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Thread: Neurology Conflicts with Atman?

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    Neurology Conflicts with Atman?

    Namaste,

    For those of us who believe that the atman is partially defined as "unchanging awareness, pure consciousness" or "sense of being", I noticed something about what scientists have concluded about the brain that seems troubling and would appreciate others feedback and opinions.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Insular_cortex

    The Insular Cortex in the brain is stated to be the seat of awareness in the body. In fact, looking at the encyclopedia article, it goes as far to say it's the source of even "sense of agency" and also discusses it is the reason why we perceive being in the body, which i take to mean even just being. So what's concerning is that what if our pure consciousness is physical and ultimately subject to destruction?
    asato ma sad gamaya
    tamaso ma jyotir gamaya
    mrutyor ma amritam gamaya

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    Re: Neurology Conflicts with Atman?

    Quote Originally Posted by seekinganswers View Post
    Namaste,

    For those of us who believe that the atman is partially defined as "unchanging awareness, pure consciousness" or "sense of being", I noticed something about what scientists have concluded about the brain that seems troubling and would appreciate others feedback and opinions.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Insular_cortex

    The Insular Cortex in the brain is stated to be the seat of awareness in the body. In fact, looking at the encyclopedia article, it goes as far to say it's the source of even "sense of agency" and also discusses it is the reason why we perceive being in the body, which i take to mean even just being. So what's concerning is that what if our pure consciousness is physical and ultimately subject to destruction?
    The consciousness measured by neuro-scientists in their scans is the function of brain in action or mind at work. But the consciousness as per Advaita is quite different from it. The Brahman animates the brain and the fact that translation of Brahman as consciousness is causing all the confusion. I don't understand why can't neuroscientists start thinking on the lines - people who are in deep coma clearly can't respond to senses but what's keeping them alive? Of course they say some areas of brain is dead which seems ridiculous to me. I have seen few articles, books and one TED video all pointing to the illusion of consciousness.

    Neuro-scientists have long way to go because I see that their hypothesis itself is misleading that brain alone generates the consciousness of awareness through sense organs. I hope the technology becomes sophisticated enough to power a dead brain so that they can realise they were wrong all along.
    ॐ महेश्वराय नमः

    || Om Namo Bhagavate Rudraya ||

    Hara Hara Mahadeva Shambo Shankara

  3. #3

    Re: Neurology Conflicts with Atman?

    Thank you for your feedback on this possible faith vs science conflict. I think from a scientific perspective, a person whose in a coma is kept alive because there's electrical impulses that are still active in areas of the brain required for keeping breathing and heart beat active (such as the brain stem). Someone who is in a coma, their mind is not active because the frontal lobes are receiving reduced activity as a survival mechanism so most of the "energy" (electrical impulses, neurotransmitters) are able to maintain the very basic requirements for life- breathing, heart rate.

    I believe there are cases where if a coma is caused by a situation that reduces oxygen to the brain, or getting hit on the head, then if the person does wake up, he or she, displays symptoms of traumatic brain injury, including learning difficulties, altered personality, emotional disturbances, etc. Some individuals are able to recover through rehabilitation, such as a man who has issues walking can be trained to walk without struggle.

    I agree with what you say that neuro-scientists have a misleading hypothesis that the brain alone generates awareness. At least at this point in time, scientists are yet to provide a convincing argument for why awareness even occurs through the brain, because so far, they all point to consciousness being a behavior, when we all know that is not the case, consciousness (and i mean awareness) is, and doesn't require doing.
    asato ma sad gamaya
    tamaso ma jyotir gamaya
    mrutyor ma amritam gamaya

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    Re: Neurology Conflicts with Atman?

    Namaste.

    I am just going to put the case forward for the Pineal Gland.

    Neurology doesn't conflict with Atman because they are in entirely different sheaths (Koshas).

    Certain structures within the brain needs awakening, but the effect isn't psychological.

    Aum Namah Shivaya

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    Re: Neurology Conflicts with Atman?

    Namaste,
    Quote Originally Posted by seekinganswers View Post
    The Insular Cortex in the brain is stated to be the seat of awareness in the body. ......... So what's concerning is that what if our pure consciousness is physical and ultimately subject to destruction?
    The Insular Cortex is defined as the seat of awareness, not the awareness itself. So where is the conflict?

    Pranam.

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    Re: Neurology Conflicts with Atman?

    Quote Originally Posted by Believer View Post
    Namaste,

    The Insular Cortex is defined as the seat of awareness, not the awareness itself. So where is the conflict?

    Pranam.
    Greetings,

    One potential conflict is that according to some teachers, like Ramana Maharshi, the seat of awareness -- for those who identify with the body -- is the Heart (felt just the right of the physical heart, and different from the heart chakra):

    "Question: You have said that the Heart is the centre of the Self.

    Bhagavan: Yes, it is the one supreme centre of the Self. You need have no doubt about it. The real Self is there in the Heart behind the jiva or ego-self.

    Question: Now be pleased to tell me where it is in the body.

    Bhagavan: You cannot know it with your mind. You cannot realise it by imagination when I tell you here is the centre [pointing to the right side of the chest]. The only direct way to realise it is to cease to fantasise and try to be yourself. When you realise, you automatically feel that the centre is there. This is the centre, the Heart, spoken of in the scriptures as hrit-guhaarul [grace], ullam [the Heart].
    "
    "Everybody wants to see God but nobody wants to do any sadhana." -- Swami Sivananda
    "You can advance only through karma yoga; by karma yoga you may benefit others also....Only hard work can make a person powerful and energetic." -- Haidakhan Babaji
    "Do everything you do as Śivathondu." -- Yogaswami

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    Re: Neurology Conflicts with Atman?

    Quote Originally Posted by seekinganswers View Post
    Namaste,

    For those of us who believe that the atman is partially defined as "unchanging awareness, pure consciousness" or "sense of being", I noticed something about what scientists have concluded about the brain that seems troubling and would appreciate others feedback and opinions.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Insular_cortex

    The Insular Cortex in the brain is stated to be the seat of awareness in the body. In fact, looking at the encyclopedia article, it goes as far to say it's the source of even "sense of agency" and also discusses it is the reason why we perceive being in the body, which i take to mean even just being. So what's concerning is that what if our pure consciousness is physical and ultimately subject to destruction?
    According to Indian Psychology, mind and brain are two different things. We don't give a damn what modern science says.

  8. #8

    Re: Neurology Conflicts with Atman?

    Dear Friends,
    There is a purely logical flaw in concluding Awareness Changes .

    Suppose Awareness ... a change is always w.r.t a changeless presence [relativity of motion]. So what is that changeless presence ?

    Neurology studies brain, and maps it to mind [qualia]
    certain neurons fire and i see color. The first part is brain, second part is mind.
    so when i say awareness changes ... what they are actually observing is that some neuron's fire and when those neuron's fire one is "conscious" ... observationally.
    so we need not even consider neuron firing...

    For example suppose i say : in deep sleep there is no awareness... how have i come to this conclusion ? Its purely mental conclusion... i then see that some neurons are not firing in the brain ... and then map: since these neurons are not firing, there is no consciousness.

    but the first conclusion "there is no awareness in deep sleep" to which i have mapped the neuron not firing is really a logical flaw. since , if there was no awareness ... there is no possibility of seeing a change! infact there is no possibility of knowing that there is such a state. if i know that there is a state of total lack of awareness ... it presupposes the existence of awareness !

    This is purely logical flaw... study of neural dynamics aids us in understanding brain as an instrument better ... but there it ends.

    Love!
    Silence
    Come up, O Lions, and shake off the delusion that you are a sheep

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