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Thread: answering those who say Hindu adoptees are adharmic

  1. #11
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    Re: answering those who say Hindu adoptees are adharmic

    Pranam

    in our haste to be all inclusive, we assert there is no authority in Hindu dharma, we could not be so wrong on this, off course there is or there are authorities as Lord a Krishna confirms;
    Therefore, let the scripture be your authority in determining what should be done and what should not be done. You should perform your duty following the scriptural injunction. (16.24)

    To say there is no authority in Hindu dharma would be pure fallacy.

    It is another matter, one is free to choose, to be or not to be, just as Krishna gives that choice to Arjun, finally the choice is ours.

    I have no problem and why should I, I am no authority on it to accept or reject an adoptee. Dharma is a way of life, culturally an adoptee poses a few dilemma, may find it difficult to adopt, or a host to accept,since an adoptee has its own baggage it would take a long time for acceptance for some or not at all. In due course of time every thing get assimilated I think.

    Jai Shree Krishna


    Jai Shree Krishna
    Rig Veda list only 33 devas, they are all propitiated, worthy off our worship, all other names of gods are derivative from this 33 originals,
    Bhagvat Gita; Shree Krishna says Chapter 3.11 devan bhavayatanena te deva bhavayantu vah parasparam bhavayantah sreyah param avapsyatha Chapter 17.4 yajante sattvika devan yaksa-raksamsi rajasah pretan bhuta-ganams canye yajante tamasa janah
    The world disappears in him. He is the peaceful, the good, the one without a second.

  2. #12
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    Re: answering those who say Hindu adoptees are adharmic

    Quote Originally Posted by anucarh View Post
    Namaste Ram ji,

    > Initiation into a particular tradition is optional and not compulsory.

    This part surprised me. I seem to be getting conflicting information on whether one has to be initiated to be a Śrī Vaiṣṇava. Sri Karalappakam Anantha Padhmanabhan and S.M. Srinivasa Chari see initiation as a requirement. I'll keep digging for information.

    Namaste Ji,

    What I told above is wrong.As said by the above learned persons initiation into a Sampradaya is required.

    Those who are born Hindu follow their family Sampradaya,this did not occur to me when I wrote that.They are members of their family Sampradaya and might be initiated when they are kids( or adults).Sorry,my bad.
    He dances in the golden hall of Chidambaram, Let us worship His rosy anklet girt Feet.

  3. #13
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    Re: answering those who say Hindu adoptees are adharmic

    Namaste Ganeshprasad ji,

    Quote Originally Posted by Ganeshprasad View Post
    in our haste to be all inclusive, we assert there is no authority in Hindu dharma, we could not be so wrong on this, off course there is or there are authorities as Lord a Krishna confirms;
    Therefore, let the scripture be your authority in determining what should be done and what should not be done. You should perform your duty following the scriptural injunction. (16.24)
    I didn't say that or may be I was not clear in my post. I said there is no authority which decides whether you are a Hindu or not. Because no such precondition has been prescribed in our Scriptures for adjudging that.

    OM
    "Om Namo Bhagvate Vaasudevaye"

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    Re: answering those who say Hindu adoptees are adharmic

    Pranam devotee ji


    Quote Originally Posted by devotee View Post
    Namaste Ganeshprasad ji,

    ----I said there is no authority which decides whether you are a Hindu or not. Because no such precondition has been prescribed in our Scriptures for adjudging that.

    OM



    But there is if not one single authority but in the form of general consensus how else we would have words like Malecha or Yavana etc to describe those who do not conform to Hindu way of life.

    Take for example with some of the new adoptee there exists new groups seeking or demanding acceptance of gay or lesbian group, now how is that possible when for a true Hindu or a orthodox Hindu, one has to learn to give up the urges of the senses, control the senses and here we have a group seek acceptance which runs against the grain unnatural in the eyes off most, lust of any kind is contrary to what lord Krishna says in the Gita
    BG 3.37
    sri-bhagavan uvaca
    kama esa krodha esa
    rajo-guna-samudbhavah
    mahasano maha-papma
    viddhy enam iha vairinam

    The Supreme Lord said: It is Kaama and anger born of mode passion. Kaama is insatiable and is a great paap(sin). Know this as the enemy. (3.37)

    No wonder there will always be some unable or unwilling to accept the adoptee, personally I well come anyone who wants to adopt Hindu way of life but I would encourage everyone to not hide their new found ways if possible take the blessings of ones parents now that is a Hindu way.



    Jai Shree Krishna
    Rig Veda list only 33 devas, they are all propitiated, worthy off our worship, all other names of gods are derivative from this 33 originals,
    Bhagvat Gita; Shree Krishna says Chapter 3.11 devan bhavayatanena te deva bhavayantu vah parasparam bhavayantah sreyah param avapsyatha Chapter 17.4 yajante sattvika devan yaksa-raksamsi rajasah pretan bhuta-ganams canye yajante tamasa janah
    The world disappears in him. He is the peaceful, the good, the one without a second.

  5. #15
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    Re: answering those who say Hindu adoptees are adharmic

    Namaste Ganeshprasad ji,

    Quote Originally Posted by Ganeshprasad View Post
    But there is if not one single authority but in the form of general consensus how else we would have words like Malecha or Yavana etc to describe those who do not conform to Hindu way of life.
    I won't be able to comment on Mlechcha ( I don't know what that means) but let me tell you that as per Manusmriti, many foreigners were certainly accommodated within Hindu Dharma e.g. Huns, Kushanas, Combojas, Yavanas. They adopted Hindu way of life and they were accomodated within Hundu Dharma without any conversion ceremony taking place. If you are interested, I can quote from Manusmriti to prove the point.

    Take for example with some of the new adoptee there exists new groups seeking or demanding acceptance of gay or lesbian group, now how is that possible when for a true Hindu or a orthodox Hindu, one has to learn to give up the urges of the senses, control the senses and here we have a group seek acceptance which runs against the grain unnatural in the eyes off most, lust of any kind is contrary to what lord Krishna says in the Gita
    Agree with you. Though Hindus have no issues in accepting people in Hindu fold but there has been long tradition to declare a person as outcaste from Hindu society if he/she is found indulging in any act which can be seen as unbecoming of a Hindu. And the society has been very strict on this issue.

    Hindus are very passionate about it and I think that has taken care that such elements are not accepted in Hindu society or even if they are adopted, they are driven out if they don't behave in proper manner.

    No wonder there will always be some unable or unwilling to accept the adoptee, personally I well come anyone who wants to adopt Hindu way of life but I would encourage everyone to not hide their new found ways if possible take the blessings of ones parents now that is a Hindu way.
    Agreed.

    OM
    "Om Namo Bhagvate Vaasudevaye"

  6. #16

    Re: answering those who say Hindu adoptees are adharmic

    Namaste anucarh,

    Many good points have been raised by others. One thing that I think is important is the origin of the word 'Hindu' itself. Since the origin of the word itself is geographical/regional, I think it has lent credibility to this stupid idea (that westerners cannot adopt hinduism).

    This is one reason that I like the word Sanatan Dharma over Hinduism. It conveys much more depth and is more accurate than the latter.

  7. #17
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    Re: answering those who say Hindu adoptees are adharmic

    Quote Originally Posted by kumar_s View Post
    Namaste anucarh,

    Many good points have been raised by others. One thing that I think is important is the origin of the word 'Hindu' itself. Since the origin of the word itself is geographical/regional, I think it has lent credibility to this stupid idea (that westerners cannot adopt hinduism).

    This is one reason that I like the word Sanatan Dharma over Hinduism. It conveys much more depth and is more accurate than the latter.
    Namaste kumar_s,

    I see what you mean. This makes sense. I have not been consistent in avoiding the word "Hinduism." I think I'll avoid it entirely from now on, not only for its misleading geographical connotations, but also because the word is the invention of Westerners in 1809 and sanātana dharma is more than another "-ism." I suppose even the word "Hindu" is avoidable, as one could call oneself a sanātana dharmī.

    Thank you for the observation.

    praṇām
    śrīmate nārāyaṇāya namaḥ

  8. #18

    Re: answering those who say Hindu adoptees are adharmic

    Quote Originally Posted by anucarh View Post
    In another (non-Hindu) forum in which I participate, the subject of Hindu adoptees came up. At least three Hindu members said that no one is permitted to become a Hindu, that you are either born a Hindu or you aren't one.
    I have heard this argument very often in my life, but always, always, always from non-Hindus, mostly persons who call themselves Christians. Other Hindus, even born Hindus, reacted very positively on non-born-Hindus. Indian Hindus normally like it, when foreigners practice their religion. Maybe there are born-Hindus, who think that way, but I never meet one, not in India and not on Facebook, where I am in many Hindu-groups and have got more than 600 Hindu friends from all over the world. I never have heard such thing from any Hindu there.

    I think this question only occur from a wrong understanding of Sanatana Dharma. Sanatana Dharma is the old religion. In the past it was not limited on India, it used to be the religion of the whole world. So coming to Sanatana Dharma means coming back to the origin. Everyone should follow the religion he or she is drawn to. It is wrong to try to force people in some way.

  9. #19
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    Re: answering those who say Hindu adoptees are adharmic

    hariḥ oṁ
    ~~~~~~
    namasté

    Quote Originally Posted by Kali_Devotee View Post
    I think this question only occur from a wrong understanding of Sanatana Dharma. Sanatana Dharma is the old religion. In the past it was not limited on India, it used to be the religion of the whole world. So coming to Sanatana Dharma means coming back to the origin.
    If one aligns sanātana dharma to the truest definition of religion¹ , then it is spot on. If one aligns it to today's definition it is far from the dogma we find today.

    And this sanātana dharma ? It is considered ārṣa dharma; ārṣa is that which belongs or is or derived from ṛṣi-s (seers, kavi). Why is this worth mentioning ? Because it suggests that our sanātana dharma comes to us by direct cognition. It wasn't deduced or inferred but directly cognized (pravṛtti) within the field of pure Being; some say within cit-ākāśa. Others say it is śruti or what is directly heard or revealed to the ṛṣi-s. This 'heard or revealed' = cognized by the seers.

    iti śivaṁ



    1. religion - please look this up; it is latin for bindng one back to the source. religare 'to bind fast'; re - to bring back.
    यतस्त्वं शिवसमोऽसि
    yatastvaṁ śivasamo'si
    because you are identical with śiva

    _

  10. #20

    Re: answering those who say Hindu adoptees are adharmic

    Quote Originally Posted by Kali_Devotee View Post
    I have heard this argument very often in my life, but always, always, always from non-Hindus, mostly persons who call themselves Christians. Other Hindus, even born Hindus, reacted very positively on non-born-Hindus. Indian Hindus normally like it, when foreigners practice their religion. Maybe there are born-Hindus, who think that way, but I never meet one, not in India and not on Facebook, where I am in many Hindu-groups and have got more than 600 Hindu friends from all over the world. I never have heard such thing from any Hindu there.
    I must say that it is the same case with me. I have seen this argument (need to be born Hindu) multiple times on forums & message boards. However, I do not know of single born Hindu who holds this opinion ! Actually, when I first read it on message boards I was quite taken aback, because in India you see so many westerners adopt Hinduism.

    Pranam.

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