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Thread: Maya?

  1. #1

    Maya?

    Is Maya Illusion according to ISKCON? Is reality seen as an illusion like how the Buddhists see reality as Illusion??

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    Re: Maya?

    Quote Originally Posted by Tirisilex View Post
    Is Maya Illusion according to ISKCON? Is reality seen as an illusion like how the Buddhists see reality as Illusion??
    Not all Buddhists see reality as an illusion, in fact many don't. I am a practicing Theravada Buddhist and we do not believe the Buddha taught that reality is an illusion. The Pali Canon, the Tipitaka, supports our view. The Buddha taught that mind and matter really exist.

    I do not mean to derail from the topic of ISKCON, just wanted to correct the idea that all Buddhists believe the world is an illusion.
    Namo Tassa Bhagavato Arahato Samma Sambuddhassa

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    Re: Maya?

    I was taught according to Vajrayana.. I did not know that Theravada had a different view on this.

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    Re: Maya?

    Quote Originally Posted by Tirisilex View Post
    I was taught according to Vajrayana.. I did not know that Theravada had a different view on this.
    No problem. There is some variety in what the different Buddhist schools teach, ranging from the Theravada position that mind and matter are different yet mutually condition each other, to the Zen position that mind-only exists. As you said, Vajrayana presents a more illusory view of reality.
    Namo Tassa Bhagavato Arahato Samma Sambuddhassa

  5. #5

    Re: Maya?

    Quote Originally Posted by Tirisilex View Post
    Is Maya Illusion according to ISKCON? Is reality seen as an illusion like how the Buddhists see reality as Illusion??
    Maya is illusion in the sense that it is temporary. Real but temporary. True reality is eternal...

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    Re: Maya?

    To add on to what Atmarama said, things in this world are illusions because they really arnt here. What I mean by that is, is happiness here is an illusion. You cant find happiness here, but you can find it in the spiritual world. So in this case, its like a mirage. It just appears to be here. Also, like Atmarama said, its unreal in that its imperminant. But I think that the best word would be relative. This world is relative, the spiritual world is Absolute.
    sarva-dharman parityajya
    mam ekam saranam vraja
    aham tvam sarva-papebhyo
    moksayisyami ma sucah

    Hare Krsna!

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    Re: Maya?

    hari o
    ~~~~~~

    namasté

    Here is another view that may perhaps contribute to the conversation...

    What is this māyā ( there are many posts on this subject) ? It is rooted ( √ ) in or measuring and this 'yā' is restraining .
    Yet many say māyā is the notion of illusion. How are these two i.e. illusion and measuring/restraining , connected?

    Māyā is the illusion that the Infinite can be measured out or restrained. It is the idea that this Infinite Being that we experience as the universe
    ( and what it contains) is made of parts, finite items, zillions of them, but still finite , within boundaries. It is the boundless measured into the boundaries ,
    this is the illusion of avidya ( ignorance).


    In ignorance māyā drives individuality; yet one that is fully realized, this māyā becomes the joy of diversity on how many ways this
    Being expresses itself in Fullness. Then one 'sees' sarvaṁ sarvātamkam or everything is everything else. The unity of creation.
    In kaśmir śaivism this transformation of māyā (of limits) becomes the play and display of śakti.


    praṇām
    यतस्त्वं शिवसमोऽसि
    yatastvaṁ śivasamo'si
    because you are identical with śiva

    _

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    Re: Maya?

    Quote Originally Posted by yajvan View Post
    hari o
    ~~~~~~

    namast

    Here is another view that may perhaps contribute to the conversation...

    What is this māyā ( there are many posts on this subject) ? It is rooted ( √ ) in or measuring and this 'yā' is restraining .
    Yet many say māyā is the notion of illusion. How are these two i.e. illusion and measuring/restraining , connected?

    Māyā is the illusion that the Infinite can be measured out or restrained. It is the idea that this Infinite Being that we experience as the universe
    ( and what it contains) is made of parts, finite items, zillions of them, but still finite , within boundaries. It is the boundless measured into the boundaries ,
    this is the illusion of avidya ( ignorance).


    In ignorance māyā drives individuality; yet one that is fully realized, this māyā becomes the joy of diversity on how many ways this
    Being expresses itself in Fullness. Then one 'sees' sarvaṁ sarvātamkam or everything is everything else. The unity of creation.
    In kaśmir śaivism this transformation of māyā (of limits) becomes the play and display of śakti.


    praṇām
    Are you saying that the Hindu concept of Maya means that our understanding of the external world is illusory, not that the world itself is illusory? Thank you for your contributions here.
    Namo Tassa Bhagavato Arahato Samma Sambuddhassa

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    Re: Maya?

    hariḥ oṁ
    ~~~~~~

    namasté upasaka,

    Quote Originally Posted by upasaka View Post
    Are you saying that the Hindu concept of Maya means that our understanding of the external world is illusory, not that the world itself is illusory? Thank you for your contributions here.
    Let me see if I can explain a bit better. First I am not a fan of the word illusion but use it due the notion that māyā has been coupled to it over the years,
    hence it paints one into a corner.

    The world, meaning universe, is infinite and whole, yet we see duality everywhere. This whole universe comes from the Supreme (anuttara) some like to call sivabhaṭṭāra, others brahman, and others perhaps viṣṇu.
    IF the universe is ~illusion~ then from where it comes from is part and parcel part of the illusion too, and this is not possible with the Supreme.
    The universe comes from the emanation of the Supreme, from That (tad-ekam, That One). To say the universe is an illusion is to suggest 'That' is an illusion.
    That cannot be so , as this universe is none other then this Being. But in our ignorance we see duality, differences, due to the blemishes within our self ( some call moha). With this ignorance in tact our vision is impaired and we see only diversity.
    We are within saṅkoca¹ (limitation) that comes with ignorance. But ignorance of what? Our own Self which is the same as the Supreme.

    We are the Divine in condensed form. When we come to experience this fully then there is no mis-givings on what is what. Why so? One comes to the realization , one 'sees' sarvaṁ sarvātamkam or everything is everything else. The unity of creation.

    You ask
    Are you saying that the Hindu concept of Maya means that our understanding of the external world is illusory
    I am saying we do not have 20-20 vision of what Reality is. But what to do? Kṛṣṇa informs us in the bhāgavad gītā , knowledge is the greatest purifier.
    In kaśmir śaivism this is central to the teaching , knowledge and experience. Hence our understanding of the world both external and intenal is blemished and
    can be corrected.

    you mention ,
    not that the world itself is illusory?
    My teacher would often say, the world is as you are.

    praṇām
    words
    saṅkoca some write saṃkoca - limitation , restriction
    Last edited by yajvan; 07 November 2010 at 07:25 PM.
    यतस्त्वं शिवसमोऽसि
    yatastvaṁ śivasamo'si
    because you are identical with śiva

    _

  10. #10
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    Re: Maya?

    Quote Originally Posted by yajvan View Post
    hariḥ oṁ
    ~~~~~~

    namast upasaka,



    Let me see if I can explain a bit better. First I am not a fan of the word illusion but use it due the notion that māyā has been coupled to it over the years,
    hence it paints one into a corner.

    The world, meaning universe, is infinite and whole, yet we see duality everywhere. This whole universe comes from the Supreme (anuttara) some like to call sivabhaṭṭāra, others brahman, and others perhaps viṣṇu.
    IF the universe is ~illusion~ then from where it comes from is part and parcel part of the illusion too, and this is not possible with the Supreme.
    The universe comes from the emanation of the Supreme, from That (tad-ekam, That One). To say the universe is an illusion is to suggest 'That' is an illusion.
    That cannot be so , as this universe is none other then this Being. But in our ignorance we see duality, differences, due to the blemishes within our self ( some call moha). With this ignorance in tact our vision is impaired and we see only diversity.
    We are within saṅkoca (limitation) that comes with ignorance. But ignorance of what? Our own Self which is the same as the Supreme.

    We are the Divine in condensed form. When we come to experience this fully then there is no mis-givings on what is what. Why so? One comes to the realization , one 'sees' sarvaṁ sarvātamkam or everything is everything else. The unity of creation.

    You ask

    I am saying we do not have 20-20 vision of what Reality is. But what to do? Kṛṣṇa informs us in the bhāgavad gītā , knowledge is the greatest purifier.
    In kaśmir śaivism this is central to the teaching , knowledge and experience. Hence our understanding of the world both external and intenal is blemished and
    can be corrected.

    you mention ,
    My teacher would often say, the world is as you are.

    praṇām
    words
    saṅkoca some write saṃkoca - limitation , restriction
    Thank you so much for clarifying this! I appreciate you taking the time to explain it to me. I think I understand what you are saying; maya does not mean the world lacks existence, it means we are not experiencing the world as it truly is according to Hinduism.
    Namo Tassa Bhagavato Arahato Samma Sambuddhassa

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