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Thread: Difference Between Religious And Spiritual?

  1. #21
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    Re: Difference Between Religious And Spiritual?

    Quote Originally Posted by Spirit Seeker View Post
    Where do you draw the line? I mostly post on New Age Forums, so there perspectives are widly different on how they conceive of reality as it is more "scientific" approach as well as the terminology/semantics.

    Is Religion necessary on the spiritual path? Can one be "spiritual" without religion? How do you define spiritual? Most people I talked with feel, Materialism And Religion Are "traps"... I think this is the wrong way to go about it, because I feel this very mindset opposess mostly Mainstream Abrahamic Faiths..

    We should oppose FUNDEMENTALISM..Not the core teachings of the faith itself...Aside from that I think most religions are more or less the same

    I Was agnostic for most of my life when turning away from christianity.. I found a New Faith and I embrace it... New age Spiritual Thinkers think I'm going "Backwards" so to speak..

    What do you guys think though?

    Dear Seeker,


    In addition to what has been discussed;

    Harmonization, in fact, is what religion enables man to attain. Even atheist who avowedly denounce all religions, have their own religion, for they too suggest an alternative way for man to harmonies himself with the TOTAL.

    There no spirituality without a religion (or faith) and a religion without spirituality can be dangerous also.

    A true religion beholds threefold necessity which includes spirituality as corollary. Now we see it,

    1) A set of believes as to the origin, nature and purpose of the world

    2) Devotional and ritual observances

    3) A moral code to govern human conduct, that is ethics.

    Hence a true religion stands for TRUTH, BEAUTY and GOOD.

    A religion by necessity originates from some particular cultural, historical and geographical background. Practical matters have naturally to vary from place to place, from time to time is not be forgotten.

    --------

    A Kind Note: The totality being a goal to be achieved by every person individually, hence religion is a personal matter. Attributing social dimensions are the fundamental reasons that create the problems we face today. Love

  2. #22
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    Re: Difference Between Religious And Spiritual?

    Spirituality"s meaning may be different according to many view,but what the modern age people mean it is that" they try to make them separate and show some superior species from Uneducated,superstitious blind followers of religion,rituals and other nuisances of dharma.

    These people are simply Hippocrates and selectively picks up the points from religious texts that suits there hidden intentions and speaks aloud to get respect from society.

    Mostly such spirituality is nothing but SVECCHACHAR.It invariably leads to no-where or inflated ego and destruction.

    The reason is They deny most of very very important instructions,points simply because of their ignorant thinking,ego.They feel those things silly,unimportant and un-necessary or not suitable for its difficulty to follow or socially UN-COOL.

    But if one really go deeper into hinduism,there is hardly anything which is silly,superstitious and unnecessary though many appear to be so.

    Finally I can say Spirituality is processed canned juice which just increase your sugar level,where as Religion is whole Fruits which only gives you health.
    Man-naathah Shri Jagan-nathah Mat-guru-shri jagad-guruhu.
    Mad-atma sarva-bhutatma tasmai Shri Gurave Namah.


    My Lord is the Lord of Universe; My teacher is the teacher of the
    entire universe; and my Self is the Self of all. My salutations at the lotus-feet
    of such a Guru, who has revealed such knowledge to me.

  3. #23
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    Re: Difference Between Religious And Spiritual?

    Quote Originally Posted by devotee View Post
    Shankara has commented on Buddhism as has been done by Gaudapad too. There is veiled reference to Jainism too. However, did he anywhere say that these paths won't lead to liberation ?

    Moreover, when we are talking about religions and spirituality ... we have to include all religions and all practices. Yes, Jnana only can liberate ... but how can you deduce from this statement that you can't Jnana by any other path ? I would like you quote from Shankara asserting that that Christianity, Judaism, Buddhism, Janism, Sikhism won't lead one to liberation.

    Moreover, how did you start this debate on "liberation" ? It was regarding validity of the paths. It was not at all regarding liberation.
    Only veiled references to Jainiam?Really?

    What is your definition of valid path?My definition of a valid path is one that can grant liberation.I agree that in and of itself following Christianity or Islam will not send you to hell,if that is what you mean.

    Since you accept that Shankara accepts only jnana as a means of liberation,I do not need to search the hundereds of pages of the brahma sutra bhasya to try and remember whete he says nastikas will not be liberated.Shankara's three step procedure for loberation is Shravana,Manana and Nidhyasadhana.
    Shravana means hearing and learning of vedic literature.This automatically excludes all non Hindus.There is shruti proof too.The Maitrayani upanishad condemns those who do not follow the veda.
    Manana means contemplation of this literature and drawing the right conclusions from it.
    Nidhyasadhana mrans meditation on one's identity with Brahman. This automatically excludes non monistic traditions of Hinduism.

    In what way do you think a dvaitin who sees himself as ontologically dependent on and eternally different from the lord and whose path to liberation is to throw himself at the feet of the lord and surrender to the lord going to acheive jnana of his identity woth Brahman.In what way will a christian who thinks he will attain salvation by beleiving in Christ's divinity gain jnana of his identity with Brahman.They do not even want to merge with God.They are not following the method laid down by Shankara.Frankly if you do not give a logical reply to this I will not bother to answer.My point has been made.In thread after thread you do not bother to present your own arguments but simply state your position and expect the other person to accept it,all the while challenging them to provide proof and disregarding the proof they provide.As I said before,the burden of proof is on you.You are the one taking the non traditional position.
    namastE astu bhagavan vishveshvarAya mahAdevAya tryaMbakAya|
    tripurAntakAya trikAgnikAlAya kAlAgnirudrAya nIlakaNThAya mRtyuJNjayAya sarveshvarAya sadAshivAya shrIman mAhAdevAya ||

    Om shrImAtrE namah

    sarvam shrI umA-mahEshwara parabrahmArpaNamastu


    A Shaivite library
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  4. #24
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    Re: Difference Between Religious And Spiritual?

    Quote Originally Posted by devotee View Post
    You have answered your objection yourself. If we consider Shankara and Madhavacharya valid in their own ways simultaneously as Hindus ... how can we say that Only one path is right and the other is wrong. Why did you say that the statement I made was unnecessary and unsupported ? Madhavacharya didn't follow any path other than Vaishnava so his comments are liable to be biased. However, Ramkrishna Paramhansa tried Bhakti, Jnana, Islam and Christianity and attained One-ness with God from every path. Is this example not enough to suggest that there may be more than one path which are valid ?

    OM
    Where did I say that Shankara and Madhva are both correct.How can anyone say Dvaita and Advaita are simultaneously correct?

    What do you mean by saying that Madhva did not follow any other path?Are you saying it is possible to follow Vaishnavism simultaneously with something else?

    As for your so called example,as usual you ask your interlocutor to accept your beliefs as the basis for proif of your beleifs?Why should I beleive Ramakrishna was enlightejed.

    Note here that your arguments also make the assumption that liberation consists of union with a nirguna Brahman.What if liberation consists of attainment of Vishnu's parama pada?Then as a Shaiva,obviously I will not be liberated in this birth,for how can worship of a deity who is not himself liberated gain me liberation?And how can a christian attain liberation?He worships an entirely fictional entity!
    namastE astu bhagavan vishveshvarAya mahAdevAya tryaMbakAya|
    tripurAntakAya trikAgnikAlAya kAlAgnirudrAya nIlakaNThAya mRtyuJNjayAya sarveshvarAya sadAshivAya shrIman mAhAdevAya ||

    Om shrImAtrE namah

    sarvam shrI umA-mahEshwara parabrahmArpaNamastu


    A Shaivite library
    http://www.scribd.com/HinduismLibrary

  5. #25
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    Re: Difference Between Religious And Spiritual?

    Devoteeji,
    For some reason you seem to have found my posts offensive and hurtful and have threatened to put me on your 'ignore' list and you feel I want to pick a fight.I feel hdf is a place for us to share our views and if necessary have them challenged and be prepared to defend them.I will try to refrain from challenging your beliefs from now on.Hopefully we can have more fruitful conversation in the future.
    namastE astu bhagavan vishveshvarAya mahAdevAya tryaMbakAya|
    tripurAntakAya trikAgnikAlAya kAlAgnirudrAya nIlakaNThAya mRtyuJNjayAya sarveshvarAya sadAshivAya shrIman mAhAdevAya ||

    Om shrImAtrE namah

    sarvam shrI umA-mahEshwara parabrahmArpaNamastu


    A Shaivite library
    http://www.scribd.com/HinduismLibrary

  6. #26
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    Re: Difference Between Religious And Spiritual?

    Quote Originally Posted by Spirit Seeker View Post
    We should oppose FUNDEMENTALISM..Not the core teachings of the faith itself...
    Could you clarify what you mean by "FUNDEMENTALISM" (sic) and how that is different from the core teachings of the faith in question itself? Examples are welcome and would be most helpful, actually. Who gets to decide what is the core teaching of the faith in question if there are disputes?

    Aside from that I think most religions are more or less the same
    I think this is untrue. The core teachings of Islam and Jainism could not be more incompatible with each other.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LfKLV6rmLxE

  7. #27
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    Re: Difference Between Religious And Spiritual?

    Namaste SS,

    To me ‘Religious’ means adherence to a path , and willful submission to the faith , rituals and deity ascribed by that path. Quiet often this could lead to acts with out conscience like killings and thievery. And only humans are capable of taking this route. Even Hindus are known to have indulged in this killing frenzy (google about Sambandar’s impalement of 8000 Jains)

    ‘Spiritual’ is more focused on destination , and I believe this is what Upanishads try to teach us. I believe that every creation – not just humans – have spiritual tendencies. While ago I watched this video on animals and morality. Someone might have already done research on animals & spirituality. Note that animals don’t follow any religion!

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    Re: Difference Between Religious And Spiritual?

    Vannakkam: These days I see the term 'spiritual' used as a catch-all phrase, generally by universalists and new-age group or individuals avoiding any connotation with any religion, and especially Hinduism.

    I can just hear it in my head ... the second guy.

    "By the way, what religion are you?"

    "Well, I'm not really into religion, but I consider myself a 'spiritual' person."

    Then I roll my eyes. It's seems to much like some lovey-dovey catch all phrase that's in vogue at the moment. It has very little meaning whatsoever to me. Its like telling your wife her choice of sari is 'interesting', or the movie you just saw was okay.

    Aum Namasivaya

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    Re: Difference Between Religious And Spiritual?

    Quote Originally Posted by Eastern Mind View Post
    Vannakkam: These days I see the term 'spiritual' used as a catch-all phrase, generally by universalists and new-age group or individuals avoiding any connotation with any religion, and especially Hinduism.

    I can just hear it in my head ... the second guy.

    "By the way, what religion are you?"

    "Well, I'm not really into religion, but I consider myself a 'spiritual' person."

    Then I roll my eyes. It's seems to much like some lovey-dovey catch all phrase that's in vogue at the moment. It has very little meaning whatsoever to me. Its like telling your wife her choice of sari is 'interesting', or the movie you just saw was okay.

    Aum Namasivaya
    What a broadside!

    I have no qualm in being a Hindu and a universalist. Seers like Bhagwan Ramana Maharishi had disciples from all walks of life (some were moslems) and he accepted them.

    SD is a universal philosophy and I refuse to be petty minded about it.

  10. #30
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    Re: Difference Between Religious And Spiritual?

    Quote Originally Posted by Seeker View Post
    What a broadside!

    I have no qualm in being a Hindu and a universalist. Seers like Bhagwan Ramana Maharishi had disciples from all walks of life (some were moslems) and he accepted them.

    SD is a universal philosophy and I refuse to be petty minded about it.
    Vannakkam: Hey, just relating my personal experience. I have no problem calling myself a Hindu, and certainly there are branches of Hinduism and people within Hinduism that lean more towards universalism. I'm not one of them, but I have no problem with people that do. People do what works for them. In fact Hinduism, other than Unitarian Universalism, is one of the few religions where people can and do go there ... if they wish. We're very accepting that way.

    Besides, there are many different uses of the term 'spiritual'. I was only relating one of them.

    Aum Namasivaya

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