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Thread: The Understanding that can Aid Meditation

  1. #1

    The Understanding that can Aid Meditation

    Friends,
    There have been a lot of threads on meditation here and here I would like to present something concrete and useful for people who desire to meditate.

    The title explains my approach towards this. Even in this first thread, a sincere student would be able to get some useful clues!

    Lets take a simple case study. Lets say I sit down with a mala for japa. And then start chanting a mantra which was given to me by my guru. Lets say , even as I chant the mantra, my mind does not stay with the mantra. So It goes away from the mantra and I bring it back to the mantra... This cycle goes on.

    Lets now try to analyze this scenario to see if we can get some useful clues. If I present this problem to a modern day guru , he would say "You lack practice/ You need concentration etc" ... and that is absolute nonsense. Let me first explain why and then we will together see the solution to it. We do not lack concentration:- the mind functions in a certain way: when we are interested in something, mind is automatically concentrated and when we are not interested in something mind is not concentrated. This is a simple law of our mind. We have to recognize this. That's a simple law. When we are taught that we lack concentration etc, that's pure nonsense in the name of religion. It creates inferiority complex in the people who cannot do it and superiority complex in the person who can do it - and both are dangerous. There is nothing wrong with you, if you cannot concentrate on a mantra ... it just means you find it boring and that's OK!

    So when the mind is moving about everywhere sans the mantra on which I have decided to concentrate ... it just shows that my interest is elsewhere.
    Do we see this ?

    If we like to watch a movie , we need not be told to concentrate on the movie! Please see. This is simple fact as it stands. When my mind wants to be elsewhere, but I am here ... that's called distraction.

    so why is "This[japa or meditation]" not interesting while "That[something else] is interesting" ?

    Friends , let me here note a point: a relative once told me "I hate movies" and I told her "someone hates meditation while you hate movies... how is it different ? The first person would suffer when placed in a meditation session while you suffer if you are placed in movie!! "!! Life, friends, is really strange ... if you love meditation... it will present you with situations that wont allow you to meditate and tease you. If you love partying etc ... life will tease you by presenting situations where you cannot go for what you want ! So that's life! A truly meditative person is not someone who has carved out a place or activity in which he is in joy. A truly meditative person is someone who is in perpetual joy irrespective of what circumstances life places him in. This is true liberation. So lets not think that a person who loves to meditate is superior in some way.

    I hope I have succeeded in conveying some useful thoughts. In my next session we will together explore some more ideas which can be very useful aids in our spiritual journey.

    Love!
    Silence
    Come up, O Lions, and shake off the delusion that you are a sheep

  2. #2
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    Re: The Understanding that can Aid Meditation

    hari o
    ~~~~~~
    namasté


    Quote Originally Posted by silence_speaks View Post
    when we are interested in something, mind is automatically concentrated and when we are not interested in something mind is not concentrated.
    I find this directionally correct, yet in practice there are 'distractions' that occur even if one's interest is elevated. How so?
    It is the difference between a rajasic mind, tamasic mind, vs. the sattvic mind. Now no mind is all one-or-the-other because the guna-s always come in 3's. But one can have a predominance over the others.

    The rajasic mind is prone to movement, to action, to flight from here and there. Therefore remaining on one thing for a time is challenging.
    The tamasic mind is in fact dull. To such an extent it does not know that it does not know ( that is the darkest). Yet this tamasic mind would be less of a candidate for meditative practices. Is it possible to uplift this tamasic mind? Yes. And uplift the rajasic mind ? Yes.

    So, the notion of interest + the state/condition of one's mind and constitution play a role in one's overall practice.

    iti śiva

    यतस्त्वं शिवसमोऽसि
    yatastvaṁ śivasamo'si
    because you are identical with śiva

    _

  3. #3

    Re: The Understanding that can Aid Meditation

    Dear Yajvan ji,
    What you say is true, but if you dig down to the "roots" you find just one !

    The best way to look at such scenarios [as we do in maths ] is to keep one variable "constant". The same person ... i.e., same kind of mind ...
    1. in a boring lecture.
    2. in his favorite movie.

    in (1) the person is sleeping. In (2) ... the person is all joy.

    ? Whats the difference ?

    There is nothing like a "Tamasic" Mind. A Mind OPERATING IN TAMASIC MODE is all that is there. The Same mind OPERATES IN RAJASIC MODE or SATVIC MODE at other times.


    Lets redefine terms:
    Tamasic mode of a mind is when its predominantly NOT INTERESTED. A disinterested mind.
    Rajasic mode of a mind is when its is predominantly INTERESTED IN VARIETY. Distracted.
    Satvic mode of a mind is when its INTERESTED IN "THIS - WHAT IS, NOW".

    So when mind operates in tamasic mode , more often, then it may be labeled tamasic mind. But the same mind will quickly get converted into a satvic mind if it gets interested.
    We see this very often. imagine a person who is predominantly intellectual. he loves to study - a physicist say. Now you take him away from physics and all study of physics and put a condition that he should not study physics ... and the next few days you will see him sleeping or dozing off in all other meetings. Reason ? His interest is elsewhere.

    Infact if you read Bhagavad Gita... there are 4 different lifestyles suggested. Why ? A person who is interested in earning money ... if he does business , his mind operates in satvic mode. if he goes to vedanta classes, his mind would quickly operate in tamasic mode.

    Love!
    Silence
    Come up, O Lions, and shake off the delusion that you are a sheep

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    Re: The Understanding that can Aid Meditation

    hari o
    ~~~~~~
    namasté
    Quote Originally Posted by yajvan View Post

    I find this directionally correct, yet in practice there are 'distractions' that occur even if one's interest is elevated. How so?
    In any given day one can be the śiya¹ , bhakta , udāsīna or the pāpātman. It is not till one is the ātmamukhaṃ¹ that a continuous, unflinching, level of awareness is revealed that one's balance remains 24 hours a day.

    iti śiva

    words
    • śiṣya - student; also the disciple
    • bhakta - devoted to
    • udāsīna - neither friend of foe ; indifferent
    • pāpātman - evil minded
    • ātmamukhaṃ = ātma + mukhaṃ
        • ātma = Self, or Being, some say svarūpa ( one's essential nature)
        • mukhaṃ = mukha = turning towards; facing


    यतस्त्वं शिवसमोऽसि
    yatastvaṁ śivasamo'si
    because you are identical with śiva

    _

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    Re: The Understanding that can Aid Meditation

    Quote Originally Posted by silence_speaks View Post
    A truly meditative person is not someone who has carved out a place or activity in which he is in joy. A truly meditative person is someone who is in perpetual joy irrespective of what circumstances life places him in. This is true liberation. So lets not think that a person who loves to meditate is superior in some way.
    I think I remember H. H. Sri Sri Ravi Shankar of the Art of Living saying something similar. I know SSRS isn't the most popular of gurus on these forums (which I am not commenting on, just observing), but it goes to show you even a stopped clock is right twice a day. I don't think SSRS is a stopped clock, but you get the idea...

  6. #6

    Re: The Understanding that can Aid Meditation

    Dear Webimpulse,


    Well, there is a beautiful saying - I think its in yoga vasishta:

    yuktiyukta.N vaco graahya.N baalaadapi shukaadapi |
    yuktihiina.N vacastyaajya.N vR^iddhaadapi shukaadapi ||

    युक्तियुक्तँ वचो ग्राह्यँ बालादपि शुकादपि।
    युक्तिहीनँ वचस्त्याज्यँ वृद्धादपि शुकादपि॥

    "A statement given to reasoning should be accepted even if uttered by a child or a parrot. But a statement devoid of any reasoning though declared by elderly persons or even by Sage Suka humself, should be rejected"

    Our affiliation / dedication should be to the Truth : not to the person who says it. Its unfortunate that , most often, people are not seeking truth, they are seeking to get acceptance from a specific guru or set of teachers.

    So the statements that I make here or elsewhere: convey a vision that can be got if one is open. A few statements may occasionally be found to coincide with statements of popular gurus !

    Love!
    Silence
    Come up, O Lions, and shake off the delusion that you are a sheep

  7. #7

    Re: The Understanding that can Aid Meditation

    om gurave namaḥ

    Dear silence speaks,

    In my experience meditation is best performed as a passive flow used to bring balance to a rising force from out side, to regain the reigns which are otherwise held by mātRka and saṁsāra.

    The example of the television is the complete opposite of this; a television will project saṁsāra into your minds eye with an efficacy that is quite formidable. Terrifyingly so, if indeed, you are conscious of that.

    You see to my mind meditation has a directivity, a movement, a breath; if you sit and play an instrument or sing, ideally in improvisation within a structure, you are working with this flow to make something, perhaps it is even communicably beautiful.
    By spending hours in front of the television, you are opening your mind to the impressions and saṁsāra of whoever wrote, directed or edited the emission; best you be aware of the chandas which is being used.
    Meditation can and does change your predominant guna tattva and your life's path.

    To my mind the goal here is to have an awareness of this and work with that, perhaps with a guru, but it is absolutely not to hand the reigns over to someone that you don't know, or to random impressions acting in such an accelerated fashion; Have you ever watched Fox News?

    Just some food for thought mind you.

    I do agree in principle with what you are saying as to the nature of meditation; but I feel that a little cation be needed here also. For example, what does the Television do to the Father son bond and the patrilineage?

    mātRka can be very domineering and extremely aggressive at times.
    That said, dharma can mislead also if it loses its sense of smell ...

    Worthy of meditation.

    Kind regards.
    Last edited by Mana; 05 January 2014 at 03:23 AM.

  8. #8

    Re: The Understanding that can Aid Meditation

    Dear Mana ji,


    Lets together analyze this carefully. Please pay a little attention to what I have to share here.

    If I have a car and I know how to drive it, I can cruise through traffic as I want. On the other hand, if I do not know how to drive it and still get into it... I land up in an accident. I cannot blame the car for the accident. Neither is it intelligent to keep the car in the parking lot all the time. I have to learn to drive the car and then use it.

    Mind is like a car. I have to learn to use it. If I do not know how to manage or handle my mind, life becomes an accident. A poor villager who has very few thoughts, knows very few things and he is comfortable. But then, a friend from the city comes to him and tells him a few things about the city life ... and now he cannot live in the village any more! This friend has simply fed a few thoughts. Earlier the peasant was innocent. Now he has thoughts and he does not know how to handle them... and he is in trouble.
    But this does not mean that we should not have thoughts ! Please see... We should have thoughts and use them! We should know how to use them.

    Lets take this statement:

    By spending hours in front of the television, you are opening your mind to the impressions and saṁsāra of whoever wrote.
    By spending hours before the television, what happens ? Certain thoughts are accumulated. Earlier I did not know that a special kind of mobile phone existed, now I know. Earlier I did not know something, now I know. Some thoughts are accumulated. Now if i do not know how to manage these thoughts ... they run a riot and i am gone ! But we cannot say here that one should not have those thoughts ... if not TV, someone else will push them on us! so if a person is trying to avoid thoughts, he would ever remain fearing all experiences!

    Our thoughts are given to us. As a result of our childhood experiences, our parents, teachers, the television channels we watch etc ... we have been provided with various kinds of thoughts. And those thoughts are useful for us to interact with the world. Without those thoughts we cannot interact. At the same time, the presence of a thought need not mean that we are condemned to act in a certain way. A THOUGHT IS MERELY A PROMPTING! WE MAY OR MAY NOT OBLIGE!

    Unfortunately we tend to treat our thoughts as commands ! Thoughts as suggestions are a privilege and as commands they are a problem.


    For example, what does the Television do to the Father son bond and the patrilineage?
    Does Television do something or excess indulgence in TV / Excess involvement with TV do something ? Please see. TV as an object is wonderful ... its the way we use it that makes it into a problem. Even as , a knife ... its wonderful if i use it for cutting vegetables, but the same knife may be used to cut someone's throat and then it becomes a problem. so what does a TV do ? Nothing. We use it. If I use to to get some useful information, its wonderful.

    This is "EXACTLY" same for any instrument given to us.
    and mind is an instrument.

    do we see this ?

    BTW guna traya vibhagam is done to show that you are triguna-athita ... beyond the three gunas . its this vision that makes living into meditation... not continuous manipulation of gunas! People get stuck with manipulation of gunas and life becomes a burden!


    Love!
    Silence
    Come up, O Lions, and shake off the delusion that you are a sheep

  9. #9

    Re: The Understanding that can Aid Meditation

    Dear Silence speaks.

    I do not wish to enter into a point to point debate and as an example you have side stepped many important points, such as chandas; interestingly, by altering mine.

    Your car analogy, lets read this together:

    Your Father is obviously a great first Guru when learning to drive; But, if you want to pilot Formula one you will need a more experienced teacher, and a more specialized schooling. I suspect though, that formula one pilots are born, rather than made, so this may take several lifetimes and the schooling is more directive than forming.

    Now, and this is key: What if your father spends all of his time watching the television, who will put you on your initial path? What would your driving skills become in his absence; A car thief perhaps, or a getaway driver, as seen on TV?

    What then if you are born into a formula one car (your analogy negates the difference that time and karma may make to the vehicle), but you never get any training; you would never get of the starting grid in such a machine with no support; or would crash on the first bend.

    Kind regards.
    Last edited by Mana; 07 January 2014 at 02:44 AM.

  10. #10

    Re: The Understanding that can Aid Meditation

    Dear Mana ji,


    This discussion , or any of my other discussions are only some sharing of ideas. There is nothing personal , nor is there any attempt to twist your views. I missed the chandas part because I did not quite understand it properly. Can you please elaborate a little on that ?

    What I am trying to convey is just this:
    One should know how to manage one's mind - and not worry so much about the "Content" of the mind.

    So watching TV is not bad. Addiction to TV is a compulsive disorder - inability to manage mind. That's a problem.

    Finally, usually its incorrect to "Extend" an Example/illustration. We discuss ideas, not examples. Examples or drshtantas are given to illustrate the point... the point is what is supposed to be discussed. So the car example is to explain that mind management is needed ! Does not relate in any way to a formula one car !

    Love!
    Silence
    Come up, O Lions, and shake off the delusion that you are a sheep

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