Re: What does the Supreme really want?
Namaste Gitananda-ji
Originally Posted by
R Gitananda
If my use of the word 'Supreme' made the question hard for you to understand then perhaps I should have asked "What does the wholeness really want?" but I hadn't thought of that.
You didn't, besides, wholeness only wants us to be whole, not too hard for anyone to understand.
Originally Posted by
R Gitananda
False as in deceptive? I thought it was sort of rhetorical.
My intention was to provoke discussion on the topic.
I respect and like your contributions here very much. I get it.
Originally Posted by
R Gitananda
Supreme was short for 'Supreme Being'. It is a normal part of English usage.
As I am posting in the Vaishnava forum then it refers to Vishnu/Rama/Krishna.
I fear there is no sheltering behind a sub-forum or a sect- speaking of which, we come to this:
Originally Posted by
yajvan
oṁ pūrṇamadaḥ pūrṇamidaṁ pūrṇāt pūrṇamudacyate |
pūrṇasya pūrṇamādāya pūrṇamīvāvashiṣyate ||
That is whole; this is whole;
From that whole this whole came;
From that whole, this whole removed,
What remains is whole.
As you say, though, we may try this:
Hinduism - X = Vaishnavism
Or, to be even more general,
Fullness - X = Vishnu
Now, what could be this "X"?
But as per the above-mentioned Shruti quote,
X = Fullness, and
Vishnu = Fullness
That is how Aditi begets Daksha and is then begotten from Daksha in turn.
Again, as mentioned by Yajvan ji, the word "Vishnu" itself means this Fullness, the Overflowing.
Originally Posted by
R Gitananda
Bhagavan is a nice Sanskrit word. Supreme is a nice English word that is properly used in English translations of the Gita (parama-isvara) and so I consider it a valid option here in the Vaishnava forum. Also sloka 18 of chapter 15 seems pretty unequivocal to me.
Let us say, "parabrahm" for "Supreme". Shri Vishnu has been called parabrahm many times. But is Parabrahm really same as Supreme? Let us see this again:
Originally Posted by
yajvan
From the the mālinīvijayottara tantra:
pracayaṁ rūpātītaṁ ca samyak turyamudāhṛtaṁ|
mahāpracayamicchanti turyātītaṁ vicakṣaṇāḥ ||38||
turya -the fourth - (turyam) is said to be (udāhṛtam) truly (samyák) pracaya - literally the Mass- (pracayam) and (ca) rūpātītam -the state beyond rūpastha or deep sleep- (rūpá-atītam).
The wise (vicakṣaṇāḥ) wish (to attain) (icchanti) mahāpracaya -literally the Great Mass, the great fullness, totality - (mahāpracayam) (also known as) turyātīta - literally - beyond the fourth - (turya-atītam)
Therefore, by "turiyātīta" we mean that which is beyond even Brahm, and hence is "Para+brahm", and that would be Fullness, again.
Any serious student if Veda knows that Aditi is Fullness, and therefore an Aditya (Shri Vishnu is one) is also the same Fullness.
And all Āstika sects contain the whole of Hinduism. When part contains the whole, Bindu contains Sindhu, we say "Yo, Hinduism is here!"
Things to remember:
1. Life = yajña
2. Depth of Āstika knowledge is directly proportional
to the richness of Sanskrit it is written in
3. Āstika = Bhārata ("east") / Ārya ("west")
4. Varṇa = tripartite division of Vedic polity
5. r = c. x²
where,
r = realisation
constant c = intelligence
variable x = bhakti
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