படைபோர் புக்கு முழங்கும்அப் பாஞ்சசன்னியமும் பல்லாண்டே
May your pA~nchajanya shankha which reverberates on the battlefield, last thousands upon thousands of years...
http://archives.mirroroftomorrow.org...anchajanya.jpg
I see that you and I are partly right. A part of it is from Brahmana period and another from very late classical(unaccented) period. However it is definitely not from mantra period.
Here I quote Witzel
"The hymns are of various age, and many have various additions, e.g., the Śrīsūkta has Brahmana time and even later, unaccented additions. The Śrīsūkta was and is so popular that it is even used by Nepalese Buddhists; cf. also Author, WZKS 23, 1979, 5-28, WZKS 24,1980, 21-82.
This is not my translation. I have given in summary of Hindi translation done by Sri Ram Sharma Acharya, a renowned scholar of the Vedas. It is true that there may be differences in word-to-word translation as I have not reproduced word-to--word translation but a gist of it. Sri Ram Sharma Acharya cannot be considered having a Advaitic bias as you have felt as he started Gayatri-movement (which has lakhs of followers on date ... I am not one of them) and it is not purely Advaitic in nature.
OM
"Om Namo Bhagvate Vaasudevaye"
Pranam ,
Regarding the buddhist caste system , we already had a lot of discussion.
Please see
http://www.hindudharmaforums.com/showthread.php?t=10760
uttama hañā vaiṣṇava habe nirabhimāna
jīve sammāna dibe jāni' 'kṛṣṇa'-adhiṣṭhāna
"Although a Vaiṣṇava is a most exalted person, he is prideless and gives
all respect to everyone, knowing everyone to be the resting place of Kṛṣṇa."
-Śrī Caitanya Caritāmṛta Antya 20.25
I agree that varna and caste are not same .I also agree that they have nothing to do with race. However , Buddhists do have varnasharama because it is reflected in the Dharmapada. In the aforementioned link , I have provided many quotes which throw light upon the prevalence of varnashrama in Buddhism. Caste system is strikingly present in all Buddhist texts, with the exception of none. I couldn't find a single chapter without reference to caste Modern Buddhists deny they ever had caste system.So do modern sikhs.But we do know that in the bhatt bani bhai lehna praised guru arjan of "sodhi" clan. All gurus were khatris and akalis mostly "jat". In gyan prabodh , yagnas and caste system are recommended and in dasam granth kalki avtar it is said that kalki restores caste system.Even today , we see akali , ramgarhi and ravidasi gurudwaras. The Dasam patshah called himself "kshtatriya" and also said "mai naa jaano vipran ki reet" . Buddha also said something on similar lines. .
Infact ,caste in Sikhism is very mild whereas in Buddhism it is very prominent. There were Brahmin court poets in Buddhist Thailand until recently
Which brahmana? Where? Can you please provide the reference
In the Brahmanaspati verse you posted on the other thread, the notion of creator may have been in reference to aditi . It is said that creativity commenced in uttanapad(squatting) position .It follows by saying " Aditi was born from daksha, and daksha from Aditi"
Last edited by Alter ego; 16 January 2014 at 04:31 AM.
Indeed , and not just Nagasena
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buddhis...ahmin_families
Forfeiting titles after conversion , proclaiming all are one , dining together and not mentioning caste even as a passing reference -these all sound very idealistic
But alas, neo Buddhists live in a fancy world
Barring Buddha's barber with whom he had good personal equations , no non brahman-kshatriya was ever mentioned as a disciple of Buddha.
Infact , only upper caste people were allowed to have discourse with Buddha.
This theme is recurrent through out the pali canon but for a reference one can see Ambatta sutta
"Now at that time a number of the brethren were walking up and down in the open air. And Ambattha went up to them, and said: 'Where may the venerable Gotama be lodging now? We have come hither to call upon him.'
8. Then the bhikkus thought: 'This young Brahman Ambattha is of distinguished family. and a pupil of the distinguished Brahman Pokkharasâdi. The Blessed One will not find it difficult to hold conversation with such.' And they said to Ambattha: 'There, Ambattha, is his lodging{2}, where the door is shut, go quietly up and enter the porch gently, and give a cough, and knock on the cross-bar. The Blessed One will open the door for you.'"
http://www.buddhistlibraryonline.net...8-Ambatta.html
Hare Krsna,
Whatever system the Buddhists have it is NOT Vedic Varnasrama, because they don't follow the Vedas. Whether or not culturally they kept some remnant of a social caste-jati system is not the same as varnasrama. While some early brahmin converts to Buddhism may have kept their varna identification, this is not any formal part of Buddhist religion because Varnasrama is part of Vedic Sanskruti and Buddhism formally rejected it.
And the point is, about the blond hair and blue eyes, which is just a variant of British Aryan invasion theory.... nonsense.
As for Sikh's, they are Hindu's with a British corrupted rejection of their roots, nothing more and nothing less. Of course they have caste surnames. What does it have to do with Lord Buddha promoting Brahmins with dyed blonde hair to maintain an appearance of a racial remnant, as per Aryan being a WHITE caucasian race interpolated by British scholars?
There are no Buddhist brahmins because brahmins uphold the primacy of the Vedas. For what purpose a "brahmin" who doesn't even believe in Vedas?
Caste-jati is not the same thing as varnasrama and only indicates a population has Hindu origin, which we know Lord Buddha did as do Sikhs. Varnasrama has to do with maintaining Vedic Dharma, quite an impossibility when you dispense with Vedas.In the aforementioned link , I have provided many quotes which throw light upon the prevalence of varnashrama in Buddhism. Caste system is strikingly present in all Buddhist texts, with the exception of none.
I would like to know the Kshatriya varna of Buddhists, please. Where are they located?
uttama hañā vaiṣṇava habe nirabhimāna
jīve sammāna dibe jāni' 'kṛṣṇa'-adhiṣṭhāna
"Although a Vaiṣṇava is a most exalted person, he is prideless and gives
all respect to everyone, knowing everyone to be the resting place of Kṛṣṇa."
-Śrī Caitanya Caritāmṛta Antya 20.25
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