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Thread: Human Migrations into India

  1. #31
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    Re: Human Migrations into India

    Pranam

    Quote Originally Posted by Minotaur View Post


    But the important question is: when did Vyasa live? Why do you have to question Vyasa? I don't question that he wrote down the Vedas. He took one revelation and broke it into four. But what was the yuga in which he lived? And in what yuga were the Vedas revealed? Those are the important questions for me to help me understand what you believe. I'm open-minded enough, despite what some people may think.
    Ved Vyas is born to Parasar muni, before the Panavas, he is born near the end of Dwapar yug. Kaliyug began after the reign of Pariksit maharaj the grandson of Pandavas.
    Vedas are timeless revealed through various Rihis for this manvantar it would be in Satya yug.
    Vyasji is Literally incarnation of Vishnu, he narrated and Ganesh ji scribed it.

    Jai Shree Krishna
    Rig Veda list only 33 devas, they are all propitiated, worthy off our worship, all other names of gods are derivative from this 33 originals,
    Bhagvat Gita; Shree Krishna says Chapter 3.11 devan bhavayatanena te deva bhavayantu vah parasparam bhavayantah sreyah param avapsyatha Chapter 17.4 yajante sattvika devan yaksa-raksamsi rajasah pretan bhuta-ganams canye yajante tamasa janah
    The world disappears in him. He is the peaceful, the good, the one without a second.

  2. #32
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    Re: Human Migrations into India

    Quote Originally Posted by kallol View Post
    Artifacts from there are huge and dates back to 12000 BC. ...

    The penisular India is still to be discovered - particularly the submerged areas. Even in Mahabalipuram there are sunken temples and lots of structures submerged in the sea.

    See Milne's chart for inundation and you will find how far India has shrunk.
    About 10,000 years ago the ice sheets were in retreat, with sea levels rising. It should come as no surprise that cities built in coastal areas would be inundated under the rising sea. And cities are very often built where there is a plentiful food supply... as there is in the oceans. So they had the sea and they had farmland. They prospered, invented, flourished and then were sadly destroyed. We have no idea how much has been lost to history and the Earth's remarkable ability to erase the past.
    śivasya hridayam viṣṇur viṣṇoscha hridayam śivaḥ

  3. #33
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    Wink Re: Human Migrations into India

    Quote Originally Posted by Ganeshprasad View Post
    Pranam



    Ved Vyas is born to Parasar muni, before the Panavas, he is born near the end of Dwapar yug. Kaliyug began after the reign of Pariksit maharaj the grandson of Pandavas.
    OK, thank you. Now I understand your beliefs.

    Vedas are timeless revealed through various Rihis for this manvantar it would be in Satya yug.
    Vyasji is Literally incarnation of Vishnu, he narrated and Ganesh ji scribed it.

    Jai Shree Krishna
    I've seen images of Sri Ganesha writing while Vyasa dictated, and read that.

    Thank you for your explanations.

    Namaste.
    śivasya hridayam viṣṇur viṣṇoscha hridayam śivaḥ

  4. #34
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    Re: Human Migrations into India

    Quote Originally Posted by Minotaur View Post
    I was supporting and agreeing with what you said. And there are other people that read these posts, so it's not all about or directed at you. So I did not deserve that tongue-lashing. I find your attack on me indefensible and uncalled-for, not to mention demeaning and insulting. I am not here to insult or denigrate or detract from Hinduism. I am here to learn. I've supported and unequivocally stated the achievements of ancient Indians and Hinduism. But you didn't read those did you?
    My "attack" was not on you per se, but your parading of apparent erudition on the matter of Sanskrit and its origin. Sanskrit and its origins cannot be "reconstructed" as the people who propound the PIE language have claimed to have done. The entire PIE was reconstructed primarily using the Rig Veda; a seminal Hindu scripture.

    What you are/were saying is that you believe there is some "ancestor" to Sanskrit called the PIE because of the similarity between some European languages and itself. What I'm asking you is, "Why does there NEED to be a 'common ancestor'?" Sanskrit is considered Deva-bASyA in Hinduism; "language of the Gods". The word Sanskrit, or samskrutam in actuality, means 'that which is perfect'. Why or how could a brilliant language like Sanskrit have "descended" from some ancestral language? Related languages could have descended from Sanskrit itself. That is what Hindus believe. That is what the evidence of the fine structure of Sanskrit points to. In fact, according to Hinduism, pANinI, in deep meditation, saw SivA doing the tAndaV (dance) and heard the 14 bIjA mantras (root sounds). The rules for Sanskrit grammar are based on those bIjA mantras and the language itself is a DISCOVERED language as opposed to INVENTED.

    Quote Originally Posted by Minotaur View Post
    And if you refuse to believe that an ancient ancestor language is anything more than bunk, go for it. Please explain all the similarities and regular changes between languages classified as Indo-european if they didn't come from a common ancestor. I never said or implied that the Vedas or Hinduism originated anywhere, much less outside of India. Of course they originated in India. Don't insult MY intelligence.
    Which one is it? Either Sanskrit was discovered in India or it wasn't. Your previous posts seem to indicate you believe that Sanskrit has descended from some common ancestral language called PIE. If you believe that, then you believe Sanskrit originated OUTSIDE of India, as do all euro-centric Hindu-haters.

    Of course, if I were really milking this for what it's worth, I would say Sanskrit is timeless and does not have an age but I believe that every yugA, Hindu sages discover the nature of reality and find new meaning in the same timeless principles of Sanatana Dharma. Sanskrit is the language through which those principles are described just as mathematics is the language through which the physical principles of nature are described. The flavor on the top may seem to be different, but the substance is not. So differentiating between "Vedic" Sanskrit, "Classical" Sanskrit and "Bollywood" Sanskrit doesn't mean a thing in the grander scheme of things.

    Quote Originally Posted by Minotaur View Post
    I AM NOT YOUR ENEMY.
    And neither am I to you. Don't take it personally.

    Just look up some old posts of mine; I have always tended to be a bit aggressive towards non-Indians, sometimes unintentionally. I am really wary about "new" Hindus who still hold on to euro-centric biases with respect to India and Indian history.

    Quote Originally Posted by Minotaur View Post
    Clearly I am not welcome here by some people; is it because I am not Indian, and therefore not a true Hindu? Is it because my ancestors were those low-down, no-good, dirty rotten Europeans? Come right out and tell me I am not welcome, and I will read and learn and say nothing more. But it will say more about you as a Hindu than it does about me having European ancestry. In any case, I did not deserve that dressing down.

    I wish the best to you that life has to offer.
    You called me "defensive"? lol..

    I am unabashedly Hindu; meaning I don't mince words. I personally believe one has to have the right lineage to be Hindu but I've always gotten the hot end of the iron for saying that off and online.

    As many members of this forum have made it unequivocally clear, you can become Hindu if you are truly sincere and respectful towards the culture and people.

    I will, however, make it amply clear that I do not respect anyone who claims they are Hindu but subversively gives credence or support to any euro-centric theories about Hinduism or India.

    If you say are not one of those people, then you are most welcome.

    Edit: Just read that thread about jesus and saw you clinging on to that fraud. Proves my hunch correct every single time! *Pats myself on back*

    Quote Originally Posted by Minotaur View Post
    Btw, I reported your post for being rude,
    Me? Rude? Shucks! I guess there's a first time for everything!
    Last edited by TatTvamAsi; 23 June 2011 at 12:06 AM.

  5. #35
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    Re: Human Migrations into India

    I've already publicly apologized. What more would you have me do?
    śivasya hridayam viṣṇur viṣṇoscha hridayam śivaḥ

  6. #36
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    Re: Human Migrations into India

    Quote Originally Posted by Minotaur View Post
    I've already publicly apologized. What more would you have me do?
    Nothing.
    It is another day.
    Dont respond to those threads and move on.
    No one owns SD or this forum, in fact on a balance your
    participation is very productive
    As you said it is difficult to 'properly' communicate on internet, the message may be lost in translation.
    Besides dont apologize anymore.
    Namaste.

  7. #37
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    Re: Human Migrations into India

    Namaste charitra, and thank you. You are right. I appreciate it.

    Quote Originally Posted by charitra View Post
    Nothing.
    It is another day.
    Dont respond to those threads and move on.
    No one owns SD or this forum, in fact on a balance your
    participation is very productive
    As you said it is difficult to 'properly' communicate on internet, the message may be lost in translation.
    Besides dont apologize anymore.
    Namaste.
    śivasya hridayam viṣṇur viṣṇoscha hridayam śivaḥ

  8. #38
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    Re: Human Migrations into India

    Read this.

    Sorry no summary, don't really have that much of time. Do pass this on to other people.

  9. #39
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    Re: Human Migrations into India

    Hindi and Urdu are two registers of the same language. Urdu is spoken primarily in Pakistan and is influenced with Arabic loanwords, and uses Arabic script. Hindi uses devanagari script and doesn't have the Arabic influence Urdu has. However, they are mutually intelligible. That is, a Hindi speaker can understand Urdu, and vice versa.

    And yes, there's more evidence that Dravidian and Sanskritic languages are closer than originally thought, either being genetically related (that is, having a common ancestor), or heavy borrowing, loaning and influencing of each other.
    śivasya hridayam viṣṇur viṣṇoscha hridayam śivaḥ

  10. #40

    Re: Human Migrations into India

    Quote Originally Posted by Ramakrishna View Post
    Namaste all,

    This is a subject I have been studying a little recently. A friend of mine recently showed me this article:
    http://genome.cshlp.org/content/11/6/994.full
    which basically makes the point that ancient humans from West Eurasia migrated into India and created the caste system and put themselves in the castes of "higher rank". The evidence for it is that the genetic makeup for members of the high castes are more similar to European genetics than other the genetic makeup for other castes do. The article goes into great detail and can explain it better than I can.

    On one hand, this sounds like a sort of watered-down AIT, but on another hand it does not seem so absurd. After all, haven't there been numerous different waves of migrations into India since the time the first humans migrated out of Africa? Please note that my friend is not a Christian (he is actually a former Catholic, now atheist) and does not have any sort of "agenda". He is actually against AIT and believes it's false. He just has an interest in anthropology and genealogy and studies it a lot. The point that he is trying to make is basically that each wave of migrations into India "contributed linguistically and culturally in some way or another. The populations mixed with the natives, took on native customs etc."

    It was my understanding that the caste system had been around (in it's pure, unadulterated form) since the beginning of Vedic civilization, but I could be wrong as I don't know much about its history. Is it not correct that the Vedas were revealed to the ancient rishis, the Vedic civilization gradually developed and flourished, and during that time there were waves of migrations into India? So where does the caste system play into this? How can the similarity of the genetic makeups of high caste members and Europeans be explained? Another thing to note is that he said these weren't "Europeans" like we think of today, but rather "Eurasians" who came from no farther west than the Balkans.

    Any thoughts on this, or can anyone point me to good sources about the historical waves of migration into India?

    Jai Sri Ram
    Dear Ramakrishna,

    Sai Ram

    Regarding human migrations , please note our ancient puranas point out migrations from India to out side. India is the cradle of all the civilization,
    If any similarities between Hindus and Europeans , it is mainly due to migration from India long ego.

    Ramana

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