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Thread: Hot Or Cold - Never Warm

  1. #1
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    Hot Or Cold - Never Warm

    Namaste.

    Okay, so I am experiencing a few difficulties with my Sadhana and need advice.

    When I am meditating on Lord Shiva, it is 'all or nothing' now.

    Either I am in meditative trance, weeping uncontrollably and ranting hysterically about how beautiful and amazing the universe and Lord Shiva is..

    Or I just sit there and 'contemplate my navel' and nothing more.

    It's like 'lets do manic-depressive meditation'.

    Funny thing is, that when I am not with Lord Shiva, my heart yearns and begs for it...when I am, I can't wait to get outta there.

    I wish He could 'tone it down' just a bit or meter this out in much smaller doses so I can actually function in a full state of 'Shiva awareness'.

    I'm like a junkie, looking for 'replacement therapy'.

    All help and advice appreciated.

    Aum Namah Shivaya

  2. #2
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    Re: Hot Or Cold - Never Warm

    hari o
    ~~~~~~
    namasté

    Quote Originally Posted by Necromancer View Post
    When I am meditating on Lord Shiva, it is 'all or nothing' now.
    I do not understand this experience... To meditate on Him (śiva) is to say there is 2 ( you and Him). Yet it is śiva that is the actual pure awareness, the purity that knows Himself. Wherefrom comes two in your experience ? He is perfectly pure ( as you know) there is no duality as that suggests impure ( or 2).

    so, yajvan what are you saying ?
    Are you certain of your experience ? It is perhaps you are putting your awareness on the idea of śiva which is all well and good. Yet the actual absorption (the very fancy term is viśvottīrṇa avasthā¹) comes and goes or is not part of your direct personal experience ?

    We are told in our āgama-s¹ :
    yathālokena dīpasya kiraṇair-bhāskarasya ca |
    jñāyate dig-vibhāgāadi tadvac chatyā śivaḥ priye || 21
    Just as parts of space are known by the light of a lamp
    or the rays of the sun, in the same way O'dear One
    śiva is known through śakti.


    What is the essence here ? That śiva is arrived at via the awareness, the constantly refreshed awareness that deposits one into viśvottīrṇa avasthā .

    iti śivaṁ

    words
    • viśvottīrṇa avasthā - the transcendental state; perfect purity of awareness; seedless as it is called.
    • this is from vijñāna bhairava kārikā-s - the conversation between śakti and śiva; a subsection of the rudrayāmala tantra
    यतसà¥à¤¤à¥à¤µà¤‚ शिवसमोऽसि
    yatastvaṠśivasamo'si
    because you are identical with śiva

    _

  3. #3
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    Re: Hot Or Cold - Never Warm

    Oh, wow, Necromancer! I have to congratulate you on having as much of an yearning for your Lord. What you describe as your 'manic' mood fits nothing short of the description for what advanced devotees feel. With so much bhakti, why are you worried? Have you heard of sant Janabai? She is the famous Vaishnava devotee dedicated to Sri Panduranga. It is said she was just a servant in Sant Namdev's household (or she is his adoptive little sister... in any event, she was poor and a rescued orphan whose whole day comprised of doing household work). Dedicated to household work throughout the day, she remembered Panduranga all the time, when she was cooking, cleaning, every time. The Lord is said to have appeared in her household personally and help her out in cooking! So much was her love and affection.

    So what you feel for Lord Shiva absolutely qualifies as pure bhakti even if you are just mentally thinking about him and not in a trance meditating about him. So please cheer up and be proud of/feel accomplished for your yearning for him!
    jai hanuman gyan gun sagar jai kapis tihu lok ujagar

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    Re: Hot Or Cold - Never Warm

    Quote Originally Posted by Viraja View Post
    Oh, wow, Necromancer! I have to congratulate you on having as much of an yearning for your Lord. What you describe as your 'manic' mood fits nothing short of the description for what advanced devotees feel. With so much bhakti, why are you worried? Have you heard of sant Janabai? She is the famous Vaishnava devotee dedicated to Sri Panduranga. It is said she was just a servant in Sant Namdev's household (or she is his adoptive little sister... in any event, she was poor and a rescued orphan whose whole day comprised of doing household work). Dedicated to household work throughout the day, she remembered Panduranga all the time, when she was cooking, cleaning, every time. The Lord is said to have appeared in her household personally and help her out in cooking! So much was her love and affection.

    So what you feel for Lord Shiva absolutely qualifies as pure bhakti even if you are just mentally thinking about him and not in a trance meditating about him. So please cheer up and be proud of/feel accomplished for your yearning for him!
    Namaste.

    Thank you, Viraja and I have heard that tale before, but it's nice to be reminded of it.

    I think I should stop looking within and start looking without as well.

    Aum Namah Shivaya

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    Re: Hot Or Cold - Never Warm

    Quote Originally Posted by yajvan View Post
    Siva is known through śakti.
    Namaste.

    From all you said, this is what resonated with me the most.

    Even my Guru-ji said it (I was initiated into Mantra Diksha with a Devi Mantra - I should start chanting that).

    I don't spend nearly enough time meditating upon and worshiping the Goddess, as all my time is spent worshiping Shiva.

    Aum Namah Shivaya

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    Re: Hot Or Cold - Never Warm

    Quote Originally Posted by yajvan View Post
    hari o
    ~~~~~~
    namasté

    I do not understand this experience... To meditate on Him (śiva) is to say there is 2 ( you and Him). Yet it is śiva that is the actual pure awareness, the purity that knows Himself. Wherefrom comes two in your experience ? He is perfectly pure ( as you know) there is no duality as that suggests impure ( or 2).

    so, yajvan what are you saying ?
    Are you certain of your experience ? It is perhaps you are putting your awareness on the idea of śiva which is all well and good. Yet the actual absorption (the very fancy term is viśvottīrṇa avasthā¹) comes and goes or is not part of your direct personal experience ?

    We are told in our āgama-s¹ :
    yathālokena dīpasya kiraṇair-bhāskarasya ca |
    jñāyate dig-vibhāgāadi tadvac chatyā śivaḥ priye || 21
    Just as parts of space are known by the light of a lamp
    or the rays of the sun, in the same way O'dear One
    śiva is known through śakti.


    What is the essence here ? That śiva is arrived at via the awareness, the constantly refreshed awareness that deposits one into viśvottīrṇa avasthā .

    iti śivaṁ

    words
    • viśvottīrṇa avasthā - the transcendental state; perfect purity of awareness; seedless as it is called.
    • this is from vijñāna bhairava kārikā-s - the conversation between śakti and śiva; a subsection of the rudrayāmala tantra
    Namaste.

    To try and understand all this, and what the term viśvottīrṇa avasthā actually means (I never heard of that one before), I have been doing some study and was directed to a book called "The Philosophy of Sadhana - With Special Reference to the Trika Philosophy of Kashmir" by Deba Brata SenSharma.

    One passage in it stood right out:

    As observed above, the Parama Shiva in order that he may experience himself as the universe, first (in the logical sense) negates and suppresses his Absolute (Viśvottīrṇa) character, thereby allowing his supermost experience as Purnahamta to disappear, as it were, from his view. For so long as he continues to have Purnahamta as his self-experience, he cannot possibly experience himself as the universe. The stage in which the tremendous act of negation is achieved due to the operation of Sakti as the principle of negation (Nishedha) is technically called the 'Shakti Tattva'.

    The negation or, precisely speaking, the suppression of the supermost experience does not, however, mean that Param Shiva's self-experience becomes a total void (Shunya), or that he ceases to have any kind of self experience. It only means that he no longer experiences himself as Purnahamta, the transcendent (Viśvottīrṇa) aspect of his nature having been suppressed and having gone to the background. In it's place he has the experience of himself as Aham, which is the same in every respect as the Purnahamta, minus its Viśvottīrṇa character.
    Yeah, this sounds about right and explains it all to my way of understanding what is happening.

    Aum Namah Shivaya

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    Re: Hot Or Cold - Never Warm

    Namaste.

    Update:

    Since doing worship of Mother Kali and putting everything else through a 'Shiva Filter'...

    Let me explain the concept of a 'Shiva Filter'. It's a form of Shiva awareness, where one becomes surrounded in a blanket or 'veil' of Shiva-consciousness, so that whatever happens in the world will get processed by the 'God aware mind' first.

    I am smiling a lot for 'no reason' now and people will often ask 'what's the joke'?

    ...yeah, but after giving my 'all' to Shakti (or to be more precise, the female form of Lord Shiva - Shive) and having this 'buffer zone' around me, things are going rather swimmingly now.

    Aum Kleem Kalikaye Namah
    Aum Namah Shivaya

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