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Thread: Did Shiva worship Krishna or Krishna worship Shiva

  1. #21

    Re: Did Shiva worship Krishna or Krishna worship Shiva

    @ Adi,

    Yes Shiva is GREAT
    im agree
    in fact , as far i know, in spiritual realisation peoples who expert in slandering other sect is cant compare with an old woman who cant read anythings but only chanting Om Namah Shivaya with deep devotion.
    I still find many peoples who expert in slandering other sect is have many life problem and stress, even they are the monk or priest (whatever religion), they cant know when they will die and die in peace, many of them die in sorrow.
    But an old woman, who cant read, and only chant Om Namah Shivaya with pure heart, even know when she will die and prepare for the last things for herself, and die in peace meditation

    OM. VAJRA. VISHNUYA. SVAHA
    OM. VAJRA. GARUDA. CALE CALE. HUM PHAT


    OM. AMOGHA VAIROCANA. MAHA-MUDRA. MANI PADMA JVALA PRAVARTTAYA. HUM

    Om Saha Nau-Avatu |
    Saha Nau Bhunaktu |
    Saha Viiryam Karava-Avahai |
    Tejasvi Nau-Adhii-Tam-Astu Maa Vidviss-Aavahai |
    Om Shaantih Shaantih Shaantih ||


  2. #22
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    Re: Did Shiva worship Krishna or Krishna worship Shiva

    Quote Originally Posted by adi View Post
    Hello all, i posted the question and i kind of wish that i had not done so..i did not
    want to spark any kind of debate, infact my question has been misunderstood, i have only been following Sanatana Dharma for a year, i am just looking for the correct approach to my meditation..I just wanted to know what was the focus during Shivas meditations.i did not want to know who was superior.But it's OK now, i found a copy of "Vigyan Bhairava Tantra" which contains Shivas 112 methods of Yoga... I know my knowledge is basic, but i think there is no need to complicate things because you don't need complex knowledge to do Sadhana, infact i think it can become a hindrance because every thought is a deviation from the centre, and i think the centre contains all knowledge without the need for it to be expressed in words, infact i think human language can be a hindrance
    to the true Bhakti... The world owes alot to Shiva, he is the source of all spiritual knowledge which exists...Even Buddha cannot be mentioned in the same breath as Shiva because all Buddha did was expound on one of Shivas methods which he lays out for us in the "Vigyan Bhairava Tantra"..

    At the end of the day, God is God, he goes beyond all names, you can recognise him through silence.Recognition through silence and emmotion is most important. but Human intellect and society in general requires labels...

    I love it...I've even become a Brahmacharya...

    Om Tat Sat.
    Dear Adi,excellent statements and excellent grasp of the subject.The passion,the emotive attitude you already have is very rare even in a born-veteran hindu.I dont think you need any suggestion for your spiritual sadhana here.only thing you need is sat-sang and guru.You just pray lord siva and keep open your eyes for true guru and satsanga.
    Man-naathah Shri Jagan-nathah Mat-guru-shri jagad-guruhu.
    Mad-atma sarva-bhutatma tasmai Shri Gurave Namah.


    My Lord is the Lord of Universe; My teacher is the teacher of the
    entire universe; and my Self is the Self of all. My salutations at the lotus-feet
    of such a Guru, who has revealed such knowledge to me.

  3. #23
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    Re: Did Shiva worship Krishna or Krishna worship Shiva

    Quote Originally Posted by shian View Post
    Thats it,
    when peoples on Sanatana Dharma fight about which is higher and others is false or called persons who devotee of XXX Devi or other Istadevata or follower of other philosophy in Sanatana Dharma is materialistic or even "Lower than a demon", that is also make me feel surprisingly
    Dear shian,Your statement is not appropriate.If you see the statements of Great persons like Chaitanya,Ramanuja,Madhva,Nimbarka,swaminarayana, they have greatly glorified their istha.There is absolutely no problem.This arguments only boost one"s Istha-nistha.

    Its a sign of Love,not lower or demonic attitude. Ask a woman to compare between his dark graduate husband with a very handsome havard educated truly nice guy,she will find fault in latter and hundred glory with her husband.This is not demonic but shows her true love and passion.

    Only SHANTA BHAVA type devotee,jnani(not true devotee in the sense formless form of divine) will not understand this trait of a bhakta and criticise.

    Just fall in love and see how love make you stupid.such stupid is definitely dear to divine.
    Man-naathah Shri Jagan-nathah Mat-guru-shri jagad-guruhu.
    Mad-atma sarva-bhutatma tasmai Shri Gurave Namah.


    My Lord is the Lord of Universe; My teacher is the teacher of the
    entire universe; and my Self is the Self of all. My salutations at the lotus-feet
    of such a Guru, who has revealed such knowledge to me.

  4. #24
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    Re: Did Shiva worship Krishna or Krishna worship Shiva

    The Brihadarnayaka and chandogya are regarded as the oldest of the Upanishads, they occupy a superior position of all the Upanishads known to us. Discussing profound philosophical truths through numerous anecdotes, they form the basis of the later development of the Vedanta Philosophy. Sankaracharya, in establishing the philosophy of non-dualism, derived support from such statements of the Chandogya Up. as : ‘ one only without a second’ (VI. xiv, I), ‘ From It the universe comes forth, into It the universe merges, and in It the universe breathes. Therefore a man must meditate with a calm mind’ ( III, xiv, i) and ‘ That is the Self, That thou art’ ( VI, viii, 7). If a serious student carefully studies the Chandogya Up. with the help of Shankaracharya’s commentary, then he will come to know all the major topics of the Upanishads and will be directed towards the philosophy of the inscrutable Brahman. – swami Nikhilanada.

    With that profound secular hinduism in the backdrop outshining all the denominational schism out there, I see no major issues with vaishnavaites (including Isconites, god bless tham! ) or shaivites following their own Bhakti rituals and get ecstatic in paaravashya all they want . It is that sometimes they get carried away with the nomenclature with Saguna Brahman albeit tad bit more jingoistic at that. These sampradays only strengthened the hindu fold in all those centuries when the hindus were subjected to relentless invasions by the marauders. It is common knowledge that the overwhelming number of hindus are Smartas, some know it some don’t, that remains the ground reality nevertheless. Namaste.

  5. #25
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    Re: Did Shiva worship Krishna or Krishna worship Shiva

    Namaste,
    Quote Originally Posted by devotee View Post
    I wish you had read their version of Bhagwad Gita written by Sri La PrabhupAd ........
    I have read that version but I will not attack them and I choose not to get into a debate about this issue AGAIN.

    Refer to post #24 of the following thread,
    http://hindudharmaforums.com/showthread.php?t=6345
    Quote Originally Posted by charitra View Post
    With that profound secular hinduism in the backdrop outshining all the denominational schism out there, I see no major issues with vaishnavaites (including Isconites, god bless them! ) or shaivites following their own Bhakti rituals and get ecstatic in paaravashya all they want . It is that sometimes they get carried away with the nomenclature with Saguna Brahman albeit tad bit more jingoistic at that. These sampradays only strengthened the hindu fold in all those centuries when the hindus were subjected to relentless invasions by the marauders. It is common knowledge that the overwhelming number of hindus are Smartas, some know it some don’t, that remains the ground reality nevertheless.
    +1

    I looked in the mirror this morning and I found myself stained with all kind of foul things. Under these conditions, I find myself incapable of passing judgement on any of the sampradayes. They are all Hindu and part of what I am. (Maili chaadar auD ke kaise, dwaar tumaahare aayooN - How can I be worthy of meeting you O Lord, my shawl (human form) is blemished with so many stains!)

    Pranam.
    Last edited by Believer; 15 March 2012 at 10:51 AM.

  6. #26

    Re: Did Shiva worship Krishna or Krishna worship Shiva

    When i read Shiva worship Vishnu, i think Vishnu is great but not think Shiva is lower.

    When i read Vishnu worship Shiva, i think Shiva is great , but not think Vishnu is lower.

    When i read Shiva worship Buddha, i think Buddha is great , but not think Shiva is lower.

    When i read Brahma - Vishnu - Shiva and all sages worship Shakti, i think Shakti is great, but not think Brahma - Vishnu - Shiva and all sages is lower.

    This matter is very very common in Hinduism, Buddhism and Taoism (But off course all of this philosophy and way of thinking is influence of ancient Hindu sages of India), so when i worship my Yidam or principal Deity, i never think the other is lower. Never think who is lower who is higher. And i love my Principal Deity but i no need to see other Deitys as lower.

    These kind of story (Deitys worship each others) is have very deep meaning and we can learn from it. That is really not mean who is high who is low.

    Well i find many peoples spread the story of Sacred text is just like a legend or myth, so peoples who read or hear that will feel strange, why Lord doing such things

    OM. VAJRA. VISHNUYA. SVAHA
    OM. VAJRA. GARUDA. CALE CALE. HUM PHAT


    OM. AMOGHA VAIROCANA. MAHA-MUDRA. MANI PADMA JVALA PRAVARTTAYA. HUM

    Om Saha Nau-Avatu |
    Saha Nau Bhunaktu |
    Saha Viiryam Karava-Avahai |
    Tejasvi Nau-Adhii-Tam-Astu Maa Vidviss-Aavahai |
    Om Shaantih Shaantih Shaantih ||


  7. #27
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    Re: Did Shiva worship Krishna or Krishna worship Shiva

    Iam by no means an expert regarding the higher aspects of Sanatana Dharma, somany members of this forum are adepts and masters in this regard who can givethe proper response. But as a simpledevotee of both Shiva and Vishnu, as well as Devi of course, I come from thepoint of view of being a simple devotee and having heard the Gita, Ramayana,Puranas, Vedas and so on from Hindu friends and teachers I am inspired and in factit is these revelations from such histories and sacred texts that inspire mylove for Bhagavan and Mahadeva.

    Take the example of the sacred tirtha, the holy and magic place called Varanasi. I have been to Kashi and my request is thatwhen I die that my ashes be thrown into the Ganga at Manikarnika.

    Now at this very place, there is a Kund or pool which Vishnu cut with his disc
    SudarshanaChakra and is sacred – called the Manikarnika Kund.This pond is said to be older than Ganga according to what I have beentaught. The word Manikarnika meansJewel(ed) (mani) ear(ring) (karnika). Itis not far from Manikarnika Ghat. NowVishnu declared this entire area possessing a divine light, thus it is Kashi orLight. And Kashi is the never forsakenplace of Lord Shiva. You see, Vishnuloved Lord Shiva and being a great devotee of Mahadeva, there is a reason it iscalled Manikarnika and it involved Lord Vishnu.

    When Lord Shiva came upon the holy tirtha (ford, cross over, sacred door) ofthis Kund and this place, which in fact was in honor of Shiva, at that moment Mahadevawas so filled with devotion upon seeing Vishnu that he literally shook. You know, if you are ever in the presence ofa savant, this may happen to you as well, you do not even imagine you wouldhave such a reaction but it indeed happens where literally you can feelyourself shake and it is very strange and almost embarrassing, yet you know ithas something to do with being in the presence of something very special. So the Lord shook and His earring fell.

    So this is the place where Lord Shiva’s earring fell. Shiva shook with happiness when Vishnurequested “that the Lord always dwell here”. So you see, Vishnu worshipped Shiva, and Shiva worshipped Vishnu.

    Let us take the example of the Ramayana. I am a devotee of Lord Ram, who is the same Vishnu and Krishna, who cameto the Earth before Krishna came. As youmay know, beloved Sita was kidnapped by the Rakshasa Ravana. Joined by Hanuman (who is Shiva) and a hostof monkeys and bears, Lord Rama marched to Lanka (Sri Lanka) where Ravana wasthe Hierophant and King – they crossed over a bridge which they constructedfrom India to Lanka, and I have been taught that Lord Rama installed a ShivaLingam before this bridge where puja was offered upon His return from Lanka toIndia. Yet, I havealso been taught that Ravan was a devotee of Shiva,but Lord Ram loved Shiva so much despite the fact that a devotee of Mahadeva wasalso the very one who abducted Mother Sita.

    I was also told that in fact not only upon the return of the Armies was aLingam constructed, but before crossing the bridge to Lanka that a Lingam wasput in place as well. And that, whileRavana had may vimanas (flying machines) which he could have used to destroythe bridge, and had intelligence that it was constructed, yet Ravana did notsend these vimanas out. Why? I am told that being a great devotee of LordShiva, he would not do so because there was this Lingam at that place and notwanting to destroy the Lingam so the bridge was left in place. Where true or not, there are many examples ofthe love between, and the devotion between, Shiva and Vishnu, between thedevotees of each to each other.

    Vishveshwara is the Lord.
    The waves of Ganga are His wine.
    Vishvanatha is the Lord of Kashi.
    Never Forsaken, Kashi is the Light.

    Oh I wish this moment,
    I could be in Kashi.
    Where all the Gods have Come,
    Together to be One.

  8. #28

    Re: Did Shiva worship Krishna or Krishna worship Shiva

    Quote Originally Posted by adi View Post
    I used to be a Muslim but I went to India a few years ago and for some reason I was drawn to Shiva, I left Islam and now am devout follower of Shiva..But i'm really confused, In some places I read that Krishna was a devotee of Shiva and in some places like Bhagavad Gita I read that Krishna is the Supreme Personality of Godhead.In some places i read that Shiva was a devotee of Krishna. I am extremely drawn to Shiva, but I am also blown away by the Bhagavad Gita and Krishnas words..When i start to meditate upon Shiva i feel great depth, but then somewhere in my mind comes the thought that Shiva was a devotee of Krishna and my meditation shifts from concentrating on Shiva to concentrating on Krishna because i feel that is what Shiva used to do, but then I remember how Shiva saved me and took me out of darkness and I switch back to Shiva...
    If anybody has any insights it would be appreciated
    may I know the reasons behind your conversion? I think, they are interesting..thank you

  9. #29

    Re: Did Shiva worship Krishna or Krishna worship Shiva

    Everyone with a little common sense and familiar with Hinduism knows the hierarchy of Gods in it. Basically, there were three main Gods. Brahma- the God of creation, Vishnu- the God of Protection and Shiva- the God of Destruction. Every single story of creation revolves around these three Gods. Either Brahma created the universe or Vishnu did or Shiva as well. Vaishnavists believe Vishnu is the Ultimate God and he was the source of creation while Shaivists believe Shiva as the most powerful one. But none of these theories in Puranas introduces Sri Krishna at the time of creation. Krishna only appear in Hinduism in Dwapara Yuga as an incarnation of Lord Vishnu. However, according to ISKCON, Krishna existed since the beginning and Vishnu is just an avatar of him. There are four Vedas, twenty Puranas and hundreds of Upanishads in Hinduism. Not one of them support the theories ISKCON proposes.

    In recorded history, the very first God to appear in Hinduism is none other than Lord Shiva. Pashupati, the primitive form of Lord Shiva can be found in the Indus Valley Civilization around 3500 BC while Krishna emerged around 500 BC. People worshiped him as one of the ten Avatars of Lord Vishnu, not as the Supreme Godhead.

    That is just plain history recorded by the archeologists. In the history according to the Puranas and Epics(which I personally believe as I got enough evidences to do so), we can find the personalities/incarnations of Lord Vishnu living on the face of the earth throughout. Vaman, Parasuram, Ram etc. Even the existence of Lord Krishna can be proved as the ruins of the sunken city of Dwarka is been found deep below the Arabian Sea. Shiva never appeared in just one point of time or event or in a particular yuga. Earth witnessed his presence more than once since the dawn of time. Why? Because Lord Shiva is above the yugas or time. Yugas are timescale of our world and Lord Shiva is beyond that.

    The International Society for Krishna Consciousness has done a great job in taking the Indian Culture to the rest of the world. A lot of people all around the globe felt the divine call by the touch of Holy Bhagavat Gita. Unfortunately, on their process, ISKCON twisted, altered and distorted Hinduism. They have actually Chritianified Sanatana Dharma. It was formed by Acharya Bhaktivedanta Swami in 1966. Just a half a century old. This holy religious organization turned into a cult and tampered with the philosphies which are some 3000 years old.


    Even though I'm a worshiper of Lord Shiva, I'm not a Shaivist. I don't believe Lord Shiva is the Supreme God. Instead, I believe in Advaita that all Gods are one. The whole 300 Million Gods of Hinduism and even the Gods of other religions are just one. Shiva, Vishnu and others are manifestation of this single entity. In Hinduism, its called 'Parabrahma'. Muslims call it 'Allah' and different names in different religions according to their language.

    What had lead to the misunderstanding that Lord Krishna as the Ultimate God? In Bhagavat Gita, Krishna says such things to Arjuna more than once. Its worth being followed but not literally. You see, Arjuna realizes that Krishna is not just an ordinary human being but is an incarnation of Lord Vishnu. In that sense, whatever Krishna says, its on behalf of Vishnu. Does that make Vishnu the Supreme one? No, Hinduism teaches All Gods Are ONE concept. Vishnu is the manifestation of Parabrahma. The one without a personal form. The energy which balances the world. The energy in you and me and all living and non-living things in the world.

    If you still have confusion understanding, consider this illustration. Artificial Intelligence(AI) of your computer. Isn't it a single entity? Yes, the one which programs the whole machine. You're playing a game in it, suppose..FIFA13. The user(you) is playing against a team of 11 players. They are distinct 11 players but still they all are single AI. They all move in different directions, some tackling you, some guarding the goal post yet, they are one- the Artificial Intelligence. One of the player, lets give him a name, player-X scores a goal. Lets congratulate him- but wait...its the AI who is behind player-X's strength. Player-X dances, is it his skill? Yes...but its AI too. All other players in the opposite team is AI. Maybe, a player in your team scores a goal. Yes, its due to the player's skills but its yours as well. You should be appreciated for the goal.

    So, Lord Krishna was right saying he is the supreme one. But he didn't mean literally, its the Nirakara Rupa Parabrahma who is the Ultimate God. The one without shape or size, eyes or ears, human nor animal- an infinite celestial omnipresent omniscient energy.

  10. #30
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    Re: Did Shiva worship Krishna or Krishna worship Shiva

    Quote Originally Posted by adi View Post
    I used to be a Muslim but I went to India a few years ago and for some reason I was drawn to Shiva, I left Islam and now am devout follower of Shiva..But i'm really confused, In some places I read that Krishna was a devotee of Shiva and in some places like Bhagavad Gita I read that Krishna is the Supreme Personality of Godhead.In some places i read that Shiva was a devotee of Krishna. I am extremely drawn to Shiva, but I am also blown away by the Bhagavad Gita and Krishnas words..When i start to meditate upon Shiva i feel great depth, but then somewhere in my mind comes the thought that Shiva was a devotee of Krishna and my meditation shifts from concentrating on Shiva to concentrating on Krishna because i feel that is what Shiva used to do, but then I remember how Shiva saved me and took me out of darkness and I switch back to Shiva...
    If anybody has any insights it would be appreciated
    Aum Swastiyastu.

    I am just a tad biased (being that I am a devotee of Lord Shiva)...and so, whenever I face this conundrum, I remember that it was Lord Vishnu who offered one of His eyes to Lord Shiva out of devotion (and scored the Sudarshan Chakra out of it).

    I remember Lord Rama worshiping Lord Shiva to get His blessings to be able to defeat Ravana.

    What does your heart tell you though?

    We can go into 'who worships whom' but why should that have any bearing on who you do?

    I like to think/feel that Lord Shiva and Lord Krishna are 'one and the same'. I was even a member of ISKCON for a while worshiping Lord Krishna as a Shiva devotee! I mean, nobody could ever agree on anything....but I loved Lord Krishna all the same. It was the teachings I had problems with.

    If you are meant to be Lord Shiva's there will be no doubt. No doubt whatsoever.

    Aum Namah Shivaya.

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