Page 2 of 3 FirstFirst 123 LastLast
Results 11 to 20 of 22

Thread: A bit more light...

  1. #11
    Join Date
    September 2006
    Age
    71
    Posts
    7,705
    Rep Power
    223

    Re: A bit more light...

    hari o
    ~~~~~~
    namaste

    Quote Originally Posted by Necromancer View Post
    I realise it's all an illusion, the body...the world...yet this body is forced to exist in this world - both being the same part of that illusory nature. The Soul is only 'witness' to it.
    This is pending one's school of thought... within kaśmir śaivism the world is not an illusion, but none other then the Supreme in a condensed form. Māyā too is looked at differently - not as the culprit but of that power that allows the Supreme to 'throttle down' into differences i.e. diversity.

    So, the wise tell us to know the Self you forget the world , to know the world you forget the Self. This is worthy of one's comprehension.
    The key is perfectly forgetting and that brings one to the turīya level of Being.

    iti śiva

    1. the wise quoted here is śrīnisarga-datta maharāj
    Last edited by yajvan; 30 October 2013 at 01:45 PM.
    यतस्त्वं शिवसमोऽसि
    yatastvaṁ śivasamo'si
    because you are identical with śiva

    _

  2. #12
    Join Date
    September 2006
    Age
    71
    Posts
    7,705
    Rep Power
    223

    Re: A bit more light...

    hari o
    ~~~~~~~~
    namaste

    So a human ( paśu¹) reads the following from ramaṇa mahaṛṣi¹ :
    meditation is meant to get rid of obstacles and not meant to gain the Self.

    The human with limited comprhension thinks 'oh, so meditation is the process to remove obstacles in life, and this pursuit of Self via meditation is secondary or of little import. In fact, gaining the Self is not associated with meditation or is not an area of interest.'

    This is a blunder that can occur when a person is not attentive to the teaching. For the person that 'gets it' he/she hears something completely different. There is a key word in mahaṛṣi-ji's sentence is that of gain.

    One cannot gain the Self as that infers it was missing to begin with. So , with meditation one is removing the ~obstacles~ for this Self (ātmā) to shine though fully.
    It is like being underneath a tree and looking up though the branches and leaves to see the sun. The sun is shining in full , yet from your vantage point looking though the branches we catch some rays of the sun. Does the sun need to be ~gained~ ? It never stops shining. Like that the Self is always there , we just need to move some of the leaves and branches or just step away from the tree to be in the full light of the sun.

    This, IMHO should help the aspirant . Knowing that the Self is always there, it is not to be 'purchased' by meditation. This meditation and other tools e.g. vicāra¹, bhakti, etc. are the tools to remove the obstacles .

    iti śiva
    words

    • paśu or paśúnā - any tethered animal, singularly or collectively
      • 'a herd '; 5 kinds are enumerated , " men , kine , horses , goats and sheep "
      • paśutā - the state of an animal
      • paśutva - (with māheśvara-s and pāśupata-s) the being the individual soul
      • paśavya - belonging to a herd; a herd or drove of cattle
    • This is found in Talks With Ramaṇa Mahaṛṣi , chapter 4, that took place in 1938.
    • vicāra - pondering, inquiry, consideration , reflection , examination , investigation.
    यतस्त्वं शिवसमोऽसि
    yatastvaṁ śivasamo'si
    because you are identical with śiva

    _

  3. #13
    Join Date
    September 2006
    Age
    71
    Posts
    7,705
    Rep Power
    223

    Re: A bit more light...

    hari o
    ~~~~~~~~
    namaste

    I wrote,
    We are dealing with ātma-vidya ( knowledge of the Self or svātman) and all the possible conditions of the human. Yet in terms of simplicity we can say the human condition exists on 3 levels:
    • completely unripe ( one does not even know they do not know)
    • ripening - an introduction to the Self and to the upliftment of the Self by the Self has begun
    • ripe - the individual is ready; it is now the time for 'the final piercing' as the wise call it.
    When one is unripe and wishes to know the Self, it is the desire of possessing an object. Some like to use the word 'objectifying'. That is, I want this SELF like I want any other object. It becomes an object for the ego to have. The ego feeds on 'more stuff' and this Self looks like it can be the catch of the day, so it may go after it.

    Since the unripe person may or may not be motivated sufficiently, once this SELF object does not come quickly, then it is tossed to the side of the road and another object to gain is pursued. The ego must eat!

    Yet for some ( and we are told few) continue the pursuit. They move to the ripening stage. Patience and persistence in one's practice is the tool. The ego is still in tact, yet the notion of knowing the Self continues to interest this person and one's abhyāsa¹ (repeated or permanent exercise , discipline) continues.

    Last we have the ripe person. No different then the ripe fruit on the tree. It has been nurtured by the sun (knowledge) and the moon ( experience). This person is ready for the final stroke. His/her re-recognition can come by the voice of the teacher, by touch, by a whisper, by an experience, by His grace, etc.. Just as ripe fruit may be dislodged from the branch by the slightest breeze, so is the same for the ripened adhikārin¹.

    Now in all 3 cases the ego is there; some may say the ego is big or the ego is small, yet it is still there. It is this ego which is the knot that is between the Self and the body-complex ( mind, emotions, intelligence, etc.).
    I wrote in another post:
    Between the purity of the stainless Self (ātman) and the body there resides this intangible link. It is so close to us that we miss it unless some inspection is done. This intangable link is the ego (āhamkara or 'I' maker or doer). It is called by another name also, cit-jaḍa-granthi or the knot (granthi) between cit (or chit ~consciousness~) and jaḍa (or stiffness, unintelligent) which is another name for the body. This ego (āhamkara) is the in-between link. It is this ~link~ that does the identifying.
    It is this knot that is quite subtle that people pass it up ; it is the ego that thinks of the 'doing' , that does the identifying with the body. This ego we know to be that very personal 'I'. I am this, that. I want this, that; I want to go here, there ; I do not want this, that.
    This 'I' is extremely personal... that is, very very close to you, so close that we as humans confuse this ego/I to be the real 'you'. That is one reason it is considered a knot and must made of aware of.

    Once this cit-jaḍa-granthi is properly taken care of we can use the term blown out (nirvāṇa - putting out, extinction , cessation, final emancipation) then this ego or what makes you exclusively you now takes on a universal status. But one must be clear that nothing was acquired, it is what was lost (the obstruction) has now been removed. The clouds move by to reveal the full rays of the sun. This sun is the fullness of Being and within us people have termed it the Self.

    So a reasonable question must be how does one manage to get rid of this ego ? If you let the ego handle it, it is like letting the thief become a policeman to arrest himself; it just does not work. So, what is one to do ?

    iti śivaṁ

    words
    • adhikārin - 'fit for'; one who is fit/ready ripe for the revelation of the Self.
    • abhyāsa - initially means reaching to; its secondary meaning is repeated or permanent exercise and also means
      the effort of the mind to remain in its unmodified condition of purity (sattva).
    Last edited by yajvan; 26 November 2013 at 07:24 PM.
    यतस्त्वं शिवसमोऽसि
    yatastvaṁ śivasamo'si
    because you are identical with śiva

    _

  4. #14
    Join Date
    September 2006
    Age
    71
    Posts
    7,705
    Rep Power
    223

    Re: A bit more light...

    hari o
    ~~~~~~~~
    namaste

    I wrote,
    This ego we know to be that very personal 'I'. I am this, that. I want this, that; I want to go here, there ; I do not want this, that. This 'I' is extremely personal... that is very very close to you, so close that we as humans confuse this ego/I to be the real 'you'

    Now this is very interesting (to me); if we take this line of thought it deposits us in a new position for the human experience.
    Let me explain.
    We know that 'I' is gramatically considered the 1st person ( a personal pronoun). When we refer to another person or
    thing it is considered the 2nd person e.g. you. And when addressing or considering the 3rd person we have he, she, it, they,
    them, etc.

    If this 'I' is blown out i.e. cit-jaḍa-granthi, or the ego which is exclusively 'me' , what then happens to the 2nd and 3rd person reference points ?
    If I do not identifiy with this 'I' ego any more, the limit of being exclusively 'me' , the boundries of 'me' have been broken and
    I take on a new experience of expansion. I therefore do not identify with the limitations of being the human ego. This is where
    the wise inform us of this boundless experience. There are many names for it but for now lets just say boundless.
    It is like a river that is constrained by the river-banks finally meets and flows into the ocean and the constraints are no more. The
    river no longer has the quality of 'river' and it becomes the boundless ocean. This is a meager example , but if gives one the ~feel~ for it.
    Someone said it is like a bottle of perfume. If one lifts off the top (ego) and just leaves the bottle alone, the fragrance fills the air. It
    is the natural tendency for the perfume to expand and go beyond the boundaries of its container.

    Like that , when the ego has been blown out the notion of becoming expanded, unbounded, is as natural to the human experience
    as it is to the river or the perfume. Yet what of the 2nd person and 3rd person ? These are relative to being the 1st person. This new person no longer sees others in relationship to the limits of an 'ego' me, but to the expanded vision of unbounded awareness.

    Then one's experience has changed significantly and the wise say that person really sees correctly for the first time.

    iti śivaṁ
    Last edited by yajvan; 26 November 2013 at 07:27 PM.
    यतस्त्वं शिवसमोऽसि
    yatastvaṁ śivasamo'si
    because you are identical with śiva

    _

  5. #15
    Join Date
    September 2006
    Age
    71
    Posts
    7,705
    Rep Power
    223

    Re: A bit more light...

    hari o
    ~~~~~~~~
    namaste

    I wrote,
    If this 'I' is blown out i.e. cit-jaḍa-granti, or the ego which is exclusively 'me'
    Let's take a look at this...
    • ahaṃ = aham = I
    • ahaṃkaraṇa = ahaṃ + karaṇa = I + doing , making , effecting , causing = 'I doer' = ego.
    Note the beauty of this ahaṃ . It is a+ha+. If we look to sasktā and it's devanāgarī script it begins with a (अ) and ends with ha (ह). This word-sound then informs us that a+ha contains all that can be said or thought, or expressed as it contains all the phonemes that make up all the sound-vibrations that are found in nature, from a to ha. ( we will add the ṃ idea in the next post). That is, a+ha are like bookends, containing all (meaning all of creation) in between them ; that is, every phoneme (sound vibration) within devanāgarī¹ ( city of the deva-s) contains and is the vibrations found within the creative intelligence in all of this universe ( including you!).

    So , why bring this up ? Because we're talking ~finer~ points of understanding.
    The "I" that we wish to blow out is this ahaṃkaraṇa or 'I doer', which by inspection is different then ahaṃ. This is where there is the possibility for confusion. This 'I doer' is the ego. It is what was previously called cit-jaḍa-granti or the knot¹. And even with this ahaṃ on a grand scale is not localized. To say 'I' we tend to get local, personal and individualized.

    This ahaṃ is none other then being Universal. We get this clue by its first letter 'a'. This is another name for viṣṇu who is all pervading, non localized. This 'a' is also considered śiva when we inspect the origins of devanāgarī though the works of pāṇini-ji¹ and others. So would we wish to blow out ahaṃ ? I'd say not. It is by blowing out ahaṃkaraṇa (ego) that what remains is ahaṃ ( universal , non-divided awareness).

    So, once again it goes back to words that can cause mischief.

    iti śivaṁ
    • nāgarī - relating or belonging to a town or city , town-like ; spoken in a town
      • fyi only : nagāri - of a man ; nāgāri is a serpent foe, we sometimes think of the word naga or serpent; naga is also means 'not moving' can infer a mountain.
    • knot - see post 13 above.
    • pāṇini - known for his aṣṭādhyāyī or 8 chapters of the rules of grammar; some tell us his work is from the 4th century B.C.
      Some know of his work śivasūtrāṇi.
    यतस्त्वं शिवसमोऽसि
    yatastvaṁ śivasamo'si
    because you are identical with śiva

    _

  6. #16
    Join Date
    September 2006
    Age
    71
    Posts
    7,705
    Rep Power
    223

    Re: A bit more light...

    hari o
    ~~~~~~~~
    namaste

    There is nothing you must do or change to be what you are; however there is something you must recognize in order to stop being what you are not... mūji ¹

    Finding out who you are not is the preverbal search ( as I see it ) where many are trying to find out who they are. This is most curious.
    Rāmaa mahaṛṣi said it this way: There is no greater mystery then this - ourselves being the Reality, we seek to gain Reality. ( He then quotes the yogavasișțharāmāyaṇa (yoga-vasișțha-rāmāyaṇa) and says, what is real is hidden from us but what is false is revealed as true.

    iti śivaṁ


    1. mūji is the śiya of papaji (Hariwansh Lal Poonja), who in turn was the śiya of rāmaa mahaṛṣi.
    यतस्त्वं शिवसमोऽसि
    yatastvaṁ śivasamo'si
    because you are identical with śiva

    _

  7. #17
    Join Date
    September 2006
    Age
    71
    Posts
    7,705
    Rep Power
    223

    Re: A bit more light...

    hari o
    ~~~~~~~~
    namaste
    Quote Originally Posted by yajvan View Post

    There is nothing you must do or change to be what you are; however there is something you must recognize in order to stop being what you are not...

    This is at the heart of what is offered in the pratyabhijñāhṛdayam¹ found within kaśmir śaivism's frame of reference of Reality. This word pratyabhijñāhṛdayaṁ means the re-recognition of ones Self - in this word hdya is used as ~heart~ or the inner most , most dear, and hence the Self.

    iti śivaṁ
    • pratyabhijñāhṛdayam - this is twenty sūtra-s written by Kṣemarāja . It is the nectar ( or condensed version) of utpaladeva-ji's Īśvarapratyabhijñā which offers 199 sūtra-s
    यतस्त्वं शिवसमोऽसि
    yatastvaṁ śivasamo'si
    because you are identical with śiva

    _

  8. #18
    Join Date
    September 2006
    Age
    71
    Posts
    7,705
    Rep Power
    223

    Re: A bit more light...

    hari o
    ~~~~~~~~
    namaste

    Quote Originally Posted by yajvan View Post

    This is at the heart of what is offered in the pratyabhijñāhṛdayam¹ found within kaśmir śaivism's frame of reference of Reality. This word pratyabhijñāhṛdayaṁ means the re-recognition of ones Self - in this word hdya is used as ~heart~ or the inner most , most dear, and hence the Self.
    And what is this ? This being's re-recognition is that of the avadhūta:

    avadhūta = a + va + dhū + ta - one who has shaken off worldly obligation. But if we look deeper we see the significance of this word-form:
    • a = a name of viṣṇu or śiva - in both cases we are talking of expansiveness and perfect silence
    • va = a dwelling ; the ocean ; auspiciousness
    • dhū = shake off , remove , liberate one's self from
    • ta = has mutiple meanings - a warrior; a jewel ; virtue
    It is that virtuous (ta) person who has shaken off (dhū) the world of duality and dwells (va) in the ocean (va) of auspiciousness of perfect silence and expansiveness (a).

    If we look to the avadhūta gīta ( 8th chapter) each phoneme ( akṣara¹) is reviewed by dattātreya-ji, the author, and great sage.

    iti śivaṁ

    1. akṣara - syllable; also means imperishable ; also means viṣṇu or śiva
    यतस्त्वं शिवसमोऽसि
    yatastvaṁ śivasamo'si
    because you are identical with śiva

    _

  9. #19
    Join Date
    September 2006
    Age
    71
    Posts
    7,705
    Rep Power
    223

    Re: A bit more light...

    hari o
    ~~~~~~~~
    namaste

    ...yajvan, if I am this peace, this wholeness you talk of , why do I not feel peaceful ? Why is there this agitation ?

    iti śivaṁ
    यतस्त्वं शिवसमोऽसि
    yatastvaṁ śivasamo'si
    because you are identical with śiva

    _

  10. #20
    Join Date
    September 2006
    Age
    71
    Posts
    7,705
    Rep Power
    223

    Re: A bit more light...

    hari o
    ~~~~~~~~
    namaste
    Quote Originally Posted by yajvan View Post
    ...yajvan, if I am this peace, this wholeness you talk of , why do I not feel peaceful ? Why is there this agitation ?

    iti śivaṁ
    This is a most interesting question. I take my support from what śrīnisargadatta maharāj offers...
    He says ( to a questioner) it is not your real Being that is restless but its reflection in the mind appears restless because the mind is restless. It is just like the reflection of the moon in water ( a lake) that is stirred up by the wind.

    It is the winds of the desire to experience. This sturs up the 'me' ( egoness) of one's self Which is none other then a reflection of Self that resides within the field of doing and actions. This mind is always changeful , going from this to that without much effort. These are the ripples on the lake. These movements can be considered restlessness. For some it is the restlessness of seeking pleasures and avoiding pain.
    This Self ( that is none other then our-Selves, it is nothing else) is behind the mind, aware but of little involvement ( unconcerned) with the throws of daily life. This is why this level of Being is so stable and worthy of merit.

    But the person asks maharāj-ji, how to reach this Self ?
    He responds , you are the Self here and now. Leave the mind alone, stand aware and unconcerned...
    This notion is continued by him saying, discover all that you are not - body, feelings, thoughts, ideas, time, space, being and not being this or that ( referring to one's career, position in life, etc) - nothing concrete or abstract you can point to is you (meaning Self).

    This for the ~average~ aspirant takes some getting use to because it challenges the notion of who you think you are ( student, parent, good person, bad person, priest, fund raiser, soccer player, astronaut, ticker tape manager, dancer, citizen, butcher , baker, candlestick maker, etc.)

    Now the key ( from my point of view) is what sādhana¹ is all about. It is those approaches that allow your SELF (with either eyes opened or eyes closed) to be revealed... for a moment or longer. It allows you to come to the conclusion or at the least form an opinion of what you are and what you are not.

    iti śivaṁ

    1. sādhana - a means of effecting or accomplishing , any agent or instrument or implement or utensil or apparatus , an expedient; we have taken this word to mean the approach in spiritual pursuits.
    Last edited by yajvan; 17 July 2014 at 04:22 PM.
    यतस्त्वं शिवसमोऽसि
    yatastvaṁ śivasamo'si
    because you are identical with śiva

    _

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Similar Threads

  1. Speed of Light
    By sarabhanga in forum Mera Bharat Mahan
    Replies: 12
    Last Post: 27 September 2013, 09:56 PM
  2. The Uncorrupted Revelation as Experienced by John the Divine
    By WhiteLikeWool in forum Abrahamic Religions (Closed For Posting)
    Replies: 8
    Last Post: 17 May 2010, 05:18 PM
  3. Vedanta Sutra - read this translation
    By Mohini Shakti Devi in forum Vedas & Brahmanas
    Replies: 12
    Last Post: 03 May 2010, 11:58 AM
  4. KSITIGARBHA PURVAPRANIDHANA SUTRA
    By shian in forum Buddhism
    Replies: 12
    Last Post: 03 June 2008, 12:12 AM
  5. Some questions on HK
    By Yogkriya in forum Hare Krishna (ISKCON)
    Replies: 11
    Last Post: 06 August 2007, 02:03 PM

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •