Rebirth - The Poll

[Singhi Kaya]

Rebirth is one of the key concept which differentiates Hindu Dharma from Abrahamism. Also rebirth is the common theme of almost all non-abrahamic traditions. Many ancient extinct civilizations did had concepts similar to re-incarnation and the linked rituals of anscestor worship. My belief is that concept of rebirth and karma is one of the fundamanetal pillars of any dharma inspite of the fact that they are not exactly same between the dharmic traditions. Karma and rebirth is the premise on which the dharmic foundation of life is based. Without it, dharma is close to materialism, knowledge gets replaced by blind faith, life becomes a jehad instead of oppertunity to enhance knowledge, reality becomes conditioned on an unknown fear or hope of an eternal "life" after death. A mere belief of ignorant mind becomes our saviour for the unknown. True materialism is a better and more sceintific and less desperate postion than non-rebirth, judgement day theology. Materialism rejects spirit and makes matter triumphant. Dharma accepts both but holds spirit to be eternal and matter to be transient. Judgement Day rejects both and makes man slave of an imaginative belief ~ and torment him both in life and death.

Rebirth here does not only mean the Hindu idea of being born in earth again and again till moksha. It can be being born in a heaven. perhaves Rebirth doesn't makes sense without Karma~so you can include that too. I define Rebirth = NOT (Judgement Day and eternal Heaven/Hell)

Under such circumstances, rebirth is the key foundation of any real dharma (need not be vedic or hinduism). I would like to know how many of think that real dharma and spirituality necessarily needs rebirth. This is indeed so outside Abrahimism~which introduced something quite new and alien to spiritualism~the concept of a Judgement Day. Much of the desperation in beliefs of these faiths comes from this one anit-spiritual tenant.

[Ram]

Since the vast majority of us are unfit to be liberated in a single birth, only a tyrant God can implement the judgement day. One or more births is not the concern. Even if a single soul is eternally punished that will show God in bad light, because the omnipotent God can certainly prevent that, whatever be the reason we are in samsara.

Without Karma theory, God cannot ensure both mercy and justice at the same time. If all get salvation, with or without merit, the entire creation has no meaning whatsoever, and there is nothing that prevents us from being wicked. Judgement Day is too harsh because have no opportunity to even realize the worldly trap. Many opportunities ensure that only meritorious souls get released, and in a longer run ensures it for all.

[satay]

I agree with Ram. It is unreasonable of an omni god to judge souls on merely 80, 90, 100 or max 120 years of life most of which a man sleeps!
Reincarnation is only logical otherwise god is nothing but a tyrant god.

I vote yes.

[ramkish42]

Tyrant god is a misnomer. Tyrant cannot be god by any means. In any religion God is not Tyrant.

Of course, judgement day does not syncs with many logical things which we see in day to day world. The basic problem with judgement day is on that day, souls that go heaven and hell goes overs, earth is over and out, now the question remains what next? If god is happy with heaven and hell, there is no purpose for creating earth and kind of objects. There is no guarantee again, that what prompted him to create all this might not reoccur. Hence, Logically we have to conclude after some time, earth can be recreated for the same purpose for which god has created it, and so does heaven and hell, and possibilities of souls in heaven and hell to come back to earth to serve the same purpose occurs.

Hence, though confusing, judgement day indirectly supports rebirth or reincarnation as terms in this thread.

I voted twice, one on poll saying yes, another adding reputation to Kaya for this idea (Kaya it is not effecting for I had already added reputation to you, hold on till I find some more good threads)

Jai shri krishna

[Znanna]

In my humble opinion, the notion of "rebirth" implies a linearality of time which is a presumption of some languages - instead, time is, I think, like HEr ... a singular multiplicity of synthesized dissolution Lives happen all at the same time, simultaneously, in other words, or perhaps outside of time all together, in that time and space are really irrelevant anyways; how else could one remember?




Namaste,
ZN

[nekozuki]

I think reincarnation exists for the simple fact it would be a waste to live one life. Wouldn't you think? And deep inside our hearts and brains we know it happens, just with some people it depends on their religion if they feel that hint of knowledge or not. It's pretty obvious, look at Mozart, he was playing music when he was three years old, children don't have the ability to understand music until they're seven years old. He could've learned music in a past life.

[willie]

The problem with rebirth is that unless the soul has some memory of the past, it has no way of knowing what to make up for or what to do different.

So if the soul have no knowledge of past lives then all pass bad actions have to be forgiven and the soul allowed the start fresh in the new body.

[yajvan]

Hari Om
~~~~~

Originally Posted by willie

The problem with rebirth is that unless the soul has some memory of the past, it has no way of knowing what to make up for or what to do different.

So if the soul have no knowledge of past lives then all pass bad actions have to be forgiven and the soul allowed the start fresh in the new body.

Namaste,
I have met 1 person in 50 yrs. that remembers a past life. what was astounding ( to me) is this individual remembered the in-between time before the next birth. Now, I had to coax the info from him, as he was humble about his experiences.

Also note from my studies of Jyotish, this can be seen in ones janma rasi charts and what is the length of time between births at the time of death. Research is being done on this from my friend Robert Koch and will present a book on this I assume in 2007 - 2008.

From a Jyotish perspective there are three parts to the individual - the body, shown by the Lagna in ones chart ( this goes away as it's material), then the mind from Chandra, and then the Atma. The mind ( manas) and the Atma ( atmakrara) goes from incarnation to the next. This is spelled out in the Upanishads - that is, the path to the next incarnation , some that come back some that take the Northen Path and do not come back.

[saidevo]

The nAdi reading also gives an idea of the previous birth. The entire nAdi reading of a person consists of several parts, of which the Last Birth kAndam is one. This kAndom gives the name, caste and place of the previous birth and briefs the past life. While the predictions of the nAdi reading is found to work in many cases, nobody is sure of the past life, because there is no means of verification.

In Tamilnadu, nAdi reading is done at the village Vaitheesvaran Koil, near Mayiladuturai (Mayavaram). This place is famous for the Vaitheesvaran Shiva temple where Shiva is manifest as the God of Healing. This temple is a famous Saiva stalam, sung by the Saivite poets.

Western occultists like C.W. Leadbeater were said to possess the power of clairvoyance and pre-vision. Interestingly, Leadbeater's book How Theosophy Came to Me starts with the words,

My first touch with anything that could definitely be called Theosophy was in the year 504 BC when I had the wonderful honour and pleasure of visiting the great philosopher Pythagorus. I had taken birth in one of the familes of the Eupatridae at Athens...

In the book The Autobiography of a Yogi, the great Babaji materializes a golden palance on the Himalayas for 24 hours to give diksha to his disciple Sri Lahiri Mahasaya, who had such a wish in one of his earlier lives. In the same book, Yoganananda's chela Kasi dies as a young boy, and was reborn shortly. Yogananda, using his yogic powers, traces the reborn boy to a house in the streets of Calcutta.

Our Puranas and Mahabharata trace the previous births of several of their persona. This is the reason they are known as puranas, the complete history of a human soul.

The concepts of karma and previous birth logically explain the disparities we find in the world, the nations, the society and even in the family.

[Sudarshan]

Originally Posted by willie

The problem with rebirth is that unless the soul has some memory of the past, it has no way of knowing what to make up for or what to do different.

So if the soul have no knowledge of past lives then all pass bad actions have to be forgiven and the soul allowed the start fresh in the new body.

Reincarnation is not myth, but a fact! I certainly know people who know and remember past lives! The knowledge of past lives is available to everyone, if you could reach out to that state. Even without explicit knowledge, it controls every aspect of your life. Have you ever said in your life - "Oh God, what harm I done to others to deserve all this?". That is the positive proof.

Dont listen to christian propaganda. A recent poll conducted in the United States showed that 23% of christians believe in rebirth. Even atheism has a better explanation to the spatio temporal differences we see around us, than life without rebirth.