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Thread: The name Hindu for the people and the country--not a Hindu name?

  1. #11
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    Re: The name Hindu for the people and the country--not a Hindu name?

    Quote Originally Posted by Rationalist View Post
    I love this retarded and fallacy inundated argument.

    I at Westerners/Westernized people and their intellects (or lack thereof?).
    Arey yaar, slow down.
    Don't take the easy route.
    Be consistent with something good, not negativity.

  2. #12
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    Re: The name Hindu for the people and the country--not a Hindu name?

    one of the name of our country BHARAT needs spl mention.it is the name of this region given lakhs of yrs back when The great Suryavanshi king BHARAT ruled our country.it is found in most of our sacred texts.
    Man-naathah Shri Jagan-nathah Mat-guru-shri jagad-guruhu.
    Mad-atma sarva-bhutatma tasmai Shri Gurave Namah.


    My Lord is the Lord of Universe; My teacher is the teacher of the
    entire universe; and my Self is the Self of all. My salutations at the lotus-feet
    of such a Guru, who has revealed such knowledge to me.

  3. #13
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    Re: The name Hindu for the people and the country--not a Hindu name?

    Quote Originally Posted by anirvan View Post
    one of the name of our country BHARAT needs spl mention.it is the name of this region given lakhs of yrs back when The great Suryavanshi king BHARAT ruled our country.it is found in most of our sacred texts.
    Bharat is printed in hindi on every postal stamp along with the english translation 'india'.Im not able to copy paste a stamp, hope someone smarter will come to my rescue, thank u.





    Namaste
    Last edited by charitra; 04 April 2011 at 11:38 AM.

  4. #14

    Re: The name Hindu for the people and the country--not a Hindu name?

    Now this was some real knowledge. Thanks a lot!

  5. #15

    Re: The name Hindu for the people and the country--not a Hindu name?

    Hindu is what outsiders have called us for thousands of years. Bharat is how we have referred to the land bounded between Himalayas and the oceans for thousands of years. According to outsider definition, Indian Muslims, Pakistanis, etc are also Hindus. Even today they name the Paki terrorist leaders in the international terrorist gangs like Al Qaeda something like al-Hindi/al-Hindu, etc.

    The reason why Hindu means a religious term now is because of mainly British rule, and also Muslim intelligentsia will never admit they are Indian by blood. Everyone is a Syed or Shaikh or Pathan. I have even asked Sufi Dalit Bengali Muslims in person, so when did your forefathers convert to Islam, and they say "amra adi-musholman, afghanistan theke" LOL. Apparently there was a massive genetic invasion of Middle-Eastern people in Indian subcontinent 700 years ago, so nobody's ancestors converted. Maybe some anthropologists should do DNA research on these people haha.

    Also above person quoted Kabir. Kabir is saying "The TURK does tareeqat, the Hindu has Vedas and Puranas," so even until medieval times, Hindu was juxtaposed with Turk (ethnic), not with Muslim.

  6. #16

    Re: The name Hindu for the people and the country--not a Hindu name?

    Namaste.

    I am quoting from my post in the other thread regarding Hindu/ Indu, seeing this as the most relevant thread for the topic (and not to derail that thread as Anirudha suggested there).

    Quote Originally Posted by Kalicharan Tuvij View Post
    Namaste Anirudh,

    "Hindu" comes from "Indu" which stands for Soma PavamAna (Soma juice).
    RV 8.48.3 (Devata: Soma, Rsi: Kanva)
    अपा॑म । सोम॑म् । अ॒मृताः॑ । अ॒भू॒म॒ । अग॑न्म । ज्योतिः॑ । अवि॑दाम । दे॒वान् । किम् । नू॒नम् । अ॒स्मान् । कृ॒ण॒व॒त् । अरा॑ति । किम् । ऊँ॒ इति॑ । धू॒र्तिः । अ॒मृ॒त॒ । मर्त्य॑स्य ॥
    apāma | somam | amṛtāḥ | abhūma | aganma | jyotiḥ | avidāma | devān | kim | nūnam | asmān | kṛṇavat | arāti | kim | oṃ iti | dhūrtiḥ | amṛta | martyasya

    meaning: Gods exclaimed : "we have drunk Soma (Indu), we have become Immortal, of Light. Now what tricks mortal enemies can play on us (the Immortals)?"


    This rica from the Veda is very definitive of our ideals. So, whether you use Hindu or Indu, Hindustan or India, doesnt matter.
    Soma PavamAna is known as Indu, e.g.
    RV 09.113.11 (Devata: Soma PavmAna, Rsi: Kashyapa)

    यत्र॑ । आ॒न॒न्दाः । च॒ । मोदाः॑ । च॒ । मुदः॑ । प्र॒ऽमुदः॑ । आस॑ते । काम॑स्य । यत्र॑ । आ॒प्ताः । कामाः॑ । तत्र॑ । माम् । अ॒मृत॑म् । कृ॒धि॒ । इन्द्रा॑य । इ॒न्दो॒ इति॑ । परि॑ । स्र॒व॒ ॥

    yatra | ānandāḥ | ca | modāḥ | ca | mudaḥ | pra-mudaḥ | āsate | kāmasya | yatra | āptāḥ | kāmāḥ | tatra | mām | amṛtam | kṛdhi | indrāya | indo iti | pari | srava

    Make me immortal in that realm (Prithvi in this pada) where happiness and transports, where Joys and felicities combine, and longing wishes are fulfilled. Flow, Indu, flow for Indra's sake.
    From "Indu" to "Hindu" there is hardly any journey, to warrant a revolution. Indian/ Indu/ Bharatiya/ Hindu/ Hindustan/ Indus all mean the same thing in Vedic Sanskrit.

    Sindhu?
    Sindhu originally means : Ocean, Sea. SaptaSindhu (HaptaHindu) is the region near Ocean where Seven rivers (used to) end their journey. This region is known as Sindh. SaptaSindhavah (plural) means those seven rivers meeting the ocean, in the Sindh region, the leading most of whom is (was) Sarasvati (river).

    Sindhu also denotes the "Fourth" realm (see here) which equates it to the word Samudra of the Veda.

    Sindhu only later came to be identified with a river when Sarasvati started to flow into that (needs more research though).

    We also have HinduKush/ HinduKo west of Indus, and not the east of it.

    Indus:
    If we see that the Greek branch of IE is older than Avestan (the latest to migrate out of India), then "Indu" is original just as "Hindu".

    Conclusion:
    1. Hindu stands for original Indu, notwithstanding the SaptaSindhu-HaptaHindu identity.

    2. In Veda, Indu means "Soma flow"/ "Soma-river" and is related to "Indra" who intakes (as in receiving from indriya-s) the Soma through the tongue "which is Agni". Agni (the janus faced god) has these aspects: bhArata, bhArati. Agni is explicitly called bhArata in Veda. So in the Vedic understanding, bhArat and Indu are on the same level. Again, bhArata means "Indra-like" (like Arjuna is addressed as bhArata by Krishna). bhArati, on the other hand, is like goddess IlA. So in the mystical sense bhArata is the kingdom of Indra, whereas ilA-vrata is the spiritual loka hovering directly over it.

    3. Still, there is a probability that Hindu is actually from Sindhu and Sindh. But today anyway we call it Indus, India etc which sounds same as Indu (which is bhArat). So in the end, still, I don't care.

    4. bhAratendu (bhArata + indu) harishchandra is known as the "The Father of Hindi". Note that bhAratendu was a title given to him. So from the pov I am seeing all this, only makes sense.

    5. So what should we call the "Sindhu river" of today as? Actually, it is like saying "Ocean River" (i.e., that which falls into Ocean), but apart from that Sindhu should mean "Ocean" and not river, as discussed above. And there is no way of knowing what was that river called during and before the final redaction of the RgVeda (as is the case with all other rivers, too). I will go by "Indu river", as quoted from Brihaspati Agama inthe OP:
    Quote Originally Posted by saidevo View Post
    Brihaspati Agama says:
    himAlayaM samArabhya yAvadindu sarovaram |
    taM devanirmitaM desha hindusthAnaM prachakShate ||

    "Starting from Himalaya up to Indu waters is this God-created country Hindustan."
    6. Having said all this, I have no doubt that if we truly want to find the origins of Hinduism and bhArata/ India, we have to look southwards. Hopefully I will post something important on that sometime in future.
    Things to remember:

    1. Life = yajña
    2. Depth of Āstika knowledge is directly proportional
    to the richness of Sanskrit it is written in
    3. Āstika = Bhārata ("east") / Ārya ("west")
    4. Varṇa = tripartite division of Vedic polity
    5. r = c. x²
    where,
    r = realisation
    constant c = intelligence
    variable x = bhakti

  7. #17

    Re: The name Hindu for the people and the country--not a Hindu name?

    Indu in Aryan Languages

    1) Indigo (English) : Greek indikon (ινδικόν), Roman indicum
    Literally, “of/ from India”. Also, indikon (and English indigo) is the Greek word for “dye”.
    That is, “dye from India”.
    On the other hand, indigo as a color is a prominent (sixth) color of Indradhanuhsa. Indra Himself is related to six (as the leader of the six loka-s of dyAvAprithvi), and also originally the lord of the sixth chakra (now it is Soma/ Indu, in Tantra). This is the mystical meaning behind indigo the color, which is the sixth color among the seven of the Indradhanusha light-spectrum. Interestingly, in the modern yoga practices the 6th chakra is shown in indigo color.

    2) Indigenous : Latin indu+gena
    Indu people (gena/jana) are the indigenous people. That is the psychological reason why the westerners christened many aboriginal races as Indians (Red Indians, West Indians, Indonesians, etc). “The Homeland”/ “Motherland” is subconsciously attached with India.

    3) Induction : Latin inducere/ induco : induce, lead in, bring in.
    Indra = Indu + ra
    Indra drinking indu denotes the receiving of spiritual intuition. “Induction” derives from that.
    This has to be seen distinct from Greek [endos], which means “within” and not “leading into”.

    4) Industry :
    industry (n.)
    late 15c., "cleverness, skill," from Old French industrie "activity; aptitude" (14c.) or directly from Latinindustria "diligence, activity, zeal," fem. of industrius "industrious, diligent," used as a noun, from early Latin indostruus "diligent," from indu "in, within" + stem of struere "to build" (see structure (n.)). Sense of "diligence, effort" is from 1530s; meaning "trade or manufacture" first recorded 1560s; that of "systematic work" is 1610s.
    The word is reflective of the Indus (Vedic) civilisation of India which was, as is commonly known, innovations and industry driven. “Indus Civilisation” can be seen thus as “Industrial Civilisation”.

    So, we have plenty there on the IE side of the story. Closer to home, I don’t see ancients were so dumb as to equate Sindh with the whole of India. Again, HinduKush/ HinduKo is more along the lines of indiko discussed earlier, and geographically as well doesn’t sit well with Sindh idea. Sindh is still there, as well as the Sindhis.

    And India of Indra and Indu is also, still here.


    Advanced readings: In RgVeda Sindhu (Ocean, Samudra) has a mystical meaning more than anything. So, even though the Ocean there is called Sindhu mahAsAgar, we very well know Sindhu means Samudra in general in even Hindi. The best picture imo (in RV thought) is this: Indu (Soma) originates from Samudra (Sindhu) and finally pours into Samudra (Sindhu) as well. Indeed, there are two Samudra-s (one above, one below) in Vedic thought. Sarasvati, too, is called in one place "sindhu-mAtA" (bahuvrihi) meaning: having Samudra (Sindhu) as Her Origin (Mother), which all sounds to be too counter-intuitive if understood in very literal terms. To continue with the Indu flow picture, when it enters into mystical dyAvAprithvi realm through the efforts of Indra, it branches out in six/seven streams each one of which finally merges into the Samudra.
    Things to remember:

    1. Life = yajña
    2. Depth of Āstika knowledge is directly proportional
    to the richness of Sanskrit it is written in
    3. Āstika = Bhārata ("east") / Ārya ("west")
    4. Varṇa = tripartite division of Vedic polity
    5. r = c. x²
    where,
    r = realisation
    constant c = intelligence
    variable x = bhakti

  8. #18

    Re: The name Hindu for the people and the country--not a Hindu name?

    I am reproducing an article from here, which uses a similar approach (though I may not concur fully with some details) to buttress the fact about Indu, with the merit of been written in a simple language.

    Words Hindu, Hindosthan, Indostan, India are rooted in Sanskrit

    By Bhikhu Patel

    San Jose, CA: Niranjan Shah, in his article — Followers of knowledge or Veda are known as Hindus — published in the India Tribune dated October 24, says the origin of the word Hindu to the Persians. In his earlier article — Who is Hindu? Who is not? -published in the India Tribune dated September 28, 2002, he has given the following explanation.

    “In Hindu scriptures, the word Hindu is not to be found. It was brought into India by the Islamic invaders. The term Hindu is the Persian equivalent of the Vedic term Sindhu. The Iranians used the word Hindu to designate the river Sindhu and population around the Sindhu. The word Hindu was used outside India but was unknown within the country.”

    In his latest article, he has described “the word Hindu used for the people who lived around the Sindhu river as is generally believed, thus it is a geographic word.”

    This has been the popular theory propagating the vocal chord difficulties of the Persians in pronouncing “Sa,” mispronounced Sindhu as Hindu, which hardened up as “Ind” in Greek. The weakness of this theory is that even today, words such as Sindh, Sindhi and Sindhu are in popular use. There are names of towns in Persia itself, e.g. Susa and Shiraz. The popular example given to support mispronunciation is the Sanskrit word Soma which is mispronounced Hoama in old Persian. This may be so, however, it is generally only one syllable that is mispronounced, “So” changing to “Hoa,” and this is supported by people in Surat district who mispronounce the word Surat as Hurat. Thus Hindu should have been Hindhu, but it is not.

    Edward J. Jurji in The Great Religions of Modern World, credits the origin of the word “Hindustan” to the “moving tribesmen, who were impressed by the mighty river and called their home Hindustan, land of the rivers.” He further clarifies that “the Persian word for a river, Hindu, had become, probably in post-Vedic times, the Sanskrit “Sindhu.” India as a country was an envy of the world for its fabulous riches, advanced culture and knowledge; a country that possessed Sanskrit, a language that mesmerized the Europeans, when they realized its influence over the world languages, a whole new science of Comparative Philology came into existence; a country that provided knowledge to the world, the Greeks and the Chinese came to study at Takshila and Nalanda universities; a country whose civilization has an inbuilt civilized behavior; a country, its people, its ocean, its mountain range and its Dharm, all have a common word Hindu in their names; the origin of such a word cannot be credited to the vocal chord difficulties of the Persian.

    The Arab historians nor the European historians can be trusted when the Hindu interests are at stake. To the Arabs, the word Hindu meant a slave. Let us study the word Hindukush in which lay the explanation of the word “Hindu.” Hindukush is the name of a portion of the Himalayan mountain range, that arises in the northern parts of Afghanistan and Pakistan. As usual, the historians gave the credit for the name Hindukush to the Arabs, one of them by the name Ibn Battutah, who gave the meaning Hindu killer. The historians happened to have looked for Hindu skeletons to justify this story but found none.

    This mountain range was famous for medicinal plants that bloomed in the moonlight. The Sanskrit word “Indukush” (Hindukush) means “krupan” (leaves or grass) that grows in the moonlight.

    The European historians carried on with Ibn Battutah story and added on the Greek difficulties that changed the word Hindu to Ind, even though they knew there were names, e.g. Homer, Heraclitus and Herodotus among the Greeks. Therefore, the historians’ stories have no grounds to be believed.

    India had many visitors, among them some Chinese, who came to study Buddhism at source. One of them was Hiuen Tsang. In his travelogue, he records that “the correct pronunciation for Tien Chu (India) is Intu” which means the moon in Chinese language. He further elaborates that “the scholars from that land have brightened the world with their delightful and shining knowledge, like the moon.”

    The word Hindu did not appear in the scriptures, as distinctions among communities were not necessary. It only became necessary after the 11th century with the establishment of Islamic rule in India. As religions and communities mushroomed, the words Indu (Hindu) for the people and Industhan (Hindusthan) for their land came in vogue.

    The Greeks called the sub-continent “Ind” and its people “Indoi.” Thus, the Greek “Ind” and the Chinese “Intu” are not far out from the Sanskrit word “Indu” for the moon (Chandra). As is known to most people, India was once known as Bharatvarsh, named after a legendary Chandravanshiya King Bharat, who ruled India in the past. His people were also known as Chandravanshiya (Indiya or India).

    Thus, the origin of the name Hindu is indigenous with the Sanskrit root “Ind.” Not only that, “Ind” is the root word for Indostan, India, Indies (Indias), Indian (Indikoi), Hindu, Hindosthan and Hindustan.
    Things to remember:

    1. Life = yajña
    2. Depth of Āstika knowledge is directly proportional
    to the richness of Sanskrit it is written in
    3. Āstika = Bhārata ("east") / Ārya ("west")
    4. Varṇa = tripartite division of Vedic polity
    5. r = c. x²
    where,
    r = realisation
    constant c = intelligence
    variable x = bhakti

  9. #19
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    Re: The name Hindu for the people and the country--not a Hindu name?

    It has become popular with these so called researchers to "debunk" traditionally held concepts. Often the person doing the debunking is just trying to seek attention with inconclusive evidence. These bottom feeders of academia love to say things like Hinduism/ India has never existed in the past as a religion/ country, that physical yoga was invented based on western gymnastics or that bhakti developed out of Islamic and Christian ideologies. In all these cases it is very important that we Hindus debunk the debunking.
    Last edited by Sahasranama; 19 March 2014 at 05:51 PM.

  10. #20

    Thumbs Up Re: The name Hindu for the people and the country--not a Hindu name?

    Namaste,
    Quote Originally Posted by Kalicharan Tuvij View Post
    ...by Bhikhu Patel...
    It's all in the name, bro. All in the name. Kem cho status. BTW, thank you a thousand-fold, KT, for these extremely informative and contributive posts.
    Last edited by Sudas Paijavana; 19 March 2014 at 11:45 PM.

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