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Thread: chanting

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    chanting

    The simplicity of the chanting process is deceptive. It is a flower that hides a thorny complicated systems of rules , offenses and last but not least a formal initiation process which for all intents and purposes makes the disciple a slave of the guru. From my perspective that makes it a dangerous form of mind control.

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    Re: chanting

    Out of control minds have little hope in anything (good things) anyway.

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    Re: chanting

    Quote Originally Posted by sm78 View Post
    Out of control minds have little hope in anything (good things) anyway.
    Emphasis on the word dangerous. A mind controlled by others is quite likely to do no good, being less than human, chained like a animal

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    Re: chanting

    Quote Originally Posted by cbrahma View Post
    Emphasis on the word dangerous. A mind controlled by others is quite likely to do no good, being less than human, chained like a animal
    Namaste,

    Who controls your mind when you hold it concentrated and who controls it when it flies off without your knowing?

    Automatons cannot exercise free will to control the inbuilt processes and animals have least control over their instincts. What would you prefer?

    Though I am not n love with Gaudiya sampradaya myself but that does not mean that japam is enslaving.

    It can appear so in the beginning but not when results come in. Anyway, upto him.

    Best Wishes.

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    Re: chanting

    Quote Originally Posted by cbrahma View Post
    What's enslaving about diksa nonsense is having to be owned by another human being. Ask an African whose ancestors were slaves. Nothing good can come of it. How would you be in the right frame of mind to even evaluate results? Semantics about the definition of freedom don't qualify. Scary sick.

    Your subject was "chanting", my dear.

    And regarding Diksa. Didn't you attend a school? Was it not enslaving? Have you not heard that Pink Floyd song? But, I suppose still you did go there. If you are destined for diksa you will get it.

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    Re: chanting

    Read the original post, sweetie. The role of guru as teacher is siska NOT diksa, which is an eternal master/slave relationship. In school there are many teachers and students have a life apart from the school.

    It is a flower that hides a thorny complicated systems of rules , offenses and last but not least a formal initiation process which for all intents and purposes makes the disciple a slave of the guru.
    Quote Originally Posted by Atanu Banerjee View Post
    Your subject was "chanting", my dear.

    And regarding Diksa. Didn't you attend a school? Was it not enslaving? Have you not heard that Pink Floyd song? But, I suppose still you did go there. If you are destined for diksa you will get it.

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    Re: chanting

    Hari Om
    ~~~~~
    Namaste,
    I see this is an interesting conversation on chanting and will stay on the sidelines...my only contribution is the number found in the mala beads, most notably 108 ( or divisions there of). Its not unsual to see a 109th bead for the guru, but for this post let me discuss the 108.

    Where does this come from? From a Jyotish perspective, its seen as the 1/9th division of a birth chart. That is, 30 degree's divided by 9 = 3 degree's 20 minutes of an arc or 3.333 degrees. If you take 360 degree's or on full trip around the sun ( or one full trip around a mala) and divide it by 3.333 degree's one ends up with 108.
    Now, why is 9 of any import? There are 9 graha's in Jyotish vedanga. The 1/9 divisional chart is called the Navamsa , yet is recognized as the dharma-amsa, or Dharma-division. This division says much on ones dharma. It is also used for spouse and relationships.

    The grahas outline ones promise, potential and possibilities in this life, so the 9 play a role in our lives, both materially and spiritually. One may chant for one's spiritual advancement, some for appeasement, transcending, etc. as one cycles though the 108 beads. What is of interest is each division ( the 108 in the chart) is associated with a sound or nama nakshatra. This starts in the rasi of Aries ( Mesha) and starts with the sound of Chu, then Chay, Cho,Lah, Lee Loo Lay Loh, Ah for this first 9 divisions. For each 1/9th divison there is a sound, so 108 sounds.Now, pending the sound of ones Janma Nakshata, or the sign Chandra occupies upon your birth, this sound is of interest as it resinates with the native.

    The Graha's also has sound assocaited with them, that stimulate that creative impulse in ourselves and in our surroundings e.g. Sun - A, AA, E, EE, U, OU, RI , REE, LRI, LREE, AE, AEI, O, OW. Yo will find bija mantra's designed around these simple sounds that stimulate cause-and-effect for the native. So, coming full circle we have a 108 mala bead, and we can 'hang' certain sounds on them, mantra's.

    pranams,
    " Make friends with the sky" Frank Sinatra

    यतस्त्वं शिवसमोऽसि
    yatastvaṁ śivasamo'si
    because you are identical with śiva

    _

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    Re: chanting

    What mantra are you talking about. As far as I know GVaisnavas chant the HareKrsna mantra upon initiation.The chanting is considered useless without that initiation.

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    Re: chanting

    Hari Om
    ~~~~~
    Quote Originally Posted by cbrahma View Post
    What mantra are you talking about. As far as I know GVaisnavas chant the HareKrsna mantra upon initiation.The chanting is considered useless without that initiation.
    Hello Cbrahma,
    I could not tell if your question was for me, or for satay...
    I am not familiar with GVaisnavas. Regarding Chanting, are you associating this with my post on mala bead 108 origination? If so, then the Harekrsna mantra is called Mahamantra. The Janaka shadakshara mantra, from rishi Janaka is a bit smaller in length, Hare Ram Krsna, and affects the 6th house (one of service) in a native's birth chart. Both of these come under the guidance of pra-siddha mantras, recited by anyone irrespective of a guru or not.

    I will wait a bit till the polemics (jalpa) in this overall conversation ( on chanting) turns to discussion (vada), before taking these ideas further. This great knowledge is beneath the dignity of getting 'beaten up' .

    What is the difference between jalpa and vada? Jalpa is argument for victory; vada is opposing discussions with the intent of arriving at the truth .This comes under the science of reasoning, or nyaya, which I choose to subscribe to. It requires one to , at times, leave one's ego at the door.

    pranams,
    यतस्त्वं शिवसमोऽसि
    yatastvaṁ śivasamo'si
    because you are identical with śiva

    _

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    Re: chanting

    Quote Originally Posted by cbrahma View Post
    The simplicity of the chanting process is deceptive. It is a flower that hides a thorny complicated systems of rules , offenses and last but not least a formal initiation process which for all intents and purposes makes the disciple a slave of the guru. From my perspective that makes it a dangerous form of mind control.
    Human mind is like a rocket when it soars in the space of spirituality. Both an airplane and a rocket cannot reach their destination without a platform to launch them and a mission control to monitor their flight progress. A true guru who stands up to the meaning of the letters 'gu' and 'ru' that make his name knows when to control the mind of his disciple and when to let it soar on its own. One might think doing the personal chores of a guru as slavery, but this is meant to wipe off the personal ego of the disciple. I heard that in Sri Sri Ravishankar's AOL sessions, shedding the ego is one of the first teachings, where a member is asked to do things in full view of the other members. The things include crawling, barking like dog, dancing, singing, etc.--generally chores that would lesson the personal ego.

    When chanting is undertaken without a guru, God takes the place of the guru.
    Last edited by saidevo; 25 December 2006 at 08:29 PM.

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