the privileged few could strive for spiritual perfection and self-realisation. Would it not greatly undermine the purpose of karma and cultivating virtues in oneself? These responses have already taken some weight off my shoulders. Oh, and thank you for that reference. I appreciate it when someone gives me direction on where to look for answers in the scriptures.

[Ganeshprasad]

Pranam Devotee ji

Originally Posted by devotee

Namaste Sunyata,



... they had the spiritual knowledge which was unparalleled. So, to balance all these, God also gave them the scourge of Casteism in their minds !

care to quote any shastra or is this just an opinion?

My dear friend, there have been many saints who were born/raised in so called lower castes like Maharishi Parashar,

again any evidence please.

None of the incarnation of God was in Brahmin caste. OM

wrong, i can quote you two that did, Vaman Deva, ParsuRam and i am sure i can quote some more if you like but this will do for the moment.

God, the Brits have really screwed the Varna system and now we fall victim to it, i guess nothing happens without his wish

Jai Shree Krishna

[chandu_69]

Yes, I knew it wasn't possible that only a Brahmin could be enlightened!

That is Nonsense ofcourse.

It made no sense to me when I considered how only the privileged few could strive for spiritual perfection and self-realisation

It never made sense to me either till i read.

Gita :9.32
O son of Prtha, those who take shelter in Me, though they be of lower birth--women, vaisyas [merchants] and sudras [workers]--can attain the supreme destination.





And what is spiritual perfection?.Did you see any spiritually perfect person on this Board? or in real life?.

I only see confused people who think talking things they dont understand is spiritual perfection.Beware of the confused Souls who think Ignorance is Bliss and living a useless and unproductive Life makes them closer to God.

Please take time to read about different paths of Salvation From GITA.

[Eastern Mind]

Namaste all:

What makes sense to me? Is this not the only relevant question? Its in the New York Times. Its in the Guardian. Its in India Today. Does it make sense to me?

The Gita, the Koran, the Christian Bible, the Kural, the Tirumanthiram, the Vedas, Upanishada, The Prophet, the Complete Works of Sri Aurobindo... What makes sense to me? What does my gut tell me? What does my inner intelligence tell me? Do I really believe that?

or....

Why do I even need a brain to figure things out? Its all right there in the _______________ , anyway.

In my opinion, scripture is there to support, and add to what it is that you already believe, not to tell you what to believe. If you constantly quote scripture, or look to scripture, isn't that denying your own inner core, and what much scripture itself says. I think scripture has its place, but it is not the be all and end all.

"Lean on your own spine."
"Why ask me?" (You already know.)
"Its not in books, you fool!"
"Oh, oh. What have I been doing all these years? I don't even believe this stuff."

Aum Namasivaya

[devotee]

Namaste Ganeshprasad ji,

Originally Posted by Ganeshprasad

wrong, i can quote you two that did, Vaman Deva, ParsuRam and i am sure i can quote some more if you like but this will do for the moment.

Yes, you are right ! Thanks for the correction.

However, there is no other incarnation in Brahmana caste in Vishnu's ten incarnations (if you count Kalki then it would be three but that is yet to happen). All others were in other castes.

Regarding the castes of Maharishi Parashar, Ved VyAs & others mentioned by me, I think you can yourself find out.

OM

[Ganeshprasad]

Pranam devotee ji

Originally Posted by devotee

Namaste Ganeshprasad ji,

Regarding the castes of Maharishi Parashar, Ved VyAs & others mentioned by me, I think you can yourself find out.

OM

thank you but i think you need to back up what you quote, onus is on you to provide evidence and i am only interested on Parasar Muni

Jai Shree Krishna

[yajvan]

hariḥ oṁ
~~~~~~

Namasté Ganeshprasad & devotee

Originally Posted by Ganeshprasad

Pranam devotee ji
thank you but i think you need to back up what you quote, onus is on you to provide evidence and i am only interested on Parasar Muni
Jai Shree Krishna

I am not the final authority on this matter, but know of Parāśara.
He is Parāśara Śāktya, a ṛṣi we find in the ṛg ved; mantra-s 1.65 to 1.73 would be a good example of his 'seeing'. He too is the author of Bṛhat Parāśara Horāśāstra , a jyotiṣ handbook that far surpasses any other work I have seen.

His father was Śakti-muni. Śakti-muni's father was Vaśiṣṭa ( another great ṛṣi of the ṛg ved) ; and who was Vaśiṣṭa's father? It is said it is Brahmā.
If we do some looking around, we will find Vaśiṣṭa was a raj-purohita; raj रज + purohita पुरोहित : raja or of a king + purohita or priest, one placed foremost or in front i.e. holding a charge or commission; hence a brāhmaṇa.
What then of his grandson Parāśara? I will let you decide the appropriate varṇa.

praṇām