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Thread: Hindu Morality

  1. #11
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    Post Re: Hindu Morality

    Namaste VC,

    So, you consider the Ten Commandments as nothing but laws written by humans! I agree that in their current form they represent a poor translation of the original law, but that law is certainly of divine origin, and without following the rule of Yama there can be no admission to Heaven.

    How many laws are good enough? Just one! And that divine law has often been repeated to you.

    There is NO requirement in Hinduism for everyone to feel no lust and no anger (etc.) for the whole of their life, but that is the noble intention, and only a perfect brAhmaNa could actually succeed (indeed, that is the definition of a perfect kRSTi or Arya). And moksha is guaranteed for such a perfect soul, but otherwise there will most likely be a return to mortal existence.

    If we consider God as ahiMsAsatyAsthe, then all human laws become secondary.

    And the oath of Yama must be made with sincerity and conviction, and in complete freedom, otherwise the promise is bound only to be broken.

    Without ahiMsAsatyAste (“Surely mercy and goodness shall follow me all the days of my life”) there is no true law and no true dharma.

  2. #12
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    Re: Hindu Morality

    Namaste Nuno Matos.

    Quote Originally Posted by Nuno Matos View Post
    All karma must be burned! And all Karma ends up being burned.

    " Therefore the 100% exacting is only in quatum not in the same currency. "

    Yes 100% is the quantum and the currency is pain. Unless you resort to yoga and start your on independent ecological burning process, stopping the identification with the "unexpected magnifications" .

    Less pain brighter mind, less errors longer life.
    Om namah shivaya
    As you have rightly identified, karma exacts by pain. Pain is a physical manifestation and is felt by mental suffering. Spiritual advancement results not in less pain (because karma would however exact) but in less suffering. Even the 'jnAnis' (enlightened) face the pain but they have no suffering as Bhagavan Ramana Maharshi said.

  3. #13
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    Wink Re: Hindu Morality

    Namaste Saidevo

    " Spiritual advancement results not in less pain (because karma would however exact) but in less suffering."

    Thank you for the reply. It was most welcomed.
    I would like to cheer with you and all of the readers my on experience of Sadhana as I see it! For me spiritual advancement always result in less pain.
    Suffering comes with pain like cause and effect any Fakir or Yogi can attest that. If there is no pain there is no suffering or reason for such.
    Pain belongs to the body and is nothing but memory and suffering is caused by imagination i.e. non-self and the two belong especially in the mind.
    When I said less pain brighter mind I mean it exclusively in a context of spiritual advancement i.e. in the cleaning and open of the doors of perception.As Sarabhanga pointed out all Sadhana starts in Dvaita i.e. a process dealing with karma, towards the realization and self establishment of non dual reality.

    Just a final remark I think that is more easy for a sage to suffer i.e. sacrifice than to fell pain. What do you Folks and you Saidevo think about that?
    Last edited by Nuno Matos; 22 January 2008 at 01:45 PM.

  4. #14
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    Re: Hindu Morality

    Hari Om
    ~~~~~
    Quote Originally Posted by Nuno Matos View Post
    Namaste Saidevo

    Just a final remark I think that is more easy for a sage to suffer i.e. sacrifice than to fell pain. What do you Folks and you Saidevo think about that?
    Namaste nuno, a good post, thank you...
    If I may let me offer two data points, that I believe sum it all up ( for me);

    Pain is inevitable, suffering is optional. - the Dalai Lama

    Any one that says "I and my Father are One" does not suffer - from my teacher.

    So what truth is uncovered here? It is those that are possessed of the SELF, they may in fact have incidents which bring pain, but that belongs to the body, to prakriti. Being established in the SELF, one's POV is from there , from Unboundedness, Freedom, Bhuma, fullness, outside the tri-guna... hence no suffering, as that is part of the relative world.

    Now why does the Dalai Lama say suffering is optional? the jiva can choose to get on the path of knowledge and kevalya and understand the dynamics of this Life we all participate in... via moksha, suffering comes to an end. It is our choice to bring the unfolding that Fullness, Brahman, within us.

    pranams
    Last edited by yajvan; 22 January 2008 at 04:55 PM.
    यतसà¥à¤¤à¥à¤µà¤‚ शिवसमोऽसि
    yatastvaṠśivasamo'si
    because you are identical with śiva

    _

  5. #15
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    Re: Hindu Morality

    Sarabanga: So, you consider the Ten Commandments as nothing but laws written by humans!

    Yes indeed, but I believe these writers including the ones who wrote Yama and Niyama were extraordinary people, inspired by their inner consciousness or divinity.

    Sarabanga: Without following the rule of Yama there can be no admission to Heaven

    I personally struggle with this concept of Heaven ( Moksha) or Hell or even rebirth. I have not talked to someone who came back to earth telling me his or her experience of such things. But more I thought about it, I feel it is none of my business to challenge someone with his/her strong belief or faith. I consider Faith comes in when knowledge runs out. Rational mind can in no way comprehend all the complexities of this life let alone supernatural stuffs. I do respect individual belief system.

    Sarabanga: There is NO requirement in Hinduism for everyone to feel no lust and no anger (etc.) for the whole of their life, but that is the noble intention, and only a perfect brAhmaNa could actually succeed (indeed, that is the definition of a perfect kRSTi or Arya). And moksha is guaranteed for such a perfect soul, but otherwise there will most likely be a return to mortal existence


    I did not mention about requirement to feel lust or anger, but it is basic human nature to have those qualities, it does not matter whether someone calls himself a Hindu or Christian or Muslim etc. But the divine or the conscience in each of us keeps us aware of what is good or bad and keeps putting us back in track. I keep making mistakes, but I will never grow unless I reflect on each mistake and try not to repeat it and if possible even try to correct it, hopefully I will have fewer mistakes, better human. But as humans we can never become 100% mistake free. As you mentioned, the goal is noble intension, I do not disagree with you. But is it “really” realistic to reach that goal as human beings? I am not trying to blunt, are you 100% flawless and perfect and you think you have secured a berth in Moksha ? One thing I do know that I can reach something like Moksha as long as I humble myself. I do not have to keep struggling like some holy people, Sadhus, Saints, Popes etc... My understanding of Geeta spells it out that we have no right in the fruit of action, that has to include moksha as well.
    I do think there is profound meaning in this mortal existence, contrary to what you may think. If we do believe in a creator then it would’nt make sense to think that He thought this mortal life was just some illusion or a maya or a joke. I am convinced it is to experience the awesome Love. I do love this life and I am deeply thankful to this “divine’ guy? in me. He or she or the better word LOVE, alone keeps me reminding me every time I do something wrong. He says... something simple like this... HEY VC, Humble yourself, WATCH OUT…., CUT IT OUT, ….DO’NT TRY TO BE SMART, …. YOU BETTER STOP IT, Is that a right thing to do VC? Etc. Isn’t that what Advaita teaches us? The love is an internal thing, that keeps me transforming, it has to come from within, not like laws or commandments forced from outside

    Sarabanga: How many laws are good enough? Just one! And that divine law has often been repeated to you.
    If we consider God as ahiMsAsatyAsthe, then all human laws become secondary.

    You appear to be a scholar in Sanskrit, please have some mercy on me, I do not comprehend your intellectual words, all I hope, and it says LOVE. Love is not a law, it is not judgment, it is not an authority. Love is divine. Laws, rules, dharmas, commandments, judgments are human things, not divine things.

    And the oath of Yama must be made with sincerity and conviction, and in complete freedom, otherwise the promise is bound only to be broken.

    I do not disagree with you, that we strive to be sincere in our conviction. But this is an “ideal” thing. Reality is we keep breaking the laws and oaths, Err is Human. Let us not beat our self or our fellow human beings for every bad thing we do. Love has an amazing thing of forgiveness, it does bring healing more than any laws in this world.
    Sarabanga, you may find some ego in my writings but please pardon me if I wrote anything bad in those lines.

    Love……………………….VC

  6. #16

    Re: Hindu Morality

    ...when looking back over our lives from the long run (after lessons are learned) we are often quite thankful for the various forms of pain or suffering that we have been through and now understand!

    Further, if we could begin to drastically shorten periods of time spent bogged down in looking back, (which includes the processes of struggling to integrate the meanings and events associated with pain and or suffering) we could then approach a state where transmutations of same...which seemingly had negative value - could be turned into deep blessings!

    Love and Grace Is and has the power to do such as this, instantly or near instantly! (while consuming karma)

    Om
    Last edited by Bob G; 23 January 2008 at 05:52 AM.

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    Re: Hindu Morality

    Quote Originally Posted by vcindiana View Post
    Moral codes are nothing but laws written by humans to keep some order in this world. There is absolutely nothing wrong. As we all know without these laws there would be total chaos or anarchy.
    Exactly. Morality is a social phenomenon and has nothing to do by itself with Revelation. The flock needs simple but strict guidelines, while the free individual has consciousness and intellect to see what is right at any given moment. Smriti-dharma [of any religion] is pashu-dharma – which is NOT for liberation. Following any set of commandments never helps in reaching the supreme state.
    However if it is done with proper intention (that is for the sake of God) it is an indirect method, though imperfect and limited (ANava). Same is right regarding any behavior.

  8. #18
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    Re: Hindu Morality

    What hinduism says about gays and lesbians? Western liberals often claim that hinduism and buddhism respect homosexuals to justify homosexuality. I dont think that, i heard that in india homosexualit was or still is forbidden and disliked but western liberals say thats a relict of british colonialism. I strictly dislike homosexuals, i think its unnatural, my conscious says its wrong.
    "[I]O Indra, lead us on the path of Rta, on the right path over all evils[/I]."
    [SIZE=1]--RV 10.133.6[/SIZE]

    [B]When i look into the mirror i see india, the land of aryans, the craddle of civilization, the mother of all religions.[/B]

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    Re: Hindu Morality

    Quote Originally Posted by Indra View Post
    What hinduism says about gays and lesbians? Western liberals often claim that hinduism and buddhism respect homosexuals to justify homosexuality. I dont think that, i heard that in india homosexualit was or still is forbidden and disliked but western liberals say thats a relict of british colonialism. I strictly dislike homosexuals, i think its unnatural, my conscious says its wrong.
    Why then do U care about this? It isn't a religious problem at all. I would agree that this is unnatural, but who are we to say it is "wrong"? If homosexuality isn't connected with violence, what is the problem for others?

    Hindu culture originally was much less homosexual than christian or muslim. I am not sure it was tolerant, but supposedly it was unless homosexuality was shown openly. I think after muslim intervention homosexuality has grown up due to suppressing of normal sexual behavior.
    It may be "forbidden", but don't forget that indian society is very hypocrite. The difference with the West now is only that is the West U may say U are gay and nobody cares, but in India U should keep this stuff with U. That's all.

    Among buddhists monks homosexuality is common not less than among christian monks. Logical outcome of unnatural "brahmacharya"...

    By the way, i have come across a notion in Vishnu-smriti which describes punishments and prayashchittas related to sexual "sins". Homosexual act there is considered much less sinful than having sex with a person married to another! In scriptures U may find really weird stuff

  10. #20
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    Smile Re: Hindu Morality

    Quote Originally Posted by Arjuna View Post
    Why then do U care about this?
    Because i think its a morality issue

    It isn't a religious problem at all.
    The guy asked the question about hinduism and morality.

    I would agree that this is unnatural, but who are we to say it is "wrong"? If homosexuality isn't connected with violence, what is the problem for others?
    I think its wrong because it homosexuality harms, if you do unnatural things it harms you.

    Hindu culture originally was much less homosexual than christian or muslim.
    Good to hear that.

    I am not sure it was tolerant, but supposedly it was unless homosexuality was shown openly.
    I personally would tolerate it too if it is not shown openly and if it is not promoted. I dislike most the gay subculture of the west with their tv programms, magazines,gay parades,festivals etc.


    The difference with the West now is only that is the West U may say U are gay and nobody cares, but in India U should keep this stuff with U. That's all.
    I think in india it is better. Open homosexuality harms the soul of little children.



    Homosexual act there is considered much less sinful than having sex with a person married to another! In scriptures U may find really weird stuff
    Adultery is very serious too, you humble and harm your brother or sister if you have sex with his/her wife/husband.
    "[I]O Indra, lead us on the path of Rta, on the right path over all evils[/I]."
    [SIZE=1]--RV 10.133.6[/SIZE]

    [B]When i look into the mirror i see india, the land of aryans, the craddle of civilization, the mother of all religions.[/B]

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