Hinduism in academia

[sanjaya]

Vannakkam:

Wow, Sanjaya, I read something completely different than you did. Hopefully Girisha will return and clarify us.

I thought he was talking about western academia and Hinduism, how they (western born scholars) are really out of touch with the reality on the ground. Just like in my profession, the educational theorists don't figure they should ever have to go into an actual classroom again.

But maybe I was wrong.

Aum namasivaya

Hi EM. It could alternatively be that I'm injecting my own opinions into the discussion. You're well aware of my opinions concerning what I think is the foolish Indian obsession with medicine and engineering (but mostly medicine). Like you said, perhaps Girisha can clarify for us.

Namaste,

Totally off topic but,

2 out of 50 state Governors are of Indian descent,
Several state legislators and city council members in various areas are of Indian descent,
Miss NY and Miss NJ are of Indian descent,
One of the guys on staff to John Stewart, Aasif Mandavi, is of Indian descent, and Kal Penn, the guy who left Hugh Laurie's series to work in the Obama Administration, and the girl (Archie Punjabi) on 'Good Wife', and the girl from Bend It Like.. (Parminder Nagra) who was in a medical drama series for some years,
One of the Big Bang Theory characters is an Indian,
I personally don't know of any, but if you looked at the senior scientific staff of DuPont, Dow Chemicals and many pharmaceutical companies, you might be astonished to find quite a few of them to be 'bros',
The guy who got booted out of the White House recently for having illegally tweeted the administration inside info for two years is of Indian descent,
And the CEO of Pepsi, Indra Nooyi, and the ex-CEO of CitiBank, Vikram Pandit, and half the Wall Street inside traders behind bars...

That covers the fields of Arts, Sciences, Politics, Economics and crooks. Don't sell us short.

Back in the 60's when US opened up towards immigration from India, they were selective in importing only the professionals, mostly Docs and Ings. Since then things have changed a lot. Gujus own half the motels in US and many opt to put a copy of the ISKCON version of the Bhagwad Gita in every room. Every crack in the glass ceiling is taken advantage of. Perhaps you are not as disappointed with your own ethnic group after reading these comments?

Pranam.

Hi Believer, thanks for your comments.

I would like to make a note on the two Indian governors you referenced. Governors Bobby Jindhal and Nikki Haley are both converts to Christianity. To me this is far worse than simply having no Indian representation at all. Hinduism is inextricably bound to Indian culture just as Christianity is a Western European religion. By converting to Christianity, these two are basically making a statement to the effect that in order to be active in the American political process, you must give up your Hindu culture and become a Christian. As a Hindu American I'm ashamed of these two individuals, and wholeheartedly wish they were non-participants in our political process. I'd much prefer to look to the example of Senator Satveer Chaudhary, a member of the Minnesota State Legislature from 2003-2011. Much like myself, Chaudhary practices Hinduism, embraces American culture, and has no problem reconciling the two. I wish we had more politicians like this.

Anyway, you brought up many other examples. You've correctly stated that Indians are a part of American society at all levels, both legitimate and otherwise. However, I'm concerned that our Hindu identity is heavily suppressed. For example, consider the actor Kal Penn, who is also active in politics. I've seen him in a few acting roles, and none of his characters seem to actively practice Hinduism. Indeed, I rarely see Hindu Americans actively speaking about our faith and what it can contribute to America. Kudos to the Gujuratis for putting Bhagavad Gitas in hotel rooms, but even this is a well-intentioned farce, since it's modeled after Christian proselytism and active conversion attempts isn't something that we do. A lot of Hindus seem to be interested not in becoming part of this society as Hindu Americans, but in blending into Western culture. Other cultures, most notably Jewish Americans, have found clever ways to be fully American while retaining their identity. Why don't we?

Having said all this, I will say that I'm optimistic for the future of the Hindu American community. I find that a lot of people my age are more active in the practice of our faith than our parents were. They came to America for the sake of economic leverage, and were perfectly happy to quietly blend in. Those of us who are born in the US seem to be more interested in openly embracing Hindu culture. Heck, I probably go to the temple more than my parents do.

Academia are only slaves to whoever supports them financially. In the west, financial support for universities has always come from Christians and Jews. But now major academic institutions are taking bribes from the Saudi Arab oil magnets and have to protect Islamic interests. An outspoken Hindu economics professor can be kicked out of Harvard if he speaks against terrorism in an Indian newspaper. You cannot change academia by becoming one of their PhD puppets. You have to be the puppet master and this can only be accomplished by financial means.

Hi Sahasranama, it's been awhile since we chatted, hasn't it? I'm glad to hear your perspective.

With all due respect, I don't think this is a fair perspective of academia. You say financial support in universities comes from Christians and Jews? You may be right when it comes to Jews (but I have no problem with this, because Jews are generally friends of Hindus). But Christians? From everything I can tell, they hate academia and knowledge in general. My field of study (astrophysics) is based on the premise that the universe is orders of magnitude older than the 5,700 years predicted by the Bible. Science in general teaches an evolutionary view of nature that is not consistent with ex nihilo creation by the Christian deity. Fields such as psychology and anthropology reduce Christianity to natural human responses to external stimuli. Why would they knowingly support this? I don't think it's fair to call us puppets of some Christian political authority.

You mentioned a Hindu economics professor who was removed for expressing certain views. Do you have details? I haven't heard of this, but if this happened it's a major violation of academic freedom.

[smaranam]

Hi EM. It could alternatively be that I'm injecting my own opinions into the discussion. You're well aware of my opinions concerning what I think is the foolish Indian obsession with medicine and engineering (but mostly medicine).

Namaste Sanjay, the OP is talking about The Department of Religious Studies, Hinduism wing, in the Universities, and not about Indian Hindus in the academic field (such as astrophysics or any other sciences and arts).

However, if your point is that more native/born or veteran practicing Hindus should participate in Hinduism Religious Studies Departments in the Western countries, then that is a different story.

[Sahasranama]

Hi Sahasranama, it's been awhile since we chatted, hasn't it? I'm glad to hear your perspective.

With all due respect, I don't think this is a fair perspective of academia. You say financial support in universities comes from Christians and Jews? You may be right when it comes to Jews (but I have no problem with this, because Jews are generally friends of Hindus). But Christians? From everything I can tell, they hate academia and knowledge in general. My field of study (astrophysics) is based on the premise that the universe is orders of magnitude older than the 5,700 years predicted by the Bible. Science in general teaches an evolutionary view of nature that is not consistent with ex nihilo creation by the Christian deity. Fields such as psychology and anthropology reduce Christianity to natural human responses to external stimuli. Why would they knowingly support this? I don't think it's fair to call us puppets of some Christian political authority.

You mentioned a Hindu economics professor who was removed for expressing certain views. Do you have details? I haven't heard of this, but if this happened it's a major violation of academic freedom.

Western science and philosophy has always had a close relationship with Christianity and historically Christians have been the benefactors of scientists and scientific institutions. No doubt there have been disputes between Christian authorities and scientists, but that does not take away the strong Christian flavour of western science. Christian thinking is mostly apparent in the philosophy and metaphysics of theoretical science and less in the empirical and practical sciences. Many westerners pursued science with the motivation to understand God and their ideas often reflect creationism. The fact is that many universities are founded on Christian grounds and many scientists are motivated by Christianity. People have often emphasized the disputes between Christianity and science, but in fact many Christians, including the catholic church, are reinterpreting their scriptures more symbolically so that it can serve as a conceptual basis for science and are looking for parallels between religion and science.

In modern times the Christian flavour in academia is slowly disappearing from the forefront and many professors are atheists or secularists. Nonetheless, money still dictates academic policy. Research is often funded by the industry and frequently produces biased results. Government funding also dictates the way universities educate their students and conduct research. It's also a well known fact that Ivey League and private institutions are receiving donations of millions of dollars from the Saudi Arabian oil magnets.

ou mentioned a Hindu economics professor who was removed for expressing certain views. Do you have details? I haven't heard of this, but if this happened it's a major violation of academic freedom.

Subramanian Swamy, an economic professor who has been expelled from Harvard after he wrote an editorial in an Indian newspaper about Islamic terrorism after the Mumbai bombings. I don't agree with everything Subramanian Swamy has to say, but this incident clearly exposes the political environment of academia and especially the bias against Hinduism in the indology or South East Asia department. The professors who instigated the removal of Swamy were faculty members of the religious departments and indology departments, like Diana Eck and Micheal Witzel. As a Hindu in academia you have to please them or disappear.

[Sudas Paijavana]

Pranam-s,

Sahas is 100% correct. Read this interesting article and see what those who do not hold the sacred fire nor conduct the proper prayers have done in the name of "religious pluralism":

http://folks.co.in/blog/2011/12/26/s...-story-part-1/

In other words: a religion teacher telling an Economics Professor to take a hike just because she didn't like what she heard.

I thought everyone learned from their history courses from middle school and high school that Appeasement is a failed application. Appeasement does not work. Vietnam War? Anyone? Cold War? Anyone? I guess Eck and Witzel didn't pay enough attention in middle school and high school.

[Girisha]

Good to be here folks, this for sure is a fine forum with some very capable and informed voices. I’ll try to be more active, I’m doing teaching at a southern China university and demands have been exhausting and often not terribly well appreciated, but I’m also planning a trip to see more of south India in the summer...

It's my second year here also following a year in the north in Shandong province and I can say that the Chinese generally are not merely atheist but hardly understand the whole concept of the spiritual; they tend to switch off when its mentioned and trying to explain things like god or religion becomes quite an experience.

There is an important minority however who show close parallels with southeast Asian religious culture and up the road is a marvellous Buddhist-Chinese folk religious temple.

sanjaya

I’ve a lifelong fascination for astronomy and I’m interested in relating ideas in cosmology and relativity theory to Vedic thought- perhaps more another time.

I wasn’t talking about Indians and their religion though, only Western academic South Asian or India Studies departments and their lack of genuine engagement with subject matter per se.

Instead of keeping a set of core experiences in mind there is just abstracted book learning, and indeed fear of those experiences as they lie outside the wider intellectual paradigm. With your articulate thoughts I’m wondering where in my original post we managed get ourselves at cross purposes!

I’m British and Hindus in England keep a lower profile than other groups, lower even I think than the Buddhists who have similar small or likely even smaller numbers. I expect the reason is that Buddhism is spread across more countries and Hinduism is more mysterious and adjacent to Western rational thought...

This kind of low profile and understatement however is ultimately very powerful, more powerful than politics or anything else- Hinduism wells up from the culture and the person spontaneously, unlike other religions imposed from above. The great soul of India will topple our world, as Romain Rolland pointed out.

And some interesting points you make about US Indian politicians, and the Gita As It Is as you describe it clearly competing with Gideon practices and other grossness. Hinduism has it own immense power and in a sense doesn’t need our help.

Eastern Mind

I’m in education also, and likewise have lot to say about the systems and institutions we find ourselves working for… I take a pretty dim view of a lot of it.

Sudas Paijavana

Yes indeed. I’ve been drawn in my academic study phases to subjects that go beyond intellectual activity and some of the most interesting questions to be asked are how to make sense of strong and indeed life-changing aesthetic experiences like art and spirituality.

Hence I’ve found very alienating the onesidedness of the academic process of building intellectual explanatory schemes only with internal consistency and without reference to what are universalizable experiences to be had, or at least without reference to some sort of personal enthusiasm for artworks or for religious practice. It's quite a situation.

Academics if they go to India at all just speed from the airport to their five star hotel little bubble for a dumb conference and speed back again.

JaiMaaDurga

Remember that aesthetic or spiritual experience is also dispassionate, being experienced subjectively but having objective reference through the universality of consciousness and the cognitive faculties.

For instance if we’re looking at a beautiful sunset and I say that a pile of bin bags is as good for me then you wouldn’t want simply to respect that relative view but find out what on earth would make me say such a thing.

And for academics not to make reference to what is the objective experience they’re actually theorizing about leads to them to occupy crazy positions, such as arguing for religious ritual being only a reflection of social power relations, or for post-tonal harmony in music.

Both these are key ideas in religion and music and both are nothing but absolutely ludicrous Emperors’ New Clothes parties; I have stacks of analysis this… As with other posters here your thoughts are articulate and almost entirely at one with mine.

There’s a great deal of folly indeed, and some very subtle mistakes of mind going on deep in Western culture, some of which also are expressed in its myths going back to the Greeks and their initial awareness of the lack of balance...

Jeffery D. Long

Sure, the intellectual mind to intuitive mind relation I think is central to our understanding of Western and Indian cultures and notwithstanding the West’s achievements the intuitive mind is the fundamental mind with reasoning only stacked up above it.

Thanks for the note on Kasyapa, I’ll do some research on this.

Sahasranama

The financial basis to any endeavour needs bearing in mind, for sure.

Psychology is a huge thing as well. The academic system absolutely does not select for strong critical thinking ability, particularly not in the humanities, and the characters in it tend to side only with and then derive a degree of personal identity from existing paradigms. I could start really complaining here but will give it a miss for now.

Great reply back to sanjaya… As I understand it the US is now unique among large developed countries in its Christianity not being in sharp decline.

I'll keep all future posts much shorter! And will have a few simpler questions to ask anon.

[Girisha]

You folks gone quiet on me!

[Shanti]

Western science and philosophy has always had a close relationship with Christianity and historically Christians have been the benefactors of scientists and scientific institutions. No doubt there have been disputes between Christian authorities and scientists, but that does not take away the strong Christian flavour of western science. Christian thinking is mostly apparent in the philosophy and metaphysics of theoretical science and less in the empirical and practical sciences. Many westerners pursued science with the motivation to understand God and their ideas often reflect creationism. The fact is that many universities are founded on Christian grounds and many scientists are motivated by Christianity. People have often emphasized the disputes between Christianity and science, but in fact many Christians, including the catholic church, are reinterpreting their scriptures more symbolically so that it can serve as a conceptual basis for science and are looking for parallels between religion and science.

In modern times the Christian flavour in academia is slowly disappearing from the forefront and many professors are atheists or secularists. Nonetheless, money still dictates academic policy. Research is often funded by the industry and frequently produces biased results. Government funding also dictates the way universities educate their students and conduct research. It's also a well known fact that Ivey League and private institutions are receiving donations of millions of dollars from the Saudi Arabian oil magnets.

Subramanian Swamy, an economic professor who has been expelled from Harvard after he wrote an editorial in an Indian newspaper about Islamic terrorism after the Mumbai bombings. I don't agree with everything Subramanian Swamy has to say, but this incident clearly exposes the political environment of academia and especially the bias against Hinduism in the indology or South East Asia department. The professors who instigated the removal of Swamy were faculty members of the religious departments and indology departments, like Diana Eck and Micheal Witzel. As a Hindu in academia you have to please them or disappear.

I agree with your post.

I pursued South Asian Studies as my minor in college from a top university. It didn't take long to realize that much of what was being taught was inaccurate and biased toward the western mindset. The textbooks used are by English authors many of whom derived their information from British colonial days using whitewashed versions of history and tainted characterizations of religion.

I ultimately ended up changing my minor.

[Girisha]

Hi. Of course it's not all bad but I'd say the main problem is that no experience of Hinduism or even of Indian culture by travelling there informs Western academics' perspectives.

They say what are stupid things that they simply wouldn't say or would say with far greater caution if they'd had their souls touched by the essence of what they're studying. It was the same farcical story with my other major subject art music, in both cases the object of study being an aesthetic experience while academic activity is purely intellectual and happy with its exclusive left-brain focus, resulting in some utterly ludicrous theoretical castles in the sky.

[Jeffery D. Long]

Not all Western academicians are the same.

[Eastern Mind]

Not all Western academics are the same.

Vannakkam: That is very true, and a nice reminder.

Aum Namasivaya