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Thread: Predestination irt Hinduism?

  1. #1

    Predestination irt Hinduism?

    I wonder how predestination sits in hinduism?.
    How can it be many a yogi, will come to know his own time of physical death? upfront.

    That would seem to me as if all was predestinated to be?. And one would have little influence on things to be, like death.

    bye,

  2. #2

    Re: Predestination irt Hinduism?

    om gurave namah


    Namaste Brahmarama,

    Welcome to HDF; Might I suggest that the yogi decides when it is time to die, and does so when he feels that his duty is done; why stay if you have obtained freedom of the soul? In this regard, perhaps he is aware of much more than his time of death, for one, that death is quite simply a transition:

    Did you know that a dolphin has been observed leaving the planet by choice, by simply stopping breathing; this was observed in one captive dolphin. The effect of which was to reverse the life path of its captive keeper.

    What is Hinduisme?

    Kind regards.
    Last edited by Mana; 27 February 2014 at 02:45 PM.

  3. #3

    Re: Predestination irt Hinduism?

    Namaste,

    As an extra thought on the matter; a saṁnyāsin has already performed their own death rites, when he/she takes their vows.

    Kind regards.
    Last edited by Mana; 28 February 2014 at 12:47 PM.

  4. #4
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    Re: Predestination irt Hinduism?

    hari o
    ~~~~~~
    namasté


    The ~physics~ behind this is described as the following...

    We are all beyond birth and death - this is verified by kṛṣṇa-ji . He informs us in chapter 2, 12th śloka of the bhāgavad gītā:
    there never was a time when I was not, nor you, nor these rulers
    of men. Nor will there ever be a time when all of us shall cease to be.

    So, what of the physical body? It subsides/retires once prārabdha karma-s are exhausted ( or the residue of actions , some call leśāvidya¹)

    iti śiva

    words


    • leśāvidya
      • leśa + avidya gives leśāvidya
      • leśa = a small part or portion , particle , atom , little bit or slight trace
      • avidya = ignornace
    Hence we remain in this frame due to the remains ( a small portion) of ignorance. Some small atomic part. Perhaps the awareness is perfect and stainless completely residing in the SELF/brahman, yet there are other parts perhaps that still are infused with ignorance within the physical frame.
    Last edited by yajvan; 27 February 2014 at 05:57 PM.
    यतस्त्वं शिवसमोऽसि
    yatastvaṁ śivasamo'si
    because you are identical with śiva

    _

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    Re: Predestination irt Hinduism?

    hari o
    ~~~~~~
    namasté




    Quote Originally Posted by yajvan View Post

    So, what of the physical body? It subsides/retires once prārabdha karma-s are exhausted ( or the residue of actions , some call leśāvidya¹)
    ...yes, yajvan , I see this but I do not get how one will know the timing of one's death

    If we look to patañjali’s yogadarśana, vibhūti pāda (or chapter 3) we are informed that the past or the future can be derived by saṁyama on (the) pariṇāma-s or changes, alterations, transformations. Since the body is a field of tattva-s they are changing. The realized one then by inspection on the pariṇāma-s of the body , knows the timing and outcome.

    iti śiva
    words


    • leśāvidya
      • leśa + avidya gives leśāvidya
      • leśa = a small part or portion , particle , atom , little bit or slight trace
      • avidya = ignornace
    Hence we remain in this frame due to the remains ( a small portion) of ignorance. Some small atomic part. Perhaps the awareness is perfect and stainless completely residing in the SELF/brahman, yet there are other parts perhaps that still are infused with ignorance within the physical frame.
    यतस्त्वं शिवसमोऽसि
    yatastvaṁ śivasamo'si
    because you are identical with śiva

    _

  6. #6

    Re: Predestination irt Hinduism?

    Namaste and Hello,



    Confused? the yogi i was reffering to was Vivekanada as far as i red he was troubled in this life with a lot of physical discomfort, and some sickness et al.

    What i red about his death that it was not a decision on his part, but a statement of realization of things to come.
    I understand about the transition from gross to subtle, but my understanding at this point in this life, leads me to believe that physical death can be avoided for at least some centurys, in my opinion one should be able to live at least a few hundered years, like the turtle.

    But somehow when your food get tainted with, and your water and air seems loaded with particles unfit for sustaining life, it may become very difficult to realise this.
    I red also its wrong to cling to life, wonder why? if one lives with understanding and good conduct.

    Stay Blessed,

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    Re: Predestination irt Hinduism?

    hari o
    ~~~~~~
    namasté

    Quote Originally Posted by Brahmarama View Post
    What i red about his death that it was not a decision on his part, but a statement of realization of things to come.
    I understand about the transition from gross to subtle, but my understanding at this point in this life, leads me to believe that physical death can be avoided for at least some centurys, in my opinion one should be able to live at least a few hundered years, like the turtle.
    I'd like to comment on just a few ideas here... again, this is for one's kind consideration and another point of view.

    Why avoid physical death ? It is inevitable. When one thinks the body is the real 'me' then the preservation of the body is top priority and people fear death because of this loss.
    But when one has become ātmamukhaṃ¹ (possessed of the Self) the body falls back in its predominance. It is like the moon that shines during the daylight hours. One sees it, yet the brightness of the sun is extremely munificent in its appeal. So too with the body. It is seen for its utility but not for one's point of reference of existing.

    Does this mean one should not take care of the body ? No, that is not the message. The intent is to suggest 'you' are not the body¹ - it is the vehicle. We take care of the vehicle, but we do not confuse it with who we really are.

    Once one comes to understand one's real status then there is no birth or death, so death is avoided for all time.

    iti śiva

    words


    Last edited by yajvan; 28 February 2014 at 12:41 PM.
    यतस्त्वं शिवसमोऽसि
    yatastvaṁ śivasamo'si
    because you are identical with śiva

    _

  8. #8

    Re: Predestination irt Hinduism?

    ""Why avoid physical death ? It is inevitable "" True but that does not have to mean, one can try to extend ones life, think of the more good you can do living longer.

    ""Once one comes to understand one's real status then there is no birth or death, so death is avoided for all time.""

    I understand my real status but am pretty far from not being born again atm, i have to live the status.

    I think many a illuminated seer dies way young, and cannot understand it, history is full of documentation on people who lived well beyond 100.
    I think one is to actively cleanse the body.

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    Re: Predestination irt Hinduism?

    hari o
    ~~~~~~
    namasté

    Quote Originally Posted by Brahmarama View Post
    I think many a illuminated seer dies way young,
    Again, what is dying ? surely not 'you'... One has no sorrow for a worn-out pair of pants.


    iti śiva
    यतस्त्वं शिवसमोऽसि
    yatastvaṁ śivasamo'si
    because you are identical with śiva

    _

  10. #10

    Re: Predestination irt Hinduism?

    Then what is the point in being born?.

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