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Thread: Lord Shiva in Buddhism

  1. #1
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    Lord Shiva in Buddhism

    Namaste,

    Interesting article I found http://www.virtualvinodh.com/religio...va-in-buddhism

    Om Namah Shivaya

  2. #2
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    Re: Lord Shiva in Buddhism

    Namaste,

    I do not mean to be challenging the article, but it states

    "After emanation of Shiva from his Body, Avalokiteshvara tells Mahesvara that, during the kaliyuga, he will appear in a degenerate realm and will be called the primordial god (ādideva), the creator and author of the world. The beings in this realm at that time will be deprived of the path to awakening and the talk among those foolish common people will be: "It is said that space is his linga and the earth his pedestal. He is the ground of all and is called linga because all beings dissolve into him". [1]

    The Shaivaite Doctrine is directly rebuked here, those who worship Shiva as the Creator deity are criticized as "foolish common people" (pṛthagjana)."


    This is an attack on the Shaivite doctrine for sure, but this seems like sectarianism of later Buddhist. There is no problem there since we all have our particular views, but I do not think these particular sutras can hold any weight, because these are later writings that we do not even know if the Buddha ever uttered any of them. There is even difficulty in stating that the Buddha preached the Theravada cannon, because there are additions and other such things in them.



    The article also says:


    "oving further to the narrative end of the Sutra, Shiva appears before the Buddha, prostrated before him and asks for Vyakarana [Prediction of Buddha-hood]. He is directed by the Buddha to Avalokiteshvara. Maheshvara praises Avalokiteshvara and requests Vyakarana from him. On his request Avalokiteshvara bestows the prophecy for Buddhahood.
    bhaviṣyasi tvaṁ kulaputra vivṛtāyāṁ lokadhātau bhasmeśvaro nāma tathāgato'rhan samyaksaṁbuddho vidyācaraṇasaṁpannaḥ sugato lokavidanuttaraḥ puruṣadamyasārathiḥ śāstā devānāṁ ca manuṣyāṇāṁ ca buddho bhagavān
    Kulaputra ! In the future you will become in the World called Vivrita, a Tathagata named Bhasmeshvara, an Arhat, One who is perfect in knowledge and conduct, a Sugata, Knower of the Word, Unsurpassed-one, Tamer of Men, Teacher of the Gods & Men, Buddha and the Lord."

    So from the quote above it seems they see Shiva as not yet enlightened. This is strange since Shiva is himself Enlightenment or Moksha. Shiva is the underlying reality in which all things take place in. I see not how he could not be enlightened. This matted haired, three eyed deity is the Lord of Yoga. The Primordial being from which the Universe appeared. All experience of awakening or non awakening occurs within the great being of Shiva. This again are just Buddhist attacks against Sanatana Dharma. It is just due to competition of ways. I love Mahayana Buddhism and find it to be filled with great wisdom, but I do not think that all of these Sutras are uttered from the mouth of the Buddha.

    Just my thoughts that lack scholarly and experiential knowledge.


    Om Namah Shivaya

  3. #3

    Re: Lord Shiva in Buddhism

    Vanakkam Spiritual Seeker,

    very good point !

    I will explain first about vyakarana :

    In Mahayana Buddhism, Buddha also give vyakarana to Ksitigarbha and Avalokitesvara, and then Manjusri etc
    But acctually, they are all is already a Buddha and also the manifestation of Vairocana (The Highest)
    But why Buddha become Bodhisattva then get vyakarana again and then become another Buddha ???
    well, from India philosophy i think this kind of things is not strange and even not a conflict.
    That is only a sport , a lilas of Bhagavan !
    Whatever they become, whatever the name they get , they always ONE.
    All of this play is only to teach us.

    About attack Shaivite teachings,
    yes you are right the text is maybe from peoples after Parinirvana of Gautama Buddha.
    That is why Tantric Buddhism need a GURU
    then se Guru as Buddha, and we follow his guide to understand the scripture etc.

    We talk about scripture off course there will be add many political reason etc from many follower of Buddha, i dont know who add that in the scripture, but we must see in whole teachings to understand what the meaning.

    For me , the statment maybe is get influence from the conflict between Shaivaism and Buddhism in India
    But when we talk about Shaivaism and Buddhism, not all Shaivite is have conflict with Buddhist , not all Buddhist is conflict with Shaivite !
    What some person do in the name of Hindu is dont mean all Hindu agree that !

    You look some text of Hindu and Buddhist, some text also look like see other sect as wrong view, and even foolish (even they are same Hindu or same Buddhist in different sect)

    If we learn India philosophy (even i not expert) we will know what is the meaning of this sentence (the sentence who talk about their superiority between other sect)

    Even in Buddhist text (maybe also Hindu text ) there is many sentence who said This mantra is the king of all mantra, other mantra cant compare etc.
    Or this Istadevata is the highest etc.
    This is very ordinary things in India philosophy

    but is depend on how your Guru understand this,

    for my own, my GURU, he have initiated us with the Sadhana of Buddha Mahesvara,
    He teach us Shiva is Buddha (like the proof from Sutra about 12 Deva in Buddhism), then Shiva is mara , but that is His wonderful way to guide us recognize our inner mara !
    That is why i am Buddhist but very respect and even says :
    SHIVA and GANESH is my Lord
    is Buddha
    is Lord of Universe
    and i even dont have problem with Hindu scripture, i dont see Hindu scripture as foolish or cant touch etc
    Even i have no problem when read Shiva Purana explain about Asura from Tripura is deluded by Buddha.
    I have post the thread about that, but only to know how the others view that text, than i offer my own view.

    So, im back, when i say this, not all Buddhist will agree what i say
    and not all Buddhist will reject what i say

    When i say this, not all Hindu will accept me
    but also, not all Hindu will reject me

    That is depend on individual understanding and the spiritual wisdom

    OM. VAJRA. VISHNUYA. SVAHA
    OM. VAJRA. GARUDA. CALE CALE. HUM PHAT


    OM. AMOGHA VAIROCANA. MAHA-MUDRA. MANI PADMA JVALA PRAVARTTAYA. HUM

    Om Saha Nau-Avatu |
    Saha Nau Bhunaktu |
    Saha Viiryam Karava-Avahai |
    Tejasvi Nau-Adhii-Tam-Astu Maa Vidviss-Aavahai |
    Om Shaantih Shaantih Shaantih ||


  4. #4

    Re: Lord Shiva in Buddhism

    about vyakarana again,
    we all know story when Krsna and Balaram
    or
    Rama and Laksmana
    have Guru then get the guide from Their Guru etc
    then Hanuman help Rama
    then Rahvana, the devotee of Shiva have ben killed
    or Shiva burn Kama Deva
    or Shiva subjugated the pride of Vishnu and Brahma

    why ?
    why we not feel confused with this ?
    new comer will confused read that story and think why God do such things ? why , why and why.

    But we all understand what the teachings behind what Krsna, Rama, Rahvana, Shiva, Hanuman etc do

    This is same
    why Buddha become Bodhisattva, why born again, why become another Buddha
    why Buddha become mara and let His self be subjugated by His another form
    why Buddha become Vinayaka
    why Buddha become Sidharta Gautama and search the TRUTH of life
    and search the end of birth and death

    new comer will confused see this

    OM. VAJRA. VISHNUYA. SVAHA
    OM. VAJRA. GARUDA. CALE CALE. HUM PHAT


    OM. AMOGHA VAIROCANA. MAHA-MUDRA. MANI PADMA JVALA PRAVARTTAYA. HUM

    Om Saha Nau-Avatu |
    Saha Nau Bhunaktu |
    Saha Viiryam Karava-Avahai |
    Tejasvi Nau-Adhii-Tam-Astu Maa Vidviss-Aavahai |
    Om Shaantih Shaantih Shaantih ||


  5. #5

    Re: Lord Shiva in Buddhism

    Then in i say :
    This is India Philosophy,
    according how we get it
    how we understand it

    About the harted or conflict between all sect in India
    that is product of human beings
    i learn India Philosophy
    but i choose to dont follow that way (harted and conflict)
    that is very common in this material world, even i , i cant stop it happened in this world
    i choose to get whatever will improve my spirituality and inner peace

    OM. VAJRA. VISHNUYA. SVAHA
    OM. VAJRA. GARUDA. CALE CALE. HUM PHAT


    OM. AMOGHA VAIROCANA. MAHA-MUDRA. MANI PADMA JVALA PRAVARTTAYA. HUM

    Om Saha Nau-Avatu |
    Saha Nau Bhunaktu |
    Saha Viiryam Karava-Avahai |
    Tejasvi Nau-Adhii-Tam-Astu Maa Vidviss-Aavahai |
    Om Shaantih Shaantih Shaantih ||


  6. #6

    Re: Lord Shiva in Buddhism

    I also hear some people said Hindu get Buddha as one avatar of Vishnu to get back people who already become Buddhist

    I also hear some people said Buddhist Mantra Om Mani Padme Hum is to make a rival for Om Namah Shivaya

    Also so many political view

    But when i see sincere people chant Om Mani Padme Hum, they get good spiritual effect and even know the dead time and dead in wonderful way.
    See this fact, am i must believe that political side of view ?

    I see sincere people with devotion praised Buddha in Hindu temple as one of avatar of Vishnu
    See this fact of devotion, am i must believe that Buddha praised by Hindu is for political purpose ??

    When i ask some devotee of Krsna, is Shiva created this Universe ? Is Shiva is primordial God ?

    When i ask some devotee of Shiva , is Brahma the primordial God ?

    What they say ? If i hear the answer said the believe of Shiva as primordial God is WRONG. When i hear the answer said the believe that Brahma is primordial God is WRONG. When i see Tantric form of Kali Maa who hold corpses of Shiva. I must follow them to choose one and hate another ?

    But in fact i see SOME devotee of Shiva gain wonderful wisdom, they gain peace, they live with wisdom way and beautiful and sweet life.
    I see SOME devotee of Shakti also life in peace and wisdom.
    I see SOME devotee of Buddha also life in peace and wisdom.

    See all of this, I must follow the political argument to hate other sect and Deitys ??? But the hater cant find peace in their life, there is chaos in their aura.

    What i must do ?

    Bhagavan have many way to teach different peoples, but different people also will confused with this sport of Bhagavan.

    Some people follow the philosophy of Mother Bharat without any problem and get the peace , get many benefit in this life

    But some people follow the philosophy of Mother Bharat with many problem, how to win, how to subjugate, how to destroy the wrong view, how to push other , how to convert, how to show my superior, how to make my ideal look like number one, how to make entire world worship same istadevata with me, how to do this, how to do that, so hurt me, so hate them, so fool, this is not right, that is right, etc...

    Which one should i walk
    I only know and remember that Mother Bharat give me that is want me find peace, want me get the true benefit for my life, want me to get happiness

    Back to the sport of Bhagavan,
    I have find from Buddhist Tripitaka in one Sutra , there is said 8 names of Vinayaka (Lord Ganesh), and who meditate on them will destroy the sin.
    One name of 8 Vinayaka is King of Mara.
    Mara is the hindrance on path of Buddha Hood, how come the name of King of Mara will vanished my sin ?

    Well, this kind is common in philosophy and wisdom of Mother Bharat.

    Even i also find my Buddhist friend or many Buddhist will confused with this stuff. They also confused with the philosophy between Buddha and Mara, Buddha Shiva and Mara.

    Some Hindu also confused how to choose one istadevata and perpare them self to go to see other as demigods.

    This is normal, this is spiritual journey, we life with many people with many different way of thinking.

    This is samsara.

    OM. VAJRA. VISHNUYA. SVAHA
    OM. VAJRA. GARUDA. CALE CALE. HUM PHAT


    OM. AMOGHA VAIROCANA. MAHA-MUDRA. MANI PADMA JVALA PRAVARTTAYA. HUM

    Om Saha Nau-Avatu |
    Saha Nau Bhunaktu |
    Saha Viiryam Karava-Avahai |
    Tejasvi Nau-Adhii-Tam-Astu Maa Vidviss-Aavahai |
    Om Shaantih Shaantih Shaantih ||


  7. Re: Lord Shiva in Buddhism

    Quote Originally Posted by shian View Post
    about vyakarana again,
    we all know story when Krsna and Balaram
    or
    Rama and Laksmana
    have Guru then get the guide from Their Guru etc
    then Hanuman help Rama
    then Rahvana, the devotee of Shiva have ben killed
    or Shiva burn Kama Deva
    or Shiva subjugated the pride of Vishnu and Brahma

    why ?
    why we not feel confused with this ?
    new comer will confused read that story and think why God do such things ? why , why and why.

    But we all understand what the teachings behind what Krsna, Rama, Rahvana, Shiva, Hanuman etc do

    This is same
    why Buddha become Bodhisattva, why born again, why become another Buddha
    why Buddha become mara and let His self be subjugated by His another form
    why Buddha become Vinayaka
    why Buddha become Sidharta Gautama and search the TRUTH of life
    and search the end of birth and death

    new comer will confused see this
    Ravan was devotee of Shiva and got blessings of Shiva, but this gave him no green signal to rule like aDHaRmi. Hanuman was incarnation of Shiva and he become devotee of Ram. The Parshuram form of Vishnu was friend of Ravana, but Ram form of Vishnu killed the same Ravana. It's all depends on Karma and nobody is pardoned.

    Quote Originally Posted by shian View Post
    I also hear some people said Hindu get Buddha as one avatar of Vishnu to get back people who already become Buddhist

    --------------------------------------------------
    This is misquoting made by Modern Buddhists who hardly have any knowledge about Buddhism. In fact Buddhist themselves played the misquote card to make Buddha popular with Vishnuism, because Jainism was popular only using the name of Rishabhdev who was one of the forefathers of Bhagwan Sri Ram.
    [CENTER][B][FONT=Arial Black][SIZE=7][COLOR=Yellow] ॐ[/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT][/B]
    [/CENTER]

  8. #8

    Re: Lord Shiva in Buddhism

    @Param, so i said that is political view and i will ignore it because not my bussiness and i am personaly not do that and not interesting with that. Whatever you said about Buddhist, acctually i dont understand that because i am personally not like what you say.

    I still view on : this is fact there is some Shiva devotee who have sincere heart then they get the bliss and happiness. This fact that there is some Buddha devotee who have sincere heart, then they get bliss and happiness. So , see this fact, why i view the philosophy of Mother Bharat from political side ? I am not politican, i only ordinary person who worship Shiva, Ganesh, Devi and Buddha. Thats it. You can talk politic with other person who have interseted in it and have the desire to fight on it.

    Thank you

    OM. VAJRA. VISHNUYA. SVAHA
    OM. VAJRA. GARUDA. CALE CALE. HUM PHAT


    OM. AMOGHA VAIROCANA. MAHA-MUDRA. MANI PADMA JVALA PRAVARTTAYA. HUM

    Om Saha Nau-Avatu |
    Saha Nau Bhunaktu |
    Saha Viiryam Karava-Avahai |
    Tejasvi Nau-Adhii-Tam-Astu Maa Vidviss-Aavahai |
    Om Shaantih Shaantih Shaantih ||


  9. #9

    Re: Lord Shiva in Buddhism

    In this world,

    There is some Hindu who hate Buddhist
    There is some Buddhist who hate Hindu
    There is some Hindu sect who hate another Hindu sect
    There is some Buddhist sect who hate another Buddhist sect

    And i dont care about that because that is not my goal in this life
    I only person who love India philosophy, but why some people guide me to joined their hatred and fight ? I dont understand their purpose, is they want to kick me off and not let me know more and get more bliss from many rich philosophy of India ?
    Is they want me stop learned India philosophy and go search other philosophy ? What the purpose of fighting for such things ?
    What they want ? They want to tell me the beautiful rich philosophy of India, or want to show me that India philosophy is full of harted ? Why and what ? Because this is never ending

    That is normal, this is world

    OM. VAJRA. VISHNUYA. SVAHA
    OM. VAJRA. GARUDA. CALE CALE. HUM PHAT


    OM. AMOGHA VAIROCANA. MAHA-MUDRA. MANI PADMA JVALA PRAVARTTAYA. HUM

    Om Saha Nau-Avatu |
    Saha Nau Bhunaktu |
    Saha Viiryam Karava-Avahai |
    Tejasvi Nau-Adhii-Tam-Astu Maa Vidviss-Aavahai |
    Om Shaantih Shaantih Shaantih ||


  10. #10

    Re: Lord Shiva in Buddhism

    You fight each other, this your way to show the beautiful of Mother Bharat to others ?
    I tell you, even you try to hitt me or kick me with fighting theory, you also still need to face other sect with fighting desire, and this is will never end until you are vanished each other. This is what you want show to your own Mother Bharat ?

    OM. VAJRA. VISHNUYA. SVAHA
    OM. VAJRA. GARUDA. CALE CALE. HUM PHAT


    OM. AMOGHA VAIROCANA. MAHA-MUDRA. MANI PADMA JVALA PRAVARTTAYA. HUM

    Om Saha Nau-Avatu |
    Saha Nau Bhunaktu |
    Saha Viiryam Karava-Avahai |
    Tejasvi Nau-Adhii-Tam-Astu Maa Vidviss-Aavahai |
    Om Shaantih Shaantih Shaantih ||


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