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Thread: What does the Supreme really want?

  1. #11
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    Re: What does the Supreme really want?

    Namaste Yajvan ji,

    we find this notion ( with different words) used in the mālinīvijayottara tantra ; I will add the verse/hymn if there is interest.
    I am interested as I keenly observe how seemingly different paths lead us to the same Truth.

    OM
    "Om Namo Bhagvate Vaasudevaye"

  2. #12
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    Re: What does the Supreme really want?

    Quote Originally Posted by devotee View Post
    Namaste Yajvan ji,



    I am interested as I keenly observe how seemingly different paths lead us to the same Truth.
    From the the mālinīvijayottara tantra:

    pracayaṁ rūpātītaṁ ca samyak turyamudāhṛtaṁ|
    mahāpracayamicchanti turyātītaṁ vicakṣaṇāḥ ||38||

    turya -the fourth - (turyam) is said to be (udāhṛtam) truly (samyák) pracaya - literally the Mass- (pracayam) and (ca) rūpātītam -the state beyond rūpastha or deep sleep- (rūpá-atītam).
    The wise (vicakṣaṇāḥ) wish (to attain) (icchanti) mahāpracaya -literally the Great Mass, the great fullness, totality - (mahāpracayam) (also known as) turyātīta - literally - beyond the fourth - (turya-atītam)


    iti śivaṁ
    यतस्त्वं शिवसमोऽसि
    yatastvaṁ śivasamo'si
    because you are identical with śiva

    _

  3. #13

    Smile Re: What does the Supreme really want?

    Namaste!

    Congratulations, R Gitananda, for one of the most intelligent, meaningful and important questions that could be rised!

    The Supreme - God, is known as Atma-rama - self satisfied, and His nature is sat-cit-ananda - eternal, full of knowledge and full of bliss. He is purnam - comlete and perfect.

    vadanti tat tattva-vidas
    tattvam yaj jnanam advayam
    brahmeti paramatmeti
    bhagavan iti sabdyate

    Learned transcendentalists who know the Absolute Truth call this nondual substance Brahman, Paramatma or Bhagavan.
    (Srimad Bhagavata purana 1.2.11)

    In the Brahman feature - which is the impersonal feature, there is no varigatedness and thus no spesific desire.

    In His feature as the Supreme Personality of Godhead - Sri Bhagavan, He is full of desires! Not selfish desires to enjoy, born of lust - like the desires of the conditioned souls, but spiritual desires born of His all-encompassing love!

    In the Bhagavad-gita 18.65 He says:

    man-manā bhava mad-bhakto
    mad-yājī māṁ namaskuru
    mām evaiṣyasi satyaṁ te
    pratijāne priyo 'si me

    Always think of Me, become My devotee, worship Me and offer your homage unto Me. Thus you will come to Me without fail. I promise you this because you are My very dear friend.




    What the Supreme really wants is that we - the conditioned souls who are entangled in this material world - mesmerized by the glimmer of His external energy (maha-maya), give up our futile attempts to be happy by trying to enjoy the manifestations of this world, surrender unto Him, regain our original pure spiritual consciousness by engaging in spiritual practices, and return to the spiritual world to eternally engage in blissful, loving exchanges with Him in the different mellows (rasas) of relationships that are manifested there.


    He wants to be with each and every one of us in the liberated stage, in an active loving relationship where He enjoys increasing the bliss of His beloved associates the living entities who are His eternal parts by making all sorts of arrangements through His internal energy - Yoga-maya, and the
    liberated soul serve Him in pure love (prema) and perfect devotion.

    This is the natural and perfect situation where everyone is enjoying the ever-expanding bliss of spiritual, selfless, unconditional prema. And that is the purpose of our existence.




    So the Supreme doesn't need anything, but He wants our love, and that is something we must choose.




    And yes - He wants us to share this sublime knowledge (which He has given in the Bhagavad-gita) with our brothers and sisters in this world, and thus help them to get back to Him and attain real happiness.

    This I have learned through disiplic succession from one of the maha-bhagavata devotees of the Lord, A.C. Bhaktivedanta swami, who is fulfilling the Lord's desire by distributing this knowledge all over the world.


    Hare Krishna!

  4. #14
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    Re: What does the Supreme really want?

    Namaste Kalicharan Tuvij

    Quote Originally Posted by Kalicharan Tuvij View Post
    "Supreme" is a wrong word. Yajvan ji mentions "Wholeness" that is more aligned to Vedic use of the term
    If my use of the word 'Supreme' made the question hard for you to understand then perhaps I should have asked "What does the wholeness really want?" but I hadn't thought of that.
    Quote Originally Posted by Kalicharan Tuvij View Post
    To sum up, it is a false question.
    False as in deceptive? I thought it was sort of rhetorical.
    My intention was to provoke discussion on the topic.
    Quote Originally Posted by Kalicharan Tuvij View Post
    the use of a wrong word "Supreme"
    Supreme was short for 'Supreme Being'. It is a normal part of English usage.
    As I am posting in the Vaishnava forum then it refers to Vishnu/Rama/Krishna.
    Quote Originally Posted by Kalicharan Tuvij View Post
    Is some different brand of Āstika brewing there up in USA?"
    That is what is known as innuendo - it should have no place in this forum.
    Quote Originally Posted by Kalicharan Tuvij View Post
    I wonder, because I again see the word "Supreme", and not "Bhagavan", written all over it.
    Bhagavan is a nice Sanskrit word. Supreme is a nice English word that is properly used in English translations of the Gita (parama-isvara) and so I consider it a valid option here in the Vaishnava forum. Also sloka 18 of chapter 15 seems pretty unequivocal to me.

    Hari Aum
    Last edited by R Gitananda; 30 August 2014 at 06:45 PM. Reason: general
    With our ears may we hear what is good.
    With our eyes may we behold thy righteousness.
    Tranquil in body, may we who worship thee find rest.

    AUM Peace Peace Peace

  5. #15
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    Re: What does the Supreme really want?

    hariḥ oṁ
    ~~~~~~
    namasté
    Quote Originally Posted by R Gitananda View Post
    Supreme was short for 'Supreme Being'. It is a normal part of English usage.
    Let me ask your opinion here. How do you see this Supreme ?
    'Supreme Being' -or- 'A Supreme Being'

    ( others as usual are always welcomed to offer their point of view and knowledge )


    iti śivaṁ
    यतस्त्वं शिवसमोऽसि
    yatastvaṁ śivasamo'si
    because you are identical with śiva

    _

  6. #16
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    Re: What does the Supreme really want?

    Quote Originally Posted by yajvan View Post
    From the the mālinīvijayottara tantra:

    pracayaṁ rūpātītaṁ ca samyak turyamudāhṛtaṁ|
    mahāpracayamicchanti turyātītaṁ vicakṣaṇāḥ ||38||

    turya -the fourth - (turyam) is said to be (udāhṛtam) truly (samyák) pracaya - literally the Mass- (pracayam) and (ca) rūpātītam -the state beyond rūpastha or deep sleep- (rūpá-atītam).
    The wise (vicakṣaṇāḥ) wish (to attain) (icchanti) mahāpracaya -literally the Great Mass, the great fullness, totality - (mahāpracayam) (also known as) turyātīta - literally - beyond the fourth - (turya-atītam)


    iti śivaṁ
    Thanks.

    OM
    "Om Namo Bhagvate Vaasudevaye"

  7. #17

    Re: What does the Supreme really want?

    Namaste Gitananda-ji
    Quote Originally Posted by R Gitananda View Post
    If my use of the word 'Supreme' made the question hard for you to understand then perhaps I should have asked "What does the wholeness really want?" but I hadn't thought of that.
    You didn't, besides, wholeness only wants us to be whole, not too hard for anyone to understand.
    Quote Originally Posted by R Gitananda View Post
    False as in deceptive? I thought it was sort of rhetorical.
    My intention was to provoke discussion on the topic.
    I respect and like your contributions here very much. I get it.
    Quote Originally Posted by R Gitananda View Post
    Supreme was short for 'Supreme Being'. It is a normal part of English usage.
    As I am posting in the Vaishnava forum then it refers to Vishnu/Rama/Krishna.
    I fear there is no sheltering behind a sub-forum or a sect- speaking of which, we come to this:
    Quote Originally Posted by yajvan View Post
    oṁ pūrṇamadaḥ pūrṇamidaṁ pūrṇāt pūrṇamudacyate |
    pūrṇasya pūrṇamādāya pūrṇamīvāvashiṣyate ||

    That is whole; this is whole;
    From that whole this whole came;
    From that whole, this whole removed,
    What remains is whole.
    As you say, though, we may try this:
    Hinduism - X = Vaishnavism
    Or, to be even more general,
    Fullness - X = Vishnu

    Now, what could be this "X"?
    But as per the above-mentioned Shruti quote,
    X = Fullness, and
    Vishnu = Fullness

    That is how Aditi begets Daksha and is then begotten from Daksha in turn.
    Again, as mentioned by Yajvan ji, the word "Vishnu" itself means this Fullness, the Overflowing.

    Quote Originally Posted by R Gitananda View Post
    Bhagavan is a nice Sanskrit word. Supreme is a nice English word that is properly used in English translations of the Gita (parama-isvara) and so I consider it a valid option here in the Vaishnava forum. Also sloka 18 of chapter 15 seems pretty unequivocal to me.
    Let us say, "parabrahm" for "Supreme". Shri Vishnu has been called parabrahm many times. But is Parabrahm really same as Supreme? Let us see this again:
    Quote Originally Posted by yajvan View Post
    From the the mālinīvijayottara tantra:

    pracayaṁ rūpātītaṁ ca samyak turyamudāhṛtaṁ|
    mahāpracayamicchanti turyātītaṁ vicakṣaṇāḥ ||38||

    turya -the fourth - (turyam) is said to be (udāhṛtam) truly (samyák) pracaya - literally the Mass- (pracayam) and (ca) rūpātītam -the state beyond rūpastha or deep sleep- (rūpá-atītam).
    The wise (vicakṣaṇāḥ) wish (to attain) (icchanti) mahāpracaya -literally the Great Mass, the great fullness, totality - (mahāpracayam) (also known as) turyātīta - literally - beyond the fourth - (turya-atītam)
    Therefore, by "turiyātīta" we mean that which is beyond even Brahm, and hence is "Para+brahm", and that would be Fullness, again.

    Any serious student if Veda knows that Aditi is Fullness, and therefore an Aditya (Shri Vishnu is one) is also the same Fullness.

    And all Āstika sects contain the whole of Hinduism. When part contains the whole, Bindu contains Sindhu, we say "Yo, Hinduism is here!"
    Things to remember:

    1. Life = yajña
    2. Depth of Āstika knowledge is directly proportional
    to the richness of Sanskrit it is written in
    3. Āstika = Bhārata ("east") / Ārya ("west")
    4. Varṇa = tripartite division of Vedic polity
    5. r = c. x²
    where,
    r = realisation
    constant c = intelligence
    variable x = bhakti

  8. #18
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    Re: What does the Supreme really want?

    namasté

    Thank you for giving me an opportunity to think again about such an important question.

    In this life I find time mainly for the Bhagavad Gita and so I get my ideas from there. I

    see this Supreme as 'the Supreme Being' not 'a Supreme Being'. 'supreme' would in my

    view refer to the power and authority manifested by a particular form in the material

    cosmos. According to the revelation in chapter 11, the speaker of the Gita can manifest

    unlimited
    power and authority in this material cosmos if and when he wants to.

    Whoever
    can do that is imo a manifestation of the Supreme Being. Whoever cannot do

    that is either not a manifestation of the Supreme Being or someone that devotees can

    argue about ("He chose not to use his unlimited power but I am sure that he has it.

    etc.") So in my opinion parabrahman although
    avibhaktam manifests through different

    forms with different personalities according to his will.

    Hari Aum



    Quote Originally Posted by yajvan View Post
    hariḥ oṁ
    ~~~~~~
    namasté


    Let me ask your opinion here. How do you see this Supreme ?
    'Supreme Being' -or- 'A Supreme Being'

    ( others as usual are always welcomed to offer their point of view and knowledge )


    iti śivaṁ
    Last edited by R Gitananda; 01 September 2014 at 11:31 AM. Reason: improve spacing
    With our ears may we hear what is good.
    With our eyes may we behold thy righteousness.
    Tranquil in body, may we who worship thee find rest.

    AUM Peace Peace Peace

  9. #19
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    Re: What does the Supreme really want?

    Om
    namaste

    If there is a "want" - then it has to be the stable state. As rest all states are temporary.

    The stable is the turiya or the 4th state. This is lowest point where all entities and attributes become zero.

    This "want" creates the swing from manifestation to unmanifestation - like pendulam - the lowest point is the unmanifested turiya state.
    Love and best wishes:hug:

  10. #20

    Re: What does the Supreme really want?

    God - The Absolute is full and happy, and yet He desires to expand the bliss. Therefore He expands into so many living entities to enjoy rasa (loving relationships)with them.

    There is a gulf of difference between this transcendental desire and material desires that are born out of a feeling of incompleteness.


    Jay Sri Radhe!

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