Page 29 of 29 FirstFirst ... 192526272829
Results 281 to 287 of 287

Thread: Does science have all answers?

  1. #281
    Join Date
    March 2006
    Location
    mrityuloka
    Age
    52
    Posts
    3,729
    Rep Power
    337

    Re: Does science have all answers?

    Quote Originally Posted by sarabhanga
    I am not sure how you are distinguishing Jesus Christ from his disciples.

    Jesus experienced Samadhi and had knowledge of Advaita; but his devoted followers have (generally) not experienced Samadhi and only know Dvaita.
    namaste,
    My reply was in the context of nirotu's post, specifically, his comment about cults of some 'gurus'.


    Are you saying that all teachers of Dvaita philosophy are only “so-called gurus” whose recommendations of eternal devotion to their Paramaguru have inspired mindless cults followed only by “so-called people” who are the agents of mass destruction and death?
    No.
    satay

  2. #282
    Join Date
    March 2006
    Location
    mrityuloka
    Age
    52
    Posts
    3,729
    Rep Power
    337

    Re: Does science have all answers?

    Quote Originally Posted by nirotu
    Dear Satay:

    You must know something about Jesus that is outside His biography portrayed in the Bible. I am curious to know what exactly is different between their teachings and what Jesus taught? Besides, using “cult” to define their clan is simply not true. As I explained to TS sometime back, you can see why followers of Jesus never belonged to any cult.

    namaste,

    You must know something about the 'gurus' that you made your comment about regarding their cults. I am curious to know which gurus were you talking about and how using "cult" to define their clan is true.

    Thank you, Satay. That is precisely my point that you so eloquently summarized. Becoming childlike is true prerequisite. I mean “childlike” and not “childish” because there is no ego playing any role. I try to be like that, holding on to the word of God wherever I go. Because, just as your daughter feels secured, confident, strong while holding the blanket, I feel the same with the word of God.
    you are most welcome and as I already said, "hindus have no problem" with you holding on to your "teddy".

    Blessings,
    [/quote]

    Blessings...indeed...
    satay

  3. #283
    Join Date
    March 2006
    Location
    India
    Posts
    4,193
    Rep Power
    369

    Re: Dear Nirotu

    Quote Originally Posted by nirotu
    My dear Atanu:

    -------

    You are able to see grace in the form of Guru, which is great! While you are blessed to have a Guru of that nature, many follow gurus, with good intentions, only to fall into a trap of self-serving cult. Many have their lives ruined because of that. The Guru has no power to bring about realization if the individual seeker is not energetically seeking. I-----
    Now that, we are in resonance, I would like to close this discussion and take any response that comes from you as the final word.

    Guru is God.




    Quote Originally Posted by nirotu
    My reservation stems from the fact that advaita too has “chinks in its armor” that I am not comfortable with on a practical standpoint. -----
    Blessings,

    OK, since you asked for the final word.

    Reservation and practicality are the gunas. What is practical to you is utterly useless for another. For most scientists, the very beginning of this post would not be acceptable as practical. What about that? Most share market players would laugh at us, calling us impractical fools.

    If Advaita is impractical then Turiya goal is most impractical, since Turiya by definition and by name is ADVAITA.

    Advaita is the name of God. I am not talking of a concept. "The world disappears in Him. He is the good. The best."



    Om Namah Shivayya

  4. #284
    Join Date
    March 2006
    Location
    Govinda Lokam
    Age
    45
    Posts
    738
    Rep Power
    356

    Re: Does science have all answers?

    Nirotuji - After all this in this thread , I must warn you that there is no difference in the approach between Jnanins and non Jnanins. Jnanins focus on the antaryAmi (indweller) while others on the external God. Since God is everywhere both approaches are valid.

    As long as a person who talks about grace does not idle away his life relying on an invisible grace without constantly himself striving to locate God by various means, I am ok with you. People who uphold grace make religion corrupted by substituting grace to make up for their own laziness and worldlness. God will be found only by the most sincere, dedicated, hard striving and earnest person. Meditation means loving and uninterrupted absorption in God - no God can ever be found without this. You dont earn any points by ridiculing this aspect of Hinduism and most of you christians fall into this mindset. I find it very funny to see that Christians call Hindus as fools for practising japa and dhyana and exerting themselves. Dhyana is just another name for unbroken loving remembrance of God.
    Guard your Dharma, Burn the Myth, Promote the Truth, Crush the superstition.

  5. #285

    Re: Does science have all answers?

    Quote Originally Posted by Sudarshan
    Nirotuji - After all this in this thread , I must warn you that there is no difference in the approach between Jnanins and non Jnanins. Jnanins focus on the antaryAmi (indweller) while others on the external God. Since God is everywhere both approaches are valid.
    Dear Sudarshan:

    As I said in my response to Sarabhanga, in the manifest creation when you look at human journey that started with “Advaita (unity, where atman with Param-atman holds)” becoming “Dvaita (Duality, where Father/son connection holds)” and, then it ends up becoming “Advita” to complete the journey, then the concepts like “inner” and “outer” are irrelevant. They all point to ultimate grace that is the “Father (Param-atman)”. The very fact that God created a man implies Advaita has become Dvaita. As long as Atman-Brahman connection (father-son) is the foundation of the reality then Dvaita connects to grace, as a first step will always be the foundation of journey, which is intrinsically is Dvaita.

    Therefore, if you agree with the above statement then the criticism of worship as an inferior mode is not warranted. Also, calling those who see God apart from us, as “Ajnanins or non-jnanins” is also not warranted.



    Quote Originally Posted by Sudarshan
    As long as a person who talks about grace does not idle away his life relying on an invisible grace without constantly himself striving to locate God by various means, I am ok with you. People who uphold grace make religion corrupted by substituting grace to make up for their own laziness and worldlness. God will be found only by the most sincere, dedicated, hard striving and earnest person.

    When this recognition or turning to grace truly occurs, in a true sense of the word, by its very nature such a person won’t be lazy. It is like looking for darkness while facing the sun. Such a person is blessed by grace (truly holding the hand of grace) is bathed in light of grace and by shear nature will not bypass his responsibilities. When grace is guiding, how can one become lazy? It always brings us back to the fact that grace is the primary catalyst for us to strive and work for our salvation. That part is undeniably true. Yes, there are people of many different types of persuasion holding different views but that should not deter you from believing the truth.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sudarshan
    Meditation means loving and uninterrupted absorption in God - no God can ever be found without this. You dont earn any points by ridiculing this aspect of Hinduism and most of you christians fall into this mindset.

    Sudarshan, in my opinion nobody ridicules mediation. It is the “narrow minded -view” that treats worship as inferior to meditation, which to me is more ridiculous than sublime.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sudarshan
    I find it very funny to see that Christians call Hindus as fools for practising japa and dhyana and exerting themselves. Dhyana is just another name for unbroken loving remembrance of God.

    You are missing my point again. Nothing that Yoga or Dhyana or anything you said is being negated. They are all valid. I have been trying to make a simple point that the catalyst for spiritual journey starts with humbling oneself and turning to grace. That does not mean one sits pretty hoping grace will do all the work. It is like, if I want to have a muscular body like a great body-builder I can’t expect God’s grace to do the work, rather I have to go to gym and do my part! Our responsibilities and duties go along with grace. Therefore, all the rest of the activities and personal responsibilities are enabled and helped along through holding the hand of grace throughout the journey.

    There is a big danger in that if the first step is bypassed, the ego may take hold and use it to its advantage. Nothing is more dangerous than ego thinking it is God, and what is even more dangerous, God’s messenger! If the first step is bypassed, the ego can create havoc with spirituality. Therefore, nothing must be left to chance where the ego can jump in and disguise as policeman trying to catch himself (will it succeed?), run away itself with bloated “I” saying, “I am “ the doer. Grace will ensure ego will not bloat up.


    Blessings,

  6. #286
    Join Date
    March 2006
    Location
    Govinda Lokam
    Age
    45
    Posts
    738
    Rep Power
    356

    Re: Does science have all answers?

    Quote Originally Posted by nirotu
    As I said in my response to Sarabhanga, in the manifest creation when you look at human journey that started with “Advaita (unity, where atman

    with Param-atman holds)” becoming “Dvaita (Duality, where Father/son connection holds)” and, then it ends up becoming “Advita” to complete the journey, then

    the concepts like “inner” and “outer” are irrelevant. They all point to ultimate grace that is the “Father (Param-atman)”. The very fact that God created a

    man implies Advaita has become Dvaita. As long as Atman-Brahman connection (father-son) is the foundation of the reality then Dvaita connects to grace, as a

    first step will always be the foundation of journey, which is intrinsically is Dvaita.


    [FONT=Verdana]Therefore, if you agree with the above statement then the criticism of worship as an inferior mode is not warranted. Also, calling those who

    see God apart from us, as “Ajnanins or non-jnanins” is also not warranted.
    What do you think is the state of moksha - is it like the external worship or is it similar to the state one attains in meditation? The former definitely preceeds the latter in the course of one's journey. That is why the comment. Why is Christianity discouraging worship of graven images? In its core Chrsitian saints were true God seekers and favoured medtitation to the worship. Hence idol worship was called evil. Why dont you take the clue from the bible before accusing me. You guys say that idol or symbolic worship is bad. You dont relish meditation either. Hindus cannot be resposible for Paul & Co ( or some of their followers) corrupting the message of Christianity. What is your explanation for bible's condemnation of idol worship so popular with Hindus? I find that part of bible equally ridiculous! Why should worship of status be considered "inferior" ( wicked) if you think all forms of worship are one and the same?

    You must note that most Hindu traditions include both forms, each supplementing the other. There is no way anyone will call the other inferior, as most of Hindu's worship is typically external in nature. Calling worship of God as inferior amounts to belittling my own beliefs. But we also take the quest into the inner self also seriously, and you can see that daily prayers always include pranayama and dhyana. How can an idol worshipping pagan like me ridicule any worship? Hindus hold that external forms of worship are always succeeded by intensive meditation. In that sense, it is held lower.


    Quote Originally Posted by nirotu
    You are missing my point again. Nothing that Yoga or Dhyana or anything you said is being negated. They are all valid. I have been trying to make a simple

    point that the catalyst for spiritual journey starts with humbling oneself and turning to grace. That does not mean one sits pretty hoping grace will do all

    the work. It is like, if I want to have a muscular body like a great body-builder I can’t expect God’s grace to do the work, rather I have to go to gym and

    do my part! Our responsibilities and duties go along with grace. Therefore, all the rest of the activities and personal responsibilities are enabled and

    helped along through holding the hand of grace throughout the journey.
    Agreed! My comments were only based on conversation with some of your christian friends who always claim that they are automatically holy by virtue of some beliefs. When told that muslims are required to worship five times a day, the average christian bluntly says it is not necessary for him because the holy spirit takes care of such things. Although I am very much with you when it comes to this matter, I see that there is plenty of scope for misunderstanding in such religions.

    Quote Originally Posted by nirotu
    There is a big danger in that if the first step is bypassed, the ego may take hold and use it to its advantage. Nothing is more dangerous than ego thinking

    it is God, and what is even more dangerous, God’s messenger! If the first step is bypassed, the ego can create havoc with spirituality. Therefore, nothing

    must be left to chance where the ego can jump in and disguise as policeman trying to catch himself (will it succeed?), run away itself with bloated “I”

    saying, “I am “ the doer. Grace will ensure ego will not bloat up.
    This part is perfect. Our policy is simple, dont assume too many unverifiable beliefs.

    I dont think advaitins believe "I am god" in any practical sense. But the second part of believing onself to God's messenger is true of most christians.

    There is a favourite mantra meditated upon by many Srivaishnavites as taken from Mahabaratha( the surrender of Draupadi) which should summarize our beliefs.

    ha krSNa dvArakAvAsin
    kvAsi yAdavanandana
    imAm avastAm samprAptAm
    anAtAm kimupexase

    Oh Krishna who lives in Dvaraka, where are you, the darling of Yadavas, why have you deserted this orphan, who has attained this pitiable state.


    From a personal point of view, I do not think one gets liberated by any means, worship or meditation. These have to be yet undertaken in many births so that ego can realize the futility of all human efforts and submit fully to the Lord for protection. One chance or birth is insufficient to explore and realize that all that happens is merely divine will at work. God can end all bondage in a moment regardless of the cause of bondage. If he does not do it, it means that what happens is merely his will. If such is the case, what can we make more than what God has willed? That would be the ultimate perspective. Everyone simply goes through the motions, that is all. The moment your time comes, you will suddenly get interested in God and strive for it. Till then people continue to be waded through the rough waves. Do you know why jnanins intefere with the spiritual lives of very few selected people? They see the whole plan of God, just marvel at his creativity and just leave it there. They instruct the very few whom they have commanded to do so by God. One day you might be the lucky one, that is the only way out. Whatever else we do is to become the "lucky" one!
    Last edited by Sudarshan; 18 November 2006 at 11:01 AM.
    Guard your Dharma, Burn the Myth, Promote the Truth, Crush the superstition.

  7. #287
    Join Date
    March 2006
    Location
    mrityuloka
    Age
    52
    Posts
    3,729
    Rep Power
    337

    Re: Does science have all answers?

    Admin Note:
    I think we have trolled this thread enough already and exhausted the discussion on 'grace'. If we just want to keep repeating ourselves please open another thread in the 'Canteen' forum.

    Thanks,
    satay

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •