Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 10 of 26

Thread: In Defense Of Hatha Yoga

Hybrid View

  1. #1

    In Defense Of Hatha Yoga

    Ha (Sun) and Tha (Moon) yoga are the third (Asana) and fourth (Pranayama breathing) of Patanjali's Eight Limbs. It's just as Hindu as the other forms of yoga; yet it doesn't get the respect it deserves. It's much more than the asanas. Is it because of its popularity in the West? I'd like to know what Hindus here think.
    Om Shanti.

    Indrajaya

  2. #2
    Join Date
    March 2006
    Location
    Guru-mandala
    Age
    44
    Posts
    742
    Rep Power
    71
    Namaste,

    The ashtanga system of Patanjali is very different from hatha-yoga, which is a part of Natha system (especially in its later form promoted by Gorakhnath).

    Ha and Tha are Shiva and Shakti, their union is Samarasa. This is a Natha teaching, and has no relation at all to Patanjali.

  3. #3
    Sorry. I should have said Patanjali's teachings as adapted by Gurujis T Krishnamacharya, Sri K Pattabhi Jois, and BKS Iyengar. Asanas are important in Ashtanga and Iyengar--which makes them Hatha as far as I'm concerned.

    Okay, I admit it. My real agenda is the lack of respect for Ashtanga. I've met yogin from other traditions who act as if it's one step above "power" yoga.
    Om Shanti.

    Indrajaya

  4. #4
    Join Date
    March 2006
    Location
    Guru-mandala
    Age
    44
    Posts
    742
    Rep Power
    71
    Quote Originally Posted by Indrajaya
    Sorry. I should have said Patanjali's teachings as adapted by Gurujis T Krishnamacharya, Sri K Pattabhi Jois, and BKS Iyengar. Asanas are important in Ashtanga and Iyengar--which makes them Hatha as far as I'm concerned.

    Okay, I admit it. My real agenda is the lack of respect for Ashtanga. I've met yogin from other traditions who act as if it's one step above "power" yoga.
    In fact both Iyengar and P. Jois are teaching something very different from Shri Krishnamacharya's system. Which is again very different from ashtanga of Patanjali. Krishnamacharya was a Shrivaishnava Guru and not a gymnast like these two.

    The whole thing of Yoga is very confused nowadays. Practically modern "yoga-fitness" is a commercial product made from pieces of Natha and Patanjala systems plus new developments such as Surya-namaskara etc. This is not Yoga and not an integral system, but a sad fabrication and money-intended fraud.

    True Yoga is always a religious and philosophical doctrine (darshana) and never a fitness system for good health and stuff.
    If we speak of "yoga" as a part of Ayurveda, then such yoga is never ashtanga one, but a mere method of treatment.

  5. #5

    Re: In Defense Of Hatha Yoga

    arey baba sai bad but anyway one aspect is everybody seems like getting on
    happily with whatever form they choose,the really full and complete practice
    from matsyendra and gorakh is way beyond reach for many of us,so as today forms are concerned the whole affair is far better than any drinking dancing
    and other useless activities whose list makes sorry reading,yoga all the way
    and good luck for everyone, lucky for us we live under the umbrella of sri aurobindo,good shelter

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by Indrajaya
    Ha (Sun) and Tha (Moon) yoga are the third (Asana) and fourth (Pranayama breathing) of Patanjali's Eight Limbs. It's just as Hindu as the other forms of yoga; yet it doesn't get the respect it deserves. It's much more than the asanas. Is it because of its popularity in the West? I'd like to know what Hindus here think.
    The word Yoga itself is the central theme of all hindu traditions~to connect to god head. The commercial system you are referring to is surely taken from various hindu systems of hatha yoga. But whether it is hindu or not will depend on how much such systems actually focus on the real aim of yoga vis-a-vis just the physical practice. I'm not aware of how it is practiced in the west~some systems like power yoga looks like totally alienated from the original system. My understanding is that, these teachers in the west themselves shaver the link of their system from the sanatana dharma. I haven't heard many 'pure yoga' teachers ever bringing dharma into the practice. Without dharma the word yoga becomes meaningless in it's true sense. I'm not aware of the particular system you are referring to, so I can't get judgmental there.


    Patanjali didn't create a system of yoga~only formalized and theorized the existing systems. I had the idea that all yoga is patanjalistic in that sense but at the same time none (or very few?) of the yoga systems are patanjalistic in terms of lineage and actual practice.

    --------------------------

    *coupled with the fact that I'm feeling apolitical today and have nothing much to do at the moment, made me to post here.
    Last edited by Singhi Kaya; 30 April 2006 at 06:33 AM.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    March 2006
    Location
    Guru-mandala
    Age
    44
    Posts
    742
    Rep Power
    71
    Quote Originally Posted by Singhi Kaya
    The word Yoga itself is the central theme of all hindu traditions~to connect to god head.
    I believe the initial question wasn't about this.
    Of course, the word "yoga" is very common to all Hindu traditions and generally refer to religious practice (the very word "religion" is a synonim of "yoga").

    Quote Originally Posted by Singhi Kaya
    Patanjali didn't create a system of yoga~only formalized and theorized the existing systems. I had the idea that all yoga is patanjalistic in that sense but at the same time none (or very few?) of the yoga systems are patanjalistic in terms of lineage and actual practice.
    This is not accurate. Historically Gita was written approximately at the same time as Yoga-sutras or even earlier (Gita is dated by 5th century B.C.E., Yoga-sutras as i remember are post-buddhist). But Patanjali's system is very different from Gita's teaching.
    Yoga of early Upanishads is similar to Gita's one.

    Shaiva-siddhanta system of Yoga is again different from these both, as reflected in Tirumantiram (6th century C.E.).

    Tantric Shaiva Yoga can be dated by approximately 6—9th centuries C.E., and is reflected in Bhairava-agamas (for example, in Netra-tantra and Vijnana-bhairava). Though it has also eight angas, it is very defferent from Patanjali's system, but is well compatible with Gita's teaching.

    Then, both these ancient systems are different from hatha-yoga propogated by followers of Gorakhnath (12th century and later). Here we have Hathayoga-pradipika, Gheranda-samhita etc. But this hatha-yoga is still a religious system, based upon Natha-shaivism.

    I assume Ghata-yoga of Jagannatha cult is of the same period.

    Modern fitness-yoga is neither Patanjala-ashtanga nor Natha's hatha-yoga. It is a commercial product and not a religious system at all. Speculations around Moksha and spirituality usually are simply a part of brand-name and image of "yoga".

    There cannot be any Yoga without Bhagavan and without darshana.

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Arjuna
    I believe the initial question wasn't about this.
    Of course, the word "yoga" is very common to all Hindu traditions and generally refer to religious practice (the very word "religion" is a synonim of "yoga").
    As generally happens we have drifted many miles from the OP. But it is still a useful one and not totally unrelated to OP.



    Quote Originally Posted by Arjuna
    This is not accurate. Historically Gita was written approximately at the same time as Yoga-sutras or even earlier (Gita is dated by 5th century B.C.E., Yoga-sutras as i remember are post-buddhist). But Patanjali's system is very different from Gita's teaching.
    Yoga of early Upanishads is similar to Gita's one.

    Shaiva-siddhanta system of Yoga is again different from these both, as reflected in Tirumantiram (6th century C.E.).

    Tantric Shaiva Yoga can be dated by approximately 6—9th centuries C.E., and is reflected in Bhairava-agamas (for example, in Netra-tantra and Vijnana-bhairava). Though it has also eight angas, it is very defferent from Patanjali's system, but is well compatible with Gita's teaching.

    Then, both these ancient systems are different from hatha-yoga propogated by followers of Gorakhnath (12th century and later). Here we have Hathayoga-pradipika, Gheranda-samhita etc. But this hatha-yoga is still a religious system, based upon Natha-shaivism.

    I assume Ghata-yoga of Jagannatha cult is of the same period.
    As Truthseeker said general way to compare yogas is by tattvas. Samkhya of maharshi Kapil is the key to yoga. No yoga can be understood without an understanding of Samkhya. In terms of tattavas all yoga are same. It's only semantics which is different. Same as kundalini and sat-chakras, the associated gods and shaktis in tantra. And further analysis of the bijas in the chakras reveal the same tattavas of yoga. Inspite of so much external apparant divisions within sanatan dharma~it is all the same. It has just been expressed differently for different types of peoples in different ages. Sanatan dharma is bound by one cord~this now not well understood by many.

    Quote Originally Posted by Arjuna
    Modern fitness-yoga is neither Patanjala-ashtanga nor Natha's hatha-yoga. It is a commercial product and not a religious system at all. Speculations around Moksha and spirituality usually are simply a part of brand-name and image of "yoga".

    There cannot be any Yoga without Bhagavan and without darshana.
    This is true. Fitness yoga has it's benefits. Only it should be made clear that this yoga is not spirituality~which does not happen as some masters may be inclined to cash in on all types of aspirants, including spiritual ones.

  9. #9

    Re: In Defense Of Hatha Yoga

    do you do any practice you have a pretty obvious knwoledge of the texts
    pertaining to this great science of yoga and I would very much like if you
    could tell me how to obtain the gerhanda-samhita,goraksa paddhati,goraksa
    sataka and other books on this line
    I have been pleasantly surprise,while doing ashtanga (moderate first serie)
    to see that a great number of people practice with an authentic aspiration
    towards the true goal of yoga,no pride even though some achievers reach
    high levels,I think mostly sincerity guides people in this direction and love
    affection bind all true seekers a million praises and thanks for INDIA
    incredible heritage
    dubnath ex dubos ex frenchman in and around INDIA since 1967

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Indrajaya
    Ha (Sun) and Tha (Moon) yoga are the third (Asana) and fourth (Pranayama breathing) of Patanjali's Eight Limbs. It's just as Hindu as the other forms of yoga; yet it doesn't get the respect it deserves. It's much more than the asanas. Is it because of its popularity in the West? I'd like to know what Hindus here think.
    Hatha Yoga is roughly equal to Karma Yoga of vedantic philosophy. Raja Yoga is roughly equal to Jnana/Bhakti Yoga of vedanta. Karma Yoga presupposes Pranayama and Pratyahara in its sadhana. The ultimate goal of Karma yoga is achieve a high level of mental purity and realize Taijasa, and there may be several ways to achieve that....

    Different types of Yoga converge towards the final goal, though they might differ in specifics and external disciplines. One way to compare different Yogas is to check what tattvas are covered in various stages. In Kundalini Yoga, the first six chakras upto Agnya Chakra is an equivalent of Karma Yoga. Kurukshetra Yuddha is nothing but conquest of the Agnya Chakra.

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •