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Thread: Symbols and their importance

  1. #21
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    Re: Symbols and their importance

    Hari OM

    I would Like to all a few thoughts.

    Mind knows only two things - to select or reject. But in meditation, it enters into third state of stillness. This is something new. Mind is not used to this stillness. One cannot live without thoughts even for a moment.

    When you are doing any kriyA (action) like, singing, doing pujA, or prANAyama, raising kundalini, then it is all a process. Mind can do that easily. All sorts of problems starts when mind has nothing left to hold on to. This stillness is frightening as it is a question of existence of mind. It cannot stay in blank state, so mind shows it;s power and pulls the consciousness back into this world and engages one into worldly issues.

    Meditating the advaita way is not a kriyA, as it is process in which finally mind calms down. It becomes still. But then God knows from where it again rises and pulls me down, trapping me in finite body. Then again I detach, rise above thoughts, into the source of thoughts and again enter into this stillness, the blissful and peaceful state. But again that mind rises and this continues till the mind rises no more. It is death of mind. Min of GYAnI is brahman itself.

    If you are doing any kriya, like worshipping God or reading, then mind has words, actions (doing arati or clapping), to hold on to. It has form and then it has 56 bhoga (delicacies) which later on you will enjoy, there is a scene of krishna, his plays, his pranks, all this constructs in front of us, mind holds on to this scene and enjoys it and in this process it itself gets purified. But here, there is nothing to hold on to, you are doing towards dead end, where mind will cease to exist. Hence advaita is difficult. Here there is no kriyA. Even the neti-neti will cease to continue, that analysis, or say, OM will dissolve into it's source, which is stillness, it is heart, it is bliss, it is peace. No thoughts,m no actions, no duality. Average mind is not prepared to even remain for 5 mins without thoughts. A certain level of purity is needed and then only one can successfully be still after repeated attempts. But without certain level of purity, if one continues, then nothing happens, worse reverse reaction happens and you will curse the day you picked up advaita and you will curse the whole philosophy.

    One enthusiastic lady thinks that just by imagination one can apply advaita in life. It is mind that reflects the world. If one cannot see God in oneself, then that impure mind cannot see God in others. If you feel yourself perfect, then you will also see others as perfect. It is not that 'I am jnani and others are bound'. To experience anything be it perfectness, mind is needed, and this is experienced only by pure mind. This pure mind will reflect this state via 5 senses into the world. Later on when one moves beyond all these experiences, then one enters into a state, where there is no second and this state is indescribable.

    Oh, I realize that I have seriously derailed this thread. Sorry devotee ji

    OM

    Hari OM
    Only God Is Truth, Everything Else Is Illusion - Ramakrishna
    Total Surrender of Ego to SELF is Real Bhakti - Ramana Maharshi

    Silence is the study of the scruptures. Meditation is the continuous thinking of Brahman which is to be meditated upon. The complete negation of both by knowledge is the vision of truth – sadAcAra-14 of Adi SankarAcArya

    namah SivAya vishnurUpAya viShNave SivarUpiNe, MBh, vanaparva, 3.39.76

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  2. #22
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    Re: Symbols and their importance

    hello,

    Agreed for a new thread and since it still make sense to this thread...

    - No we do not worship objects and if it is done that way, its wrong at least as per our agamas and shastras
    - Your example of worshiping vahana - it is not right to say we worship vahana but we 'instill' or install the gaurdian devata's blessings - especially the Ganesha or Lakshmi if car is treated as a wealth
    - Ayutha Pooja is done to honor that goes to 'Bhu' and not to the objects
    - When we build a new house, our 'house warming' is not literal heating up of the house but inviting all the devatas to come and take their respective place and bless us a progressive healthy spiritual life - from Ganapathi to Shri SatyaNarayana ( not devata but the Lord with His consort) in the form of various homa and pooja

    Jada vastu should not be worshiped and what is worshiped should not be understood as "jada" ! This is the simple rule to "question' a practice and if we don't get proper explanation, it just means its a blind faith!

    Hare Krshna!
    Last edited by yajvan; 23 July 2014 at 11:50 AM.

  3. #23
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    Re: Symbols and their importance

    यतस्त्वं शिवसमोऽसि
    yatastvaṁ śivasamo'si
    because you are identical with śiva

    _

  4. #24
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    Re: Symbols and their importance

    Quote Originally Posted by Amrut View Post

    If there is basic difference in our thoughts, we cant communicate properly.

    OM

    Amrut Ji, Namaste,

    I would like to give my opinion on this...its commonly thought that birds of a feather flock together..its partly right but to a great extent being only among those who think alike does not really test our endurance.

    I am not advocating hanging around criminals or those who might endanger our lives but I am talking about the normal people like anyone else but whose thoughts might just differ from us.

    If we constantly communicate with only those who think like us..then it becomes a mutual admiration society and a mental 'inbreeding' starts.
    This has a risk of us not knowing our faults and weakness.

    For example a man who stays in a jungle with like minded individuals and does meditation 24/7 feels he has conquered anger and he starts to feel that he is scaling the heights of spirituality.

    But in reality there is no one to make him angry in the jungle and just say he comes to town one day and someone makes him angry he might totally go out of control and even hit the person who made him angry.

    This is called extremes of reaction becos the mind was not used to any form of opposition for a very long time.

    On the other hand if we keep our options open and mingle with everyone we start to develop endurance to deal with either end of the spectrum in life.

    That helps build a stronger emotional quotient(EQ) and one starts to choose the middle path of not being too affected by change and adversity and one develops an equipoise state in all situations...as in Sukhe Dukhe Same Ktrva Labhaalabhau Jayaajayau(being equipose in happiness and sorrow,gain and loss and victory and defeat)

    So for me on a personal note I prefer to follow the rule of 5.

    At any given time I make sure I have 5 types of people whom I deal with..that is

    1)The loving one
    2)The spiritual one
    3)The brave one
    4)The temperamental one
    5)The intellectual one


    Varied inputs makes one mental state equipped to handle most situations.

  5. #25
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    Re: Symbols and their importance

    Namaste,

    I was expecting Renuka ji to answer my post. It has not come so far. Anyway, I would provide authority for these :

    a) Not imparting the highest knowledge to unprepared souls :

    Mahopanishad

    V-104. At the very outset, purify the disciple through excellence such as mind's tranquility, restraint of sense-organs, etc. Next impart to him the teaching that all this (world) is Brahman, viz., the purified Thou.

    V-105. One who teaches an ignoramus or half-awakened (disciple) that 'all this is Brahman' will (in effect) plunge him in an endless series of hells.


    Bhagwad Gita :

    In Bhagwad Gita also, Lord Krishna advises not to impart the knowledge of Bhagwad Gita to unworthy souls :

    This secret gospel of the Gita should never be imparted to a man who lacks in austerity, nor to him who is wanting in devotion, nor even to him who is not willing to hear; and in no case to him who finds fault with Me. (BG 18.67)


    Kathopanishad

    In Kathopanishad, Death doesn't start teaching the highest Truth until Nachiketa passes the test put by him in the story. Death says :

    2.7. Many do not even hear of the Self. Even those who hear of It do not understand It. Wonderful is the one who teaches the Self and rare indeed is the one qualified to hear the teachings. Rare indeed is the one who knows the Self taught by a skillful teacher.

    Mundak Upanishad

    III-ii-10: This (rule) has been revealed by the mantra (which runs thus): 'To them alone should one expound this knowledge of Brahman who are engaged in the practice of disciplines, versed in the Vedas, and indeed devoted to Brahman, who personally sacrifice to the fire called Ekarsi with faith, and by whom has been duly accomplished the vow of holding fire on the head.'

    b) Those who know should not stop people from doing something which may seem unnecessary (by their logic) to them:

    "For whatever a great man does, that very thing other men also do; whatever standard he sets up, the generality of men follow the same. (BG 3.21)

    If I ever cease to act, these worlds would perish; nay, I should prove to be the cause of confusion, and of the destruction of these people. (BG 3.24)

    Arjuna, as the unwise act with attachment, so should the wise man, with a view to maintain the world order, act without attachment. (BG 3.25)

    A wise man established in the Self should not unsettle the mind of the ignorant attached to action, but should get them to perform all their duties, duly performing his own duties. (BG 3.26)"


    ************

    Logic used by a common person can be defective unless it has the support of some authority (some scriptural support or what great saints have advised on such issues). Upanishads at many a places prohibit imparting the highest teachings of VedAnta to unprepared minds. Otherwise people start acting in the same manner as the Bengali Babu did by stepping upon a Shivalinga. Advaita teachers don't approve such acts. In fact, the act of that Bengali Babu would incur sin as it would create confusion in the minds of the unprepared-people who were present there and if they were lost in their Dharma, a part of all sins performed by them would accrue to Bengali Babu too.

    Some people read Neo-VedAntic teachers' writings without studying Upanishads/Bhagwad Gita/Brahmasutras and think that they are expert on Advaita and that they are eligible to teach. Who can be an Advaita Teacher ? Only a Self-realised Saint can be a right teacher. Otherwise, how can a Blind man lead another Blind man to the correct destination ??
    Last edited by devotee; 22 July 2014 at 11:40 PM.
    "Om Namo Bhagvate Vaasudevaye"

  6. #26
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    Re: Symbols and their importance

    Quote Originally Posted by devotee View Post
    Namaste Renuka ji,

    You have said that you have read almost all Vedanta literature. Upanishads don't advise imparting this knowledge to each and sundry. One of the Upanishads goes on to say that imparting VednAntic Knowledge (like Aham BrahmAsmi) to an unprepared soul is akin to pushing him/her to hell. Have you read this ? If you want I can give you proper references.

    OM

    Namaste Ji,

    I missed this post of yours.

    I did say that I have read ALMOST of Vedanta..so technically that means NOT yet everything and surely there must be somethings that I could have missed too and not have access to.

    So far all that is in Ramakrishna Mission I have read..if there is something that I have not read I would be glad to know from you more.

    I know that forcing anyone to do what they are not inclined too is not advocated for example some parents force their children to become doctors when the child might prefer to be an actor.

    So the person becomes dissatisfied with life and does not perform well.

    This much I agree with you but as I had said earlier..who is eligible and who is not eligible can only be determined by a very competent unbiased Guru or God.

    Now coming to criteria..technically going by orthodox view since I am a woman I should not be even be debating about Vedanta isnt it?

    I had met a priest from India once who told me that as a woman I should not even recite the Gayatri Mantra and not read Vedanta.

    Did I believe him? Nope!

    I still recited what I wanted and read up any text that was within my view.


    So dear sir..I am glad if you can give my new info and also tell me what do you feel the criteria for an eligible candidate is per your personal view.


    What I am trying to say is mostly we hear that "one is not ready or unfit etc" it always seems that no one is ever ready. Why no Guru wants to make people ready and receptive?
    A doctor has to treat the sick and make him well and not only treat the well.
    Likewise if person is deemed not ready..guide him on how to be ready and introduce to him lessons and not deny him or demote him.


    For me I feel its better not to have pre conceived notions and deny a deserving candidate like a reservation system that denies a brilliant candidate just becos he/she is from a forward caste.

  7. #27
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    Re: Symbols and their importance

    Namaste Renuka ji,

    The eligibility is decided by the scriptures (the Vedas). I have doubts on PurANas and therefore I cannot say anything on what they say.

    Who told you that a woman should not study Vedas ? Have you studied BrihdAraNyak Upanishad ? What was Gargi who was asking questions from YAjnavalkya ? A Male or a female ?

    Moreover, it is less important what you decide to do for yourself. However, advising someone to act as per your understanding, unless you have the authority, can be dangerous.

    OM
    "Om Namo Bhagvate Vaasudevaye"

  8. #28
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    Re: Symbols and their importance

    Quote Originally Posted by devotee View Post
    Namaste Renuka ji,

    The eligibility is decided by the scriptures (the Vedas). I have doubts on PurANas and therefore I cannot say anything on what they say.

    Who told you that a woman should not study Vedas ? Have you studied BrihdAraNyak Upanishad ? What was Gargi who was asking questions from YAjnavalkya ? A Male or a female ?

    Moreover, it is less important what you decide to do for yourself. However, advising someone to act as per your understanding, unless you have the authority, can be dangerous.

    OM

    Dear Sir,

    What ever you are saying about Gargi etc I also told to that priests when he told me I should not read Vedanta or recite Gayatri Mantra but he was still adamant saying that he is right and woman should not read vedanta.

    Then I even told him that Ubhaya Bharati was the judge for Madana Misra and Adi Shankara and the priest told me that Ubhaya Bharati was an incarnation of Goddess Saraswati and not an ordinary woman..so she was entitled but all ordinary females are not allowed!LOL Anyway I did not believe him.

    Yes I agree I only decide for myself..but if anyone asks me anything I do tell them what books to read and what options they have and tell them about various schools of thoughts and let them choose what they like.

    So in no way I am advocating one size fits all but I dont mind people knowing what are the possible options out here for them to choose from and try.

    Squirrels are known to store and hide nuts for use during winter..but a squirrel comes with a poor memory and many a times forgets where it stored the nuts..likewise if we keep hiding the essence of Hinduism for ever and ever..eventually the person who hides too forgets it.

    That is why these days we have people who have been wearing a Yagnopavit for years but still do not understand the meaning of Gayatri Mantra despite not missing the Trikala Sandhyavandanam.

  9. #29
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    Re: Symbols and their importance

    Admin Note

    Namaste,

    This thread is going all over the place. Please focus on the original post and post accordingly. I will delete irrelevant posts.
    satay

  10. #30
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    Re: Symbols and their importance

    Namaste Renuka,

    Quote Originally Posted by renuka View Post
    What ever you are saying about Gargi etc I also told to that priests when he told me I should not read Vedanta or recite Gayatri Mantra but he was still adamant saying that he is right and woman should not read vedanta.

    Then I even told him that Ubhaya Bharati was the judge for Madana Misra and Adi Shankara and the priest told me that Ubhaya Bharati was an incarnation of Goddess Saraswati and not an ordinary woman..so she was entitled but all ordinary females are not allowed!LOL Anyway I did not believe him.
    See, we have to depend upon Scriptures and if there is a confusion then the highest of them i.e. Vedas should be relied upon. If there is problem in understanding of the Vedas, then we should follow what our Self-realised Gurus have said or done. The priest is no authority to say anything like this. He is not speaking with the authority of the Vedas and he is not a Self-realised saint.

    I was only objecting to your way of denigrating/making light of wearing of Mangalsutra etc. by a married Hindu woman. [Note : I am from North India and in our culture, there is not same reverence towards this symbol as it enjoys in Southern India.] Let's not do it. It can create serious confusion in unripe minds and can be the cause of havoc in their lives and if they fall from their Dharma, we would be a party to all the sins performed by them due to this confusion.

    OM
    "Om Namo Bhagvate Vaasudevaye"

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