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Thread: Surrender and Love

  1. #1
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    Surrender and Love

    Hari Om!

    Please forgive. Not certain if this query is clear or will need additional explanation but have given my best attempt at compacting and trying to put some sort of order to the disorder in my mind.

    Quite simply, Is love a requirement for surrender or is it a result of having done such? Perhaps both?

    Thank-you for any consideration and/or guidance.

    Om

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    Re: Surrender and Love

    Namaste Smith,

    If it is seen in non-duality ... then who is surrendering to whom ? So, the question doesn't arise in non-duality and there is no confusion.

    In duality ... there is ego which sees itself distinct and different from every other. But why surrender ?

    a) It may be due to fear ... like, "If I don't surrender ... I would be punished or accrue sin etc."
    b) It may be due to love ... I want no separate identification ... the love is o intense that any thought of separation is unbearable or any perception of different identification is not acceptable.
    c) Because non-attachment to "i" is the first step towards non-duality.

    Now, let me answer your question keeping above scenarios in mind. Surrender is not a pre-condition for love unless it becomes so intense that 2nd condition above is fulfilled. Surrender doesn't necessarily gives birth to love as we can see in 1st condition above.

    So, in my opinion, b) and c) are the best. And in line with your question, b) is the best. I would repeat ... we must love so intensely that surrender comes naturally as a matter of fact.

    OM
    "Om Namo Bhagvate Vaasudevaye"

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    Red Face Re: Surrender and Love

    Hari Om!

    Thank-you and in part what I am seeking.

    For clarification, am currently reading about surrender to Guru which I feel is the ultimate surrender. Perhaps this point should have been made early on but your points still apply. Again, thank-you!

    In terms of this surrender, does it/must it happen more than once? In my case and from the experiences of other associates, in full surrender Guru removes ego. In my opinion, most take it right back! Thus, the need for additional surrender? Is love then ever pure, whole, complete? Funny thing is, just when I feel that I cannot possibly feel a higher level of love, Guruji bestows His Grace and gives yet another gift, more love. Am I seeing this correctly?

    Please forgive as am only trying to figure this one out, not only add to the confusion.

    Again, guidance and insights are appreciated.

    Om

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    Re: Surrender and Love

    Namaste Smith,

    Quote Originally Posted by c.smith View Post
    For clarification, am currently reading about surrender to Guru which I feel is the ultimate surrender.
    In terms of this surrender, does it/must it happen more than once? In my case and from the experiences of other associates, in full surrender Guru removes ego. In my opinion, most take it right back! Thus, the need for additional surrender? Is love then ever pure, whole, complete? Funny thing is, just when I feel that I cannot possibly feel a higher level of love, Guruji bestows His Grace and gives yet another gift, more love. Am I seeing this correctly?
    Oh ! Yes, it is slightly different with Guru because you don't seek non-duality with Guru even though Guru and God are non-different in all other aspects.

    Guru is our guide, the torchbearer who leads us to God. Now, we must follow Guru without much application of our mind. This is because our mind is not free from delusion and it tries to play tricks whenever it has a chance. So, surrender this mind to the feet of Guru. Let's ask our mind to follow exactly what Guru says. What does it mean ? Complete surrender to Guru. Love will follow.

    OM
    "Om Namo Bhagvate Vaasudevaye"

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    Re: Surrender and Love

    Quote Originally Posted by c.smith View Post
    Hari Om!

    Please forgive. Not certain if this query is clear or will need additional explanation but have given my best attempt at compacting and trying to put some sort of order to the disorder in my mind.

    Quite simply, Is love a requirement for surrender or is it a result of having done such? Perhaps both?

    Thank-you for any consideration and/or guidance.

    Om
    Namaste,

    When mind is free from worldly thoughts and do not hanker in them, one is said to have strong vairAGYa. vairAGYA is absence of desires (in mind). As the mind leaves thoughts about world, it strengthens it's grip on ISvara. So love for God increases.

    It happens automatically. The more your chitta is cleansed, the more is sAtvika guNa. More the sAtvika guNa, more is the attraction for God an less is the attraction towards world.

    As attraction towards world and it's objects decrease, love for God increases. With more and more time spend in singing his glories, and chanting his name, love blossoms in devotees heart.

    It is like an attraction, small magnet is attracted towards big magnet.

    Initially one can only give importance to ISvara. Keep chanting his name, develop vairAGYa, keep reading his glories, stuti-s. Eventually, love for ISvara will cultivate. The proof of it is

    Less interest in worldly matter
    More intense feeling of peace and joy
    Calmness of mind
    Feeling of God to be very near
    By hearing stutis or bhajans, one immediately enters into devotional mood
    Listening to same bhajans and other devotional songs has more profound effect on you then it did earlier.
    Never bored to read shastras or hear his glories or chant his name.

    Hari OM
    Only God Is Truth, Everything Else Is Illusion - Ramakrishna
    Total Surrender of Ego to SELF is Real Bhakti - Ramana Maharshi

    Silence is the study of the scruptures. Meditation is the continuous thinking of Brahman which is to be meditated upon. The complete negation of both by knowledge is the vision of truth – sadAcAra-14 of Adi SankarAcArya

    namah SivAya vishnurUpAya viShNave SivarUpiNe, MBh, vanaparva, 3.39.76

    Sanskrit Dict | MW Dict | Gita Super Site | Hindu Dharma

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    Re: Surrender and Love

    In case of Guru, always always stay in dvaita bhAva (as his dAsa) and never in advaita bhAva.

    Hari OM
    Only God Is Truth, Everything Else Is Illusion - Ramakrishna
    Total Surrender of Ego to SELF is Real Bhakti - Ramana Maharshi

    Silence is the study of the scruptures. Meditation is the continuous thinking of Brahman which is to be meditated upon. The complete negation of both by knowledge is the vision of truth – sadAcAra-14 of Adi SankarAcArya

    namah SivAya vishnurUpAya viShNave SivarUpiNe, MBh, vanaparva, 3.39.76

    Sanskrit Dict | MW Dict | Gita Super Site | Hindu Dharma

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    Re: Surrender and Love

    Quote Originally Posted by c.smith View Post

    For clarification, am currently reading about surrender to Guru which I feel is the ultimate surrender.

    In terms of this surrender, does it/must it happen more than once? In my case and from the experiences of other associates, in full surrender Guru removes ego.
    Vannakkam c. smith

    I'm not sure I clearly understand. It seems to me you have to have love of anything you surrender to. And I think you mean ego ... surrendering your ego.

    For one thing, in that moment when you're in the presence of the Guru, your ego is just automatically reduced. It's like thinking you're good at golf (ego), then watching Tiger Woods hit a ball. Your golf ego takes a proverbial beating. Similar with Guru. Although Guru has no ego, nither do you, in that moment. Maybe his no-ego presence wears off on you. I really don't know, and it is hard to put it into words, because it's far more intuitive than mere words.

    Aum Namasivaya

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