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Thread: Advaita seems so empty and impersonal to me leaving a void in me...

  1. #1

    Advaita seems so empty and impersonal to me leaving a void in me...

    Namaste All,

    Here is my background in short but detailed:
    I come from the western culture and live in Europe. Christianity is the major religion in my homeland and so I was brought up in that as a child. My family was not so religious. Yet this path is where I am from due to my cultural background.

    Later, at the beginning of my 20s going to university I turned away from Christianity to Vaishnava path. I met Hare Krishna people, I love the Bhagavad-Gita and Vaishnava mantras (not only the HK one).

    Then I got into such a group of people who introduced me to the views of advaita. It was new and even interesting to me. This group of people were shaiva as well.

    By now, since I withdrew from this group I have just realized how empty and impersonal advaita is to me. The lack of God (like Krsna in Vaishnavism) makes it very hard for me. This leaves a void in me and I feel lost.
    I regard Vishnu and Shiva as two facets of the One. The Vaishnava path seems more personal to me than Saiva (and advaita) path.

    I love the person of Ramana Maharshi (followers of his introduced me to shaivism and advaita) but His teaching (Self Enquiry, Who am I)is too high and impersonal to me. What shall I do? Would choosing the Vaishnava path exclude Ramana for example? What am I to do?

    Thank you very much for your answers!

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    Re: Advaita seems so empty and impersonal to me leaving a void in me...

    Quote Originally Posted by Elizabeth108 View Post
    The lack of God (like Krsna in Vaishnavism) makes it very hard for me. This leaves a void in me and I feel lost.
    I regard Vishnu and Shiva as two facets of the One. The Vaishnava path seems more personal to me than Saiva (and advaita) path.
    I don't know what you mean by advaita exactly, but devotion to personal forms of God are integral to both the orthodox tradition of shankara and modern derivatives of non-dualism inspired by ramana maharshi or otherwise.
    Why are you unhappy? Because 99.9 per cent Of everything you think, And of everything you do, Is for yourself —And there isn't one

  3. #3

    Re: Advaita seems so empty and impersonal to me leaving a void in me...

    Quote Originally Posted by Twilightdance View Post
    I don't know what you mean by advaita exactly, but devotion to personal forms of God are integral to both the orthodox tradition of shankara and modern derivatives of non-dualism inspired by ramana maharshi or otherwise.

    Thank you for your answer and question, as well.

    A-dvaita (non-dual), to me, means that Self is that exists and everything other is maya (not real). You are That (Self).
    But is it a true teaching that Krishna is that same Self, the Overself, living in the heart of every entity - this way it is also included in advaita? - Because if this later is accepted as worshipping an istha devata in advaita then ... advaite seems personal too and the ishta devata can fulfill that void in me knowing that I am (part of) That.

  4. #4

    Re: Advaita seems so empty and impersonal to me leaving a void in me...

    Namaste Elizabeth,

    I also think you have some wrong notions of Advaita. I am an Advaitan and I worship Shiva primarily and other deities as well. Shiva IS God to me as an Advaitan, so I'm not sure what you mean by lack of God in Advaita. I believe the main thing is that Advaita teaches that ultimately God is formless and beyond all forms and that our souls are ultimately indistinguishable from that ultimate reality.

  5. #5

    Re: Advaita seems so empty and impersonal to me leaving a void in me...

    Quote Originally Posted by namahsivaya View Post
    Namaste Elizabeth,

    I also think you have some wrong notions of Advaita. I am an Advaitan and I worship Shiva primarily and other deities as well. Shiva IS God to me as an Advaitan, so I'm not sure what you mean by lack of God in Advaita. I believe the main thing is that Advaita teaches that ultimately God is formless and beyond all forms and that our souls are ultimately indistinguishable from that ultimate reality.
    Namaste Namahsivaya,

    Then does advaita mean that God is Formless but one can worship Him through his manifested forms (Shiva, Vishnu, Krishna, etc.)?

    Then I am misled regarding the concept of a-dvaita, dvaita, ishta devata, etc.
    Could you clarify what's the difference between a-dvaita and dvaita if both include worship of an ishta devata? For example if one has an ishta devata (Shiva) to worship then it is dualism, isn't it? Or Shiva is "only" one of the manifasted forms of the Formless?

    Thank you for patience and help.

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    Re: Advaita seems so empty and impersonal to me leaving a void in me...

    Why not try Vallabhacharya's Shuddadvaita philosophy which is a Vaishnava nondualist philosophy with a personal God?
    namastE astu bhagavan vishveshvarAya mahAdevAya tryaMbakAya|
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    Jainarayan is offline ॠनमो भगवते वासà¥à¤¦à¥‡à¤µà¤¾à ¤¯
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    Re: Advaita seems so empty and impersonal to me leaving a void in me...

    Namaste.

    Quote Originally Posted by Omkara View Post
    Why not try Vallabhacharya's Shuddadvaita philosophy which is a Vaishnava nondualist philosophy with a personal God?
    Then there is Achintya Bhedabheda: "inconceivable oneness and difference". http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Achintya_Bheda_Abheda

    And Vishishtadvaita: advaita with qualifications.
    It is non-dualism of the qualified whole, in which Brahman alone exists, but is characterised by multiplicity. It can be described as qualified monism/nondualism or attributive monism.

    Asesha Chit-Achit Prakaaram Brahmaikameva Tatvam - Brahman as qualified by the sentient and insentient modes (aspects or attributes) is the only reality.

    It is a school of Vedanta philosophy which believes in all diversity subsuming to an underlying unity. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vishishtadvaita
    It seems to me the differences between them are miniscule, except that Achintya Bhedabheda comes out of Gaudiya Vaishnavism, proposed by Chaitanya Mahaprabhu.
    śivasya hridayam viṣṇur viṣṇoscha hridayam śivaḥ

  8. #8

    Re: Advaita seems so empty and impersonal to me leaving a void in me...

    I think Elizabeth has correctly perceived the impersonalist conclusion that results from Advaita. If Brahman is indeed all that exists, and everything else is maya, then by the same logic the whole concept of devotion and devotional interactions is also relegated to a category of illusory perception, i.e. not real, not permanent, merely a means to an end, etc.

    It is probably for this reason, as well as many others, that people will often get different explanations of Advaita from different people. Some people explain Advaita in a way that is more reminiscent of Bhaaskara's bedha abedha philosophy, in my observation. Whether they admit it or not, many Advaitins in my observation seem to have problems explaining away the maya part and its ramifications on sadhana.
    Philosoraptor

    "Wise men speak because they have something to say. Fools speak because they have to say something." - Plato

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    Re: Advaita seems so empty and impersonal to me leaving a void in me...

    Vannakkam Elizabeth et al: I've heard this dilemma summarised succinctly with, "Use form to find formless."

    Many of us here share similar problems as you. Advaita without a clear path to it just doesn't cut it for us. We are not at the mountaintop of advaita so we look for something more practical, and often find it in bhakti or seva.

    Aum Namasivaya

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    Re: Advaita seems so empty and impersonal to me leaving a void in me...

    Quote Originally Posted by Elizabeth108 View Post
    Advaita seems so empty and impersonal to me leaving a void in me
    The same philosophy that seems "empty and impersonal" to you has been a source of perennial and continuing elevation to so many others. It has drawn, benefitted from and produced some of the finest minds and philosophers in India (and around the world).

    Each of us is in a different reincarnation cycle. As a result, our perception of God/Truth/Reality is bound to be different.

    We have different spiritual/material needs depending on where we find ourselves on the different hierarchy of needs.


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