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    Question about Meat, Alcohol, and Sex

    Okay, I was reading this article online about Hindus and Muslims in the US (I think) and how while they have no problem having sex, drinking, or doing drugs, if they see a fellow Hindu or Muslim eating beef or pork, then it's automatically blasphemy.

    I was reading the comments of the article and it said apparently that it's not forbidden for Hindus to do stuff like that because ancient Indians had to eat beef for survival and it was considered a good food for Brahmins. Here's the link to the comments.

    http://www.chicagoflame.com/home/ind...9-229c70a5c1e8

    Now my parents are from a very conservative Hindu sect which forbids eating meat (onion and garlic too, but I don't really follow that lol), drinking alcohol, doing drugs, or pre-marital sex. I'm not going go do all that stuff if it isn't, but I'm pretty confused.

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    Re: Question about Meat, Alcohol, and Sex

    Vannakkam bp789:

    Everyone is entitled to their opinion. But the opinions expressed by those commenters regarding sex, drugs are all okay but meat eating isn't is just ludicrous from almost 99% of Hindus point of view. Of course the western media, controlled by Christians, secularists, and atheists does whatever it can to portray Hindus as idiotic.

    Just read around these forums and you'll find out what most more traditional people think.

    Aum Namasivaya

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    Re: Question about Meat, Alcohol, and Sex

    If you drink alcohol or do drugs, you're harming your own body. However, if you eat meat (especially beef) you're responsible for taking the life of another creature solely for your own sense gratification (and cows are sacred in Hinduism). Premarital sex is more a social taboo, it's not really hurting anyone if both parties consent but rather causing shame to traditional Hindu families.

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    Re: Question about Meat, Alcohol, and Sex

    If meat alcohol, drugs and sex are prohibited in Hinduism than the whole country of Nepal and most himalayan regions must follow some other religion
    Almost everybody in Nepal is using bhang at least on Shivaratri, even if the US goverment, especially the Reagan administration tried the utmost to outlaw drug use, still the king was donating 500 kg charas to the sadhus and shiva devotees assembled at Pashupatinath every year to celebrate Mahashivaratri according to the ancient customs.
    At dashain (durgapuja) even in the household of a pious vaishnava brahmin where i was living, 3 goats where sacrificed and the meat was eaten as prasad by all. Many nepali hindus have the custom to go to dakshinkali temple every saturday to offer a goat or chicken and some alcohol and they gather for a family picnic to eat and drink the prasad in the surrounding of the temple. There is also a Festival (Indra Jatra) dedicated to Indra and Bhairava where out of the mouth of a huge metal murti of the head of Bhairava alcohol is spouting in a continous stream and everybody goes there and drink it directly from the mouth of the deity. Of course other places have other customs especialy in the south of india people are quite different from the Himalayan region and the west, north and east of india. But even in the south, for instance in kerala, especially the non brahmin castes, have customs like pashu bali, alcohol and drug use which are celebrated side by side with vegetarian bali and brahmin customs at the same festivals until recent times. With the rise and domination of the monotheistic cults like Islam and Christianity many of these ancient religious customs were demonized as immoral, suppressed, ignored, outlawed or obliterated.

    Sveta Bhairava, the white bhairava in Nepal opens the doors only during Indra jatra. Devotee drinks the Alcohol

    Devotees lining up for drinking the alcohol from Bhairavas mouth

    Very good pictures from Dakshinkali: follow this link:

    http://www.marcellogambini.it/Dakshin%20Kali.htm
    Last edited by MahaHrada; 18 June 2010 at 09:10 AM.

  5. #5

    Re: Question about Meat, Alcohol, and Sex

    Hi bp,

    I really don't know about the history of beef eating in India and so cannot comment on it. It is probable that the idea of the cow being sacred came at a particular point in history, rather than being a sentiment held sincethe begining of mankind. Whatever though, what people thought or think does not affect my sentiments toward cows, which I have lived with for a number of years and can vouch for their beautiful and loving nature. I would never want to cause harm to a cow, and I equally dislike the idea of hurting any sentient creature for good and logical reasons.

    As for the sex and alcohol, I think that this is easier to understand that you may realise. People are silly. Its that simple. Really quite ridiculous, absurd, exasperating. Whatever. That's what humans are/can be.
    I think that people focus so much on things like beef or pork/ham eating because it is more unique whereas sex and alcohol are considered no-nos by so many groups. And most do it anyway, so its easier to overlook or ignore.

    I also think that a lot of people realise that the idea of illicit sex is contextual. Of course it was a bad idea throughout history and in cultures where women have so little power next to men that falling pregnant outside of marriage was a horrible situation for the woman and child. It still can lead to bad situations now, but people have more excuses now- contraceptives, women can be independent and work, get government support etc. And don't forget that its such a huge physical temptation that the fat that society is sex-crazed makes it near impossible to abstain and I think people in general can excuse it easily.

    Alcohol is something else. I don't think people are aware of all the things that various religious groups are and are not aupposed to do. I don't think it ever occurred to my friends to question my consumption of alcohol (on those rare occasions that I actually had some). I don't think they realised that its a no-no. Hell, lots of them are Christian but that doesn't stop them.

    So in other words, it comes down to the fact that being forbidden cow/pig is unique and thus a kind of symbol that people come to associate with that particular religion, unlike sex and alcohol which are hardly unique at all- quite boring really, and thus easy to ignore.
    "For a bewildered person in the materialistic way of life, the body, the mind and the senses, which are engaged in sense gratification, are the cause of bondage to repeated birth, death, old age and disease. But for one who is advanced in spiritual knowledge, the same body, senses and mind are the cause of liberation"
    Prabhupada.

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    Re: Question about Meat, Alcohol, and Sex

    consumption of meat , alcohol or sex etc are by no means prohibited in hinduism . it is very much there and sometimes within rituals itself !!

    but for a person desiring quick spiritual upliftment its best to put them aside along with evrything else that agitates the mind and delays the process of chittasuddhi .
    na kAshthe vidyate devo na shilAyam kadAchana
    bhAve hi vidyate devas-tasmAd-bhAvam samAcharet

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    Re: Question about Meat, Alcohol, and Sex

    Quote Originally Posted by MahaHrada View Post
    If meat alcohol, drugs and sex are prohibited in Hinduism than the whole country of Nepal and most himalayan regions must follow some other religion
    Such careless comments do irreparable damage to the image of Sanatan Dharma in minds who are new to this religion. You mean to say that entire population of Hindus in Himalayan region is mad after alcohol, drugs and sex in the name of religion ? Just google some words on Hinduism and give your expert comments, right ?

    First of all, very few Hindus subscribe to these rituals. Second, even those Hindus who do take a little of alcohol on such occasion do it only doing Bhairava Puja .... on other days it remains forbidden to most of them unless some are hardcore drinkers.

    You couldn't stop yourself to alcohol so added "drugs" too ! I hope you understand the wide range of banned substances for which the term "drugs" is used. Is it permissible to use all sorts of drugs in Hinduism ? Here again, these are limited to a very small section of Shaivites / Shaaktaas. Moreover, it is mostly limited to Bhaang and Gaanjaa and not open to all sorts of drugs. And these are used mainly by the Sadhus & not by common householder Hindus.

    And what about "sex" ? This has been used in almost extinct sects of Vamacharis. But the way you have tried to project, it appears as if it is a common ritual in Hinduism !

    Almost everybody in Nepal is using bhang at least on Shivaratri, even if the US goverment, especially the Reagan administration tried the utmost to outlaw drug use, still the king was donating 500 kg charas to the sadhus and shiva devotees assembled at Pashupatinath every year to celebrate Mahashivaratri according to the ancient customs.
    "Almost everybody" ?? How many Nepalis do you know and have lived with ?

    At dashain (durgapuja) even in the household of a pious vaishnava brahmin where i was living, 3 goats where sacrificed and the meat was eaten as prasad by all.Many nepali hindus have the custom to go to dakshinkali temple every saturday to offer a goat or chicken and some alcohol and they gather for a family picnic to eat and drink the prasad in the surrounding of the temple.
    Vaishnava Brahmin and eating meat and drinking alcohol ? Then they are certainly not Vaishnavas. "Vaishnavas going to Dakshinakail" shows your confusion. Moreover, even if it is true for one brahmin or one family .... how do you generalise for all Nepali Hindus in a sweeping manner ?

    Can we be a little careful and refrain from generalising things for the whole of Hindus ? The Aghoris too are Hindus and they live in burial grounds and even eat corpse meat ... does it mean that it applies to the whole Hindu society !

    In general, Hindus believe in Ahimsa & consider meat-eating a habit which the religious aspirants should avoid ... they don't approve use of drugs and sex outside marriage.

    OM
    "Om Namo Bhagvate Vaasudevaye"

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    Re: Question about Meat, Alcohol, and Sex

    Quote Originally Posted by devotee View Post
    Such careless comments....bleh blah rhubbabar.. baseless acussations... some more accusations equally baseless, another batch of bleh blah rhubaba....
    I will not react to your rant. What i wrote are only facts. I know there are some people here who wish to deny obliterate, outlaw and supress every custom and darshana that is not westernized and sanitized within bharata dharma. Of course i knew that some would even deny that a diversity of opinion and different customs exists, thats why i added some pictures as evidence. Otherwise people with no idea of Hinduism, bad intent and impure imagination would simply accuse me of lying. I for one am not ashamend but proud of the diversity and open mindedness and inclusiveness of Bharata Dharma. You are free to dislike and denigrate customs that are sacred for other Hindus and spread divisiveness, but do not call me a liar or careless.

    The point of several of my posts lately has been that unlike monotheistic cults, Hinduism does not know a universal law that is valid for everybody, or a universal lawgiver and enforcer, a judge over good and evil who created the world and humans to rule over it, a single "God". Yamas and Niyamas are different according to place, time and individual qualifications, thats why Hinduismis has not lead to the evils of monotheistic religions such as genocidal religious wars, mass murder of heretics, political power struggle and invasive wars, violent suppression of unbelivers and colonialisation etc. We don´t need a mullah hinduism with some "divine law" applicable to everybody, we better leave fatwas and "sharia" law to Islam and stick to adhikari bheda.
    Last edited by MahaHrada; 19 June 2010 at 07:00 AM.

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    Re: Question about Meat, Alcohol, and Sex

    Quote Originally Posted by bp789 View Post
    Okay, I was reading this article online about Hindus and Muslims in the US (I think) and how while they have no problem having sex, drinking, or doing drugs, if they see a fellow Hindu or Muslim eating beef or pork, then it's automatically blasphemy.

    I was reading the comments of the article and it said apparently that it's not forbidden for Hindus to do stuff like that because ancient Indians had to eat beef for survival and it was considered a good food for Brahmins. Here's the link to the comments.

    http://www.chicagoflame.com/home/ind...9-229c70a5c1e8

    Now my parents are from a very conservative Hindu sect which forbids eating meat (onion and garlic too, but I don't really follow that lol), drinking alcohol, doing drugs, or pre-marital sex. I'm not going go do all that stuff if it isn't, but I'm pretty confused.
    Namaste

    A lot of discussion on the subject has taken place in other threads and in this thread. I think, there is no reason to be confused. I think, Eastern Mind and Devotee have offered well meaning advise. Eastern Mind, has also shown link to scripture.

    Dharma shastra prohibits sura (alcohol) for brahmins and also advises against meat eating. Manu Smriti says that a land where gentle animals roam without fear is fit for performing sacrifices to Gods. Ahimsa is the keyword.

    Vigyan Bhairava tantra teaches more than 100 methods for attaining Shiva and only one method involves sexual act. Sexual act is not the mainstay of Tantric methods. Even with the method involving sexual union, CONTROL and retention of semen is the key. The method, as in Vigyan Bhairava, involves constant remembrance of mantra/japa during the intercourse. That hardly is indicative of wild abandon. Some western devotees act more hindu than born hindus and become angry when this is pointed out. It is true that alcohol and meat is offered to kAli mA, but that does not, I think, constitute a general path. Neither does it indicate hedonism. Rather it indicates that when one offers meat and liquor to God, one is fully centered. This is just the opposite of craving. Finally, Tantrik path itself is not the full hinduism.

    Although, Hinduism is actually not infected with prudishness of other religions, it is beyond doubt that indulgence with meat, alcohol, and sex is not recommended anywhere within hinduism.

    Regarding sacrifice of 'Bull' and worship of 'Cow', I fail to understand why we have so much confusion? Indra-Agni-Rudra-Varuna etc. are called BULLS. OM is called a BULL. Ego is a Bull. Sun is said to be the Bull in the sky. Sacrifice is of the Ego and/or Mind in favour of the gentle word (Vac), which is Gau (Cow) and Gauri (Mother) gets her name from that. Similarly, the primeval mind, which expanded and became the world is called asva - horse - the fast moving. Sacrifice of that full mind led to this variegated Universe and sacrifice of that fragmented mind brings it back to the stable, termed as immutable ocean in Brihadaraynaka Upanishad.

    Lastly, select that which makes you comfortable and without too much guilt. If your parents are vegetarians, it is, I think, unwise to adopt a contrary path.

    Om Namah Shivaya
    Last edited by atanu; 19 June 2010 at 03:28 PM. Reason: grammar
    That which is without letters (parts) is the Fourth, beyond apprehension through ordinary means, the cessation of the phenomenal world, the auspicious and the non-dual. Thus Om is certainly the Self. He who knows thus enters the Self by the Self.

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    Re: Question about Meat, Alcohol, and Sex

    Thanks Atanu, for clarifying that one !

    Some people from west feel that exceptions make the rule ! The tantrik paths involving sex for religious aspirations is almost dead in Hinduism and nowhere in the past too it was ever popular. It was a practice which never got approval of the general populace among Hindus.

    Can MahaHrada say he has seen such acts being realy performed in front of his eyes ? I can't say of the west but if it happens in India ... people involved in such acts whether Kashmir Shaivites or whatever, would find their place in Jail where they truly belong or if left for public to decide, would probably be killed.

    Use of wine for worshipping goddess Kaali ... I have not seen wine being freely distributed for consumption for the devotees as Prasaadam in Kaali Puja. In our homes too we worship Kaali but we never offer alcohol to mother goddess. I have not been in Bengal during Puja but I have stayed and lived in Assam for a long time & I have not seen people offering wine to mother goddess and then distributing it freely. It might be symbolic though in some places. Nowhere in North India or in South India one can see use of Alcohol during Puja except in some less popular Bhairava temple in the western part of India ... but that is a rare example.

    The animal sacrifice was prevalent in Shakti Puja but slowly it is also being replaced with sacrifices of some fruits or offering the animals without being killed. The reality is that great saints of these paths have not favoured indulging in such acts ... like killing of innocent animal or use of wine or sex (which is a clear no-no). For those who are new to Hinduism, let me tell them that the tantrik practice that MahaHrada mentions has very few followers today ... very few Hindus would like to associate with such practices ... may be MahaHrada is a rare one of those who practises it. But it is more of an exception & not a rule.

    Getting some news from some places ... getting a few pictures from some places ... posting it and portryaing it that it is a regular practice within the society is not correct. You can get pornographic picture of child abuse by some Hindus too ... so shall we post the picture and say that Hindus favour child sexual abuse ? Hinduism had many practices which were actually exceptions in all times (never got the approval of general masses .... many such self-styled tantriks have been prosecuted & also lynched by public in India from time to time for their ignorant and illigal practices & I would advise people to remain extremely careful while dealing with them ... "tantrik" word itself is something to be careful about) and most of these have slowly died out. These practices never represented mainstream Hinduism. This is not what real Hinduism is ... this is not what the Hindus are proud of ... Kashmir Shaivism, even in moderated form, without alcohol & sex, has very few followers.

    OM
    Last edited by devotee; 19 June 2010 at 05:15 PM.
    "Om Namo Bhagvate Vaasudevaye"

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