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Thread: illusion & honour

  1. #1

    illusion & honour

    In Bhagavad Gita it says - "If you don't fight you will lose your honour and people will talk about it for _ages_".

    -Why should one care about honour, when all is illusion perceived via sense organs?
    - Caring for 'honour' implies having an 'ego' - so why is he being told to fight instead to 'meditate' and get rid of the 'ego' - which is the basis for all the illusion?

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    Re: illusion & honour

    Greetings,

    The term "illusion" needs to be clarified further. Am I to presume you intend to question the Advaitic interpretation of the verse in question?

    In any case, the BG itself answers this question in few ways (need to dig up the verse and purport, maybe later). They are:

    (1)The show must go on. The world will go on with us or without us and we should do our part to leave the world in a better position than how we found it. Human birth is rare indeed for the self. One should make use of it to the fullest extent.

    (2)Krishna himself is the best exemplar of one having to do one's duty. Krishna himself is greatness to the fullest extent. He has no unfulfilled desire. Yet, he chooses from time to time to incarnate affirming his will as it pleases him and his devotees. Why should Krishna incarnate? If he did NOT incarnate, he is no different from a deist deity. His incarnation neither diminishes nor enhances him, yet he does his duty.

    (3)Krishna further states that wherever a righteous person is found, other people are motivated by experiencing such righteousness. So, there is this positive cascading effect whenever one person discharges his dharmic duty.

    BTW, do you happen to be Buddhist?

  3. #3

    Re: illusion & honour

    Yes, I am talking about Advaita.
    Your reply relates to one following the 'Karma' path.
    What about 'Jnana' path?
    Is it that Arjun was a kshatriya and so he had to follow the karmic path?

    No, I don't happen to be a Buddhist.

    __additonally__
    -Why must the show go on?
    What's the use of dreaming/imagining a universe with an earth which has people living on it - suffering and going through same mundane monotonous things everyday, just to realize one day or in one life that all is an illusion.

    What pleasure does the imaginer/dreamer derive by imagining/dreaming a universe (universes maybe?) with (one universe if there are many) having a planet earth and making it real with its powers, where poor people live and go through same things mentioned above e.g. most of them when young do same things sleep-eat-study-play...sleep-... and when matured do same things sleep-eat-make money...sleep-... . Some people (maybe lucky?) find out that all these stuff is useless, renounce them and sit to meditate and attain 'moksha'. What's the point in all this?

    -Who derives what from all this and why is there a need to derive anything at all?
    Human body also can't be said a rare miracle with all its filth and maintenance.

    -It seems according to all these philosophies (not talking about only BG) is that life is like a 'Game' - you come play on earth earn/lose so called 'karmic points', and move on to the appropriate level until you realize all this is useless and make efforts to attain moksha. What's the use of all these things? Is it that so called 'God' likes to play games for fun?

  4. #4

    Re: illusion & honour

    what's up? why is anyone not replying to my previous reply!?
    Last edited by dharma321; 05 March 2013 at 08:14 AM.

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    Re: illusion & honour

    Both dharma and Brahma are important. Yes, the bitter truth is that this world is an illusion and its not real and one must renounce everything but we should not forget that we are here to do God's work. You escaped this world and achieved freedom but what about others? They also need to be prepared to receive Brahma Jnyana, that's why its important to work and establish the truth to every look and corner of the world.

    Arjuna was a Kshatriya and its duty is to do war and if he deviates from this path then its adharma and no one said that if you're a Kshatriya you'll not receive Brahma Jnyana and hence both dharma and Brahma are important.

    We are living in a virtual reality i.e. if you kick the wall it still hurts and this world was created to return us back to fullness so its true everything what you do here is a waste but its not a waste if ultimately its helping us to have progress in our spiritual life.

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    Re: illusion & honour

    Quote Originally Posted by dharma321 View Post
    In Bhagavad Gita it says - "If you don't fight you will lose your honour and people will talk about it for _ages_".

    -Why should one care about honour, when all is illusion perceived via sense organs?
    - Caring for 'honour' implies having an 'ego' - so why is he being told to fight instead to 'meditate' and get rid of the 'ego' - which is the basis for all the illusion?
    Why do you want to mix Gita verses with your "illusion" theory which doesn't have any base in same Gita?

    Can you show me some verse from Gita which supports your "illusion" theory?

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    Re: illusion & honour

    Quote Originally Posted by savithru View Post
    Yes, the bitter truth is that this world is an illusion and its not real and one must renounce everything but we should not forget that we are here to do God's work.
    Don't you see any self contradictions? if world is illusion ,then the God's work is also illusion , then why should you care it.

    You can not just preach something without giving a validity to that very preaching..but you are doing that now, your preaching of "world is illusion" itself becomes illusion and can not prove anything.

    Imagination at its peaks I say.

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    Re: illusion & honour

    Quote Originally Posted by dharma321 View Post
    In Bhagavad Gita it says - "If you don't fight you will lose your honour and people will talk about it for _ages_".

    -Why should one care about honour, when all is illusion perceived via sense organs?
    - Caring for 'honour' implies having an 'ego' - so why is he being told to fight instead to 'meditate' and get rid of the 'ego' - which is the basis for all the illusion?
    Dear dharma,

    Welcome to HDF.

    The world we experience as actual is only phenomenal, but it has a status of its own as an empirical fact of everyday life. Sankara matches the certitude ascertained by the promiscuous mixing of these two different references (named Sat and Chit in Vedanta) as (Cows) Milk in Dog Skin Bag.

    As, such one has to respect the role that is assigned by the nature or social circumstances, and has to carry out ones duties in conformity with ones intrinsic nature or Vaasanas. This is called svadharma in Bhagavad Gita, one of the major doctrinal contributions of this philosophical composition.

    Also refer to: BG: III-21, that is;

    Whichever may be the way of life that a superior man adopts- that very one is by the other people (followed). What he makes his guiding principle, the world too behaves even according to the same.

    ==============

    Likewise it is important to understand the delicate interplay between the interdependent notions such as phenomenon and noumenon, which are apparently two but in reality are the two distinct facets of the Self same Truth.Love
    ॐ इदम् न मम
    be just l we happy

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    Re: illusion & honour

    Quote Originally Posted by dharma321 View Post
    In Bhagavad Gita it says - "If you don't fight you will lose your honour and people will talk about it for _ages_".

    -Why should one care about honour, when all is illusion perceived via sense organs?
    - Caring for 'honour' implies having an 'ego' - so why is he being told to fight instead to 'meditate' and get rid of the 'ego' - which is the basis for all the illusion?
    This has only answer in Karma yoga. Krsna also calls him coward and tells him not to yield to unmanliness because his duty is to fight in a war. Krsna wasn't asking Arjuna to fight from his ego but rather as a Kshatriya to do his rightful duty.A man who doesn't do his duty yields to unmanlinees as per BG.

    Just without digressing much it's the same as Samurai code of Bushido. Honour is their life but they have no ego. I hope you got what I'm trying to say.
    ॐ महेश्वराय नमः

    || Om Namo Bhagavate Rudraya ||

    Hara Hara Mahadeva Shambo Shankara

  10. #10

    Re: illusion & honour

    Quote Originally Posted by dharma321 View Post
    In Bhagavad Gita it says - "If you don't fight you will lose your honour and people will talk about it for _ages_".
    Here honour means believe in self. If Arjun didn't fight he will loose believe in self (Atma).

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