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Thread: Nathuram Godse's last speach

  1. #21

    Re: Mahatma Nathuram Godse's last speach

    Quote Originally Posted by satay View Post
    However, I fail to see Godse's logic. Why murder the man? Why not wait a few years till he gets dignified natural death? Godse himself says that before he shot Gandhi that Gandhi was frail and weak (possibly just like our nation then). Why kill a weak man? Why not wait for his natural death? What more could India have lost that it didn't already in the past 200 years since then?
    That's because once you have been convinced of your duty, you need to carry it, disregarding the consiquence to oneself.

    I imagine it was extremely difficult for Nathuram to witness godification of a man he has come to believe has evil and needs to be removed. Each second of waiting is equivalent to that much thwarting of one's own conscience and sense of duty.

    There is another basic fact explained in Gita about karma. We as individuals have only the ability and right to control & direct our own actions. We neither have right to its fruits nor ability to control actions and consiquences of things around us. Nathuram had no business in postulating what might happen to Gandhiji and undermine his own karma - since that's all he had control over.

    If we stop thinking us as the overlords whose actions really matter to the world and just concentrate on our part, most course actions become much easy to decide and act upon.

    In present day logic, a killer automatically gets branded as fanatic and equiated to Osama bin laden, while person directly responsible for death of unteem millions are branded as Mahatmas, just because they talk from a high pedestal and don't dirty their hands. With such myopic vision and understanding of whats consitititues right and wrong action, there is little hope of getting beyond imposters.
    What is Here, is Elsewhere. What is not Here, is Nowhere.

  2. #22
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    Re: Mahatma Nathuram Godse's last speach

    Not to sidetrack the issue, but in the same vein, when we were growing up, any mention of the question, 'after Nehru who?' was almost treated as treason. Our simple minds did not want to think that Nehru would ever die and India would have to replace him with a new PM. We were living in a dreamlike state where we were somehow going to cheat Yamraj himself and keep Nehru alive for ever, because he was synonymous with the very existence of the Indian nation. How stupid were we to have worshiped a man like him. He did his bit to the best of his abilities. That is all that can be expected from a man. But to idolize him and never see his faults and expect him to live for ever was crazy. Coming out of the shock of partition put lot of people in a trance type psyche. Whatever he could not accomplish (=screw up) is being finished by his descendents. What a disgrace!

    To keep living that lie and to never think about their accountability even after the passage of so much time is unfortunate to say the least. But everyone is entitled to his/her opinion. As long as both sides of the issue are presented here, observers/readers can decide for themselves. And how the heck did I get sucked into this debate in the first place? Oh yeah! because of the discussion about the Mahatma (Nathu Ram).

  3. #23

    Re: Mahatma Nathuram Godse's last speach

    Quote Originally Posted by devotee View Post
    It is unfortunate to see the young generation of India so much misled by the propaganda against Gandhi & our history. I only hope that one day these children (who have learnt history perhaps only through internet & reading articles by biased people) would certainly know the truth.
    Devotee Jee -
    So true. People are getting carried by some irrational and emotional issues about Gandhi Ji. One can dislike his principles, his method; but one cannot doubt his intention to bring about changes in ordinary, poor Indian. When most of the leaders in Congress at his time were making speeches travelling in airconditioned cars, he gave up all these, connected with people, started and inspired so many movements in the country that they still continue today.
    I have read his books, and can have a separate discussion about what I find appealing, and what not about his ideas.

    Looking at Nathuram's actions, I assume he acted in Ksatriya Dharma. He thought (I believe wrongly) that by killing Gandhi he was protecting the Dharma. The question to ask is - if Arjuna were there, and Krishna was advising him what to do? What would he advise? Go and kill an old man on his way to temple for a prayer. Can you believe it?

    If he really wanted to fight, he could have fought the adharmis. But it is not as easy as shooting an unarmed old man. Is it?

    Nathuram's actions were Adharmic. He did not follow his Dharma.

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    Hare Krishna

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    Re: Mahatma Nathuram Godse's last speach

    Quote Originally Posted by sm78 View Post
    In present day logic, a killer automatically gets branded as fanatic and equiated to Osama bin laden, while person directly responsible for death of unteem millions are branded as Mahatmas, just because they talk from a high pedestal and don't dirty their hands. With such myopic vision and understanding of whats consitititues right and wrong action, there is little hope of getting beyond imposters.
    Well said. The shastras say that himsa is not only hurting someone, but also not fighting when it's your duty to protect. Intelligent people will see that Gandhi did not uphold the principles of ahimsa at all. We can not justify Gandhi's actions as "an experiment," Gandhi did not have the right to experiment with Hindu lives, the time proven method in all history and in the shastras is to fight against evil. Gandhi's admiration for the Gita was only lipservice, because he did not adhere to its teachings. Gandhi said he rejected the parts of the Gita where violence is recommended, many Indians are worshipping the teachings of Gandhi above the teachings of Sri Krishna. Gandhi went so far as to demand 55 crore rupees to support an enemy nation, he blackmailed the goverment with his "fast unto death." Nathuram did what every Hindu should have done.
    Last edited by Sahasranama; 07 January 2011 at 07:49 AM.

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    Re: Mahatma Nathuram Godse's last speach

    Namaste Harekrishna,

    Quote Originally Posted by harekrishna View Post
    Looking at Nathuram's actions, I assume he acted in Ksatriya Dharma. He thought (I believe wrongly) that by killing Gandhi he was protecting the Dharma. The question to ask is - if Arjuna were there, and Krishna was advising him what to do? What would he advise? Go and kill an old man on his way to temple for a prayer. Can you believe it?

    If he really wanted to fight, he could have fought the adharmis. But it is not as easy as shooting an unarmed old man. Is it?
    That is an excellent observation Harekrishna ! You are right. If he was such a great hero & considered himself the champion of the Hindus why didn't he go & fight the British commandars who perpretrated inhuman crime against Indians including Hindus ? Yes, it was so easy to kill an unarmed old man than to fight a young armed British ! and so, his choice was clear !! He certainly was an intelligent man, I agree. Can we call him a Mahatma or a coward of the first order ?

    ********************
    The follwing passage is only for people who may like to think rationally and not for everyone. Those who are die-hard anti-Gandhi, may please excuse me :

    The biggest and (may be) valid objection to Gandhi's policies was his so-called appeasement policy towards Muslims (even at the cost of Hindu interests). Why did he behave in this manner ? I have done some analysis and I produce it below :

    a) Let's understand that the Nation was not one. It was yet to built up as one India. Let's remember that in the round-table conference the representations from different sections within India was a clear signal that even if granted freedom, India would disintegrate into at least 4-5 different countries. This would have been the greatest blow to India. This had to be stopped at all costs. So, it was very important that the Congress which was claiming as the One acceptable voice of India should talk for all sections within India without any discrimination towards region, religion or caste.

    Now, keeping the above constraint in mind, let us remember that Jinnah and his supporters were hell bent on giving credence to Two-nation theory & that was to be effectively countered. Mahatma Gandhi's and Congress's policy towards soft attitude towards Muslims paid dividends and Muslim League was badly defeated in provincial elections & therefore, the bargaining power of Muslim League was greatly reduced by this masterstroke.

    We have to keep in mind that though we still lost East and West Pakistan but we could have lost much more as there were many places in India where the Muslims were in larger numbers.

    Those who criticise Gandhi's so-called appeasement policy, fail to realise that Gandhi had no personal motive to adopt this policy except the greater cause of the Nation. He didn't have any political or financial or any ambitions to fulfil. The "half-naked fakir" may have made mistakes but his love towards India and the Indian people even at the cost of his personal life cannot be questioned.

    b) Now the question is what cost we paid for such a policy ? Almost nothing. We can see the numbers of Muslims and Hindus killed in riots which followed after partition. Gandhi's policy didn't help Muslims in such situations. This policy can work only when sanity is there and not in fit of madness of the mob. Can we say that because of Mahatma's policy more Hindus were killed or Hindus lose something more than they were otherwise had to ?

    c) Godse killed Gandhi because he thought he was serving the cause of the Hindus. The reality is that he did the greatest disservice to Hindus and Hindutwa by this act. This cowrdice of Godse spoiled the image of Hindu organisations like RSS (who were critical of Gandhi's appeasement policy but were no way connected with killing of Gandhi). The entire organisation's image took a severe beating which could not be said to be advantageous to Hindus. Till today, at every political opportunity, this & similar organistaion are blamed for their extremist theories (including killing Gandhi) & they are required to defend themselves. Let me remind you that during emergency, RSS was banned for a pretty long time & anyone associated with this organisation had to hide to evade arrest and prosecution. I was one of the active members of RSS at that time.

    d) For Gandhi, the nation was important. The Hindus and Muslims are both the children of the same country. Whom should he favour ? None ! But it is natural tendency of the weaker child of parents to feel threatened and he has to be again and again reassured by parents. The parents don't discriminate among their children but they take care that their weaker child is not left behind in the race of life. This I have felt in my own family. Gandhi did choose to ignore Muslims' faults and that was politically right (as if he had chosen to speak against them, he could have only added fuel to the fire and the already threatened Muslims could not have courage to stay in this country).

    Why did (or do) Muslims feel threatened ? This is natural psychology of the minority living in any country. We can't blame them.

    ***************************

    I din't intend to act as Gandhi's advocate & I am not qualified for that but that is what I attempted to do here above ! Just a food for thought, you are free to agree or disagree.

    OM
    "Om Namo Bhagvate Vaasudevaye"

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    Re: Mahatma Nathuram Godse's last speach

    Pranam Devotee

    Quote Originally Posted by devotee View Post
    I din't intend to act as Gandhi's advocate & I am not qualified for that but that is what I attempted to do here above ! Just a food for thought, you are free to agree or disagree.

    OM
    Nice try anyway, i do not think indulging in character assassination is very healthy, we Hindus are very good at shooting ourselves in the foot. also where is the logic in holding someone directly responsible for mass murder of millions. Last time i checked the partition was desire of Jina and musalman how can we hold someone else responsible for it.

    Jai Shree Krishna
    Rig Veda list only 33 devas, they are all propitiated, worthy off our worship, all other names of gods are derivative from this 33 originals,
    Bhagvat Gita; Shree Krishna says Chapter 3.11 devan bhavayatanena te deva bhavayantu vah parasparam bhavayantah sreyah param avapsyatha Chapter 17.4 yajante sattvika devan yaksa-raksamsi rajasah pretan bhuta-ganams canye yajante tamasa janah
    The world disappears in him. He is the peaceful, the good, the one without a second.

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    Re: Mahatma Nathuram Godse's last speach

    namaste,

    Quote Originally Posted by sm78 View Post
    That's because once you have been convinced of your duty, you need to carry it, disregarding the consiquence to oneself.

    I imagine it was extremely difficult for Nathuram to witness godification of a man he has come to believe has evil and needs to be removed. Each second of waiting is equivalent to that much thwarting of one's own conscience and sense of duty.
    I see your point but Godse was born in a Brahmin family. If anything it wasn't his 'duty' to kill anyone let alone Gandhi. Also, I don't think Godse thought of Gandhi as 'evil' godified individual. In fact, he bowed down to the guy before shooting the frail and weak man.

    Saying that it was every hindu's duty to kill such a man as Gandhi is a very hard pill for me to swallow.

    My opinion is that Godse just acted in a haphazzard way without thinking and without planning. Why not plan to shoot some high officials of british government like Bhagat singh and his group did. Why shoot Gandhi, the easy target...

    I agree with Godse that Gandhi's policies were not in favour of the hindus but I don't see the logic of shooting the man down. There were others much worse than Gandhi that deserved to be shot.
    satay

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    Re: Mahatma Nathuram Godse's last speach

    This was his reason to kill him, Gandhi controlled the goverment like his puppets:

    "The central government had taken a decision -- Pakistan will not be given Rs 55 crores. On January 13 Gandhi started a fast unto death that Pakistan must be given the money. On January 13, the central government changed its earlier decision and announced that Pakistan would be given the amount. On January 13, I decided to assassinate Gandhi. "

    I see your point but Godse was born in a Brahmin family. If anything it wasn't his 'duty' to kill anyone let alone Gandhi.
    Brahmins have to step up when the kshatriyas are irresponsible. Parashurama was a brahmin and he killed the kshatriya kings.

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    Re: Mahatma Nathuram Godse's last speach

    Yes, Sahas, I know that was his reason. My argument is that it wasn't a good enough reason...

    Gandhi's blackmailing antics could have been taken care of in other ways. 55 Crore rupees is not the end of the world nor is it the end of the hindus. Even when we gave this dana/charity to the pakis did they accomplish anything with it? It's a bankrupt piece of **** even today.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sahasranama View Post
    Brahmins have to step up when the kshatriyas fail. Parashurama was a brahmin and he killed the kshatriya kings.
    Yes, in that case though Godse should have planned it properly and created of hit list of people that deserved to be shot, not just Gandhi. But I don't know what was going on in Godse' mind so I will stop judging him now.
    satay

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    Re: Mahatma Nathuram Godse's last speach

    I don't know how much 55 crore rupees was worth in that time, but any dime that goes to pakistan is one too much. Hindus in Papisthan were not save and are still to this day living in fear in Papisthan. Gandhi did not care about that and told Hindus not to leave the country, but rather stay there and die. What did Papisthan do with the money, weren't they involved in terrorist attacks against kashmir at that time? How rational and non violent was it to financially support the people who were attacking innocent Hindus.

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