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Thread: purifying knowledge...

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    purifying knowledge...

    hariḥ oṁ
    ~~~~~~
    namasté


    If we look to the 4th chapter of the bhāgavad gītā , 4th chapter, 38th śloka, kṛṣṇa-jī informs us:

    surely (hi) there is nothing (na) that exists (vidyte¹) in this world (iha) that is so purifying (pavitra) like (sadṛśa) knowledge (jñāna).

    Then we look to the śivasūtra-s¹ . Both in the 1st chapter (2nd sūtra) and 3rd chapter ( 2nd sūtra) we find the following:
    jñānaṁ bandhaḥ || 2
    This says, knowledge is bondage.

    Wait a minute. How can two śāstra-s , one being a śivāgama¹, seemingly contradict each other ?
    Why would you care ? One reason is if you look on the main page of HDF, you will find this śloka from the bhāgavad gītā called out in the upper right hand corner albeit in saṃskṛtam.

    HDF is predicated on the principle of knowledge. Hence it seems reasonable that the HDF member should be aware of the depth and breadth of its meaning and perhaps its intent.

    For some, suggesting there is nothing more purifying then knowledge, indicates that knowing things such as the knowledge found in science, biology, history, and the like is a good thing – it purifies.
    This may satisfy some. But within sanātana dharma this knowledge takes on a deeper and more significant role other than the knowledge of physics, math, social sciences and the like. It is even more profound than reading the various śāstra-s.

    So, that will be the intent of the next few posts. To compare and contrast this notion of knowledge and see how we can reconcile the bhāgavad gītā quote with the which came from the śivasūtra-s.

    iti śivaṁ

    words
    • iha – in this world; in this place
    • vidyte – the 3rd derivation is rooted in vid. We find the definition to be ‘there is , there exists’ , often with na , ‘there is not’
    • śivasūtra-s were revealed to vasugupta-ji. The most authoritive writing/commentary on this book/revelation is offered by kṣemarāja and is called śivasūtravimarśinī-hṛdaya. This says the examination, knowledge discussion (vimarśa) of the śiva sutra-s. The notion of hṛdaya means 'heart', suggesting the core, the inner most. Hence it now says, the inner most knowledge being discussed on the śiva sutra-s.
    • śivāgama – āgama = that which has come down.
      • But on further inspection we can look at it in this form: the term āgama comes from ā + gam + a . This gam is a key term which means ‘to come’, or ‘to let go’.
      • The sound form ‘a’ is aligned to śiva and ā aligned to śakti. It suggest that which has come down from śiva & śakti, but also it suggests that which has come down from śiva to śakti.
        • It suggests a path of knowledge being handed down, and this is found within the school of kaśmir śaivism. That is, there is 6 levels of question-and-answer conversation) that can occur. From the highest where śiva asks and answers the question to śakti asking and śiva responding, to a ṛṣi asking and nandī responding, etc.
    यतस्त्वं शिवसमोऽसि
    yatastvaṁ śivasamo'si
    because you are identical with śiva

    _

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    Re: purifying knowledge...

    delete
    Last edited by Ram11; 09 July 2015 at 06:40 PM.
    He dances in the golden hall of Chidambaram, Let us worship His rosy anklet girt Feet.

  3. #3

    Re: purifying knowledge...

    Namasthe !



    It is not Knowledge itself, but the pride in knowledge that is bondage. In addition, shastra vasanas of three types are dangerous:

    paaThavyasanam : mania for reciting the vedas.
    Saastravyasanam - Mania for study of scriptures other than Vedanta.
    Anushthaanavyasanam - mania for performance of rituals.

    These do have an indirect role in gaining self knowledge but they become obstructions, the movement they themselves assume the dimention of a goal.

    Love!
    Silence
    Come up, O Lions, and shake off the delusion that you are a sheep

  4. #4
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    Re: purifying knowledge...

    hariḥ oṁ
    ~~~~~~
    namasté

    If we look to the 4th chapter of the bhāgavad gītā , 4th chapter, 38th śloka, kṛṣṇa-jī informs us:
    surely (hi) there is nothing (na) that exists (vidyte¹) in this world (iha) that is so purifying (pavitra) like (sadṛśa) knowledge (jñāna).

    Then we look to the śivasūtra-s¹ . Both in the 1st chapter (2nd sutra) and 3rd chapter ( 2nd sutra) we find the following:
    jñānaṁ bandhaḥ || 2
    This says, knowledge is bondage.

    Now, how to make sense of this ? I only ask the reader to take their time on this matter as it may take a few reads to come to an understanding of the following...


    Setting the stage
    Knowledge and the knower are intimately connected. In fact the vijñāna bhairava kārikā-s inform us that knowledge illumines everything in this world and the Self (too) is that which illuminues. They both are of the same nature. Yet said another way knowledge makes you understand things in this world, and the Self (ātmā) allows you to understand. So let’s look at this:
    • knowledge makes you understand things in this world = differentiated knowledge . The knowledge of items e.g. the blueness of the sky, the depth of the ocean, algebra, math, science, social studies, etc.
      • differentiated = fragmented; items, ~things~.
    • the Self (ātmā) allows you to understand = undifferentiated knowledge or wholeness , fullness of Being; consciousness itself that allows or enables comprehension (knowing) to occur.
      • undifferentiated = wholeness , fullness, without break or pause.
    When you do not have knowledge of your own full Self (ātmā) then your knowledge resides in the fragmented world of differentiated items, things, all separate and diverse. Your knowledge is that of lists, objects, items, etc.
    Hence this knowledge is then bondage or jñānaṁ bandhaḥ, that was called out in the śivasūtra-s mentioned in the last post.

    When your range of knowledge includes the field of your own Being, then all that you view is non-differentiated and you see the fullness of everything ( purṇa). So it is by opening ( re-recognizing) one’s own Being that one is re-established in this wholeness.

    This is how we address what kṛṣṇa-jī said, surely (hi) there is nothing (na) that exists (vidyte) in this world (iha) that is so purifying (pavitra) like (sadṛśa) knowledge (jñāna). Let me explain.

    Next Step - purity
    I need to click down one more level to explain this notion of purity. All of creation is explained by the tattva-s ( that-ness) that makes up all and every thing. In kaśmir śaivism there are 36 tattva-s.
    In the sāṁkhya view there are 25 tattva-s called out . I mention this because the sāṁkhya view is known and accepted in vedānta. Within these 36 tattva-s and 25 tattva-s repectively they are divided for our comprehension into pure and impure. Within the 36 tattva-s of kaśmir śaivism the first five are considered pure and the remaining 31 are considered impure.
    Just for an example the first 2 are śiva and śakti and I will leave the other 3 for another time. Within the sāṁkhya school of 25 tattva-s the 1st one , puruṣa, is pure (śuddha) , and the remaining 24 are impure (aśuddha).
    What does this pure and impurity mean ? The pure notion is perfectly stainless, without a blemish, perfect Being. When this Being chooses to express itself into creation as ‘the many’, as diversity, it then co-mingles with the tattva-s ( 31 in kaśmir śaivism, 24 in the sāṁkhya school). It is now an admixture with other tattva-s such as the elements you are aware of e.g. earth, air, water, space, fire. Other tattva-s such as smell, taste, touch; mind, intellect, etc.
    One would be mistaken to take impure (aśuddha) as ‘bad’. It simply means in this context ‘comingled’.

    Connecting the dots
    So, here is the connection point: When one lives in ignorance ( some like to call ajñāna , others call avidyā) their field of experience resides only within the 31 tattva-s or 24 tattva-s mentioned. They are without the ‘pure’ experience of their own Self. Hence they live in a differented world where each tattva is ‘indivualized’ and separated.
    Yet when one is purified by realizing their essential Being, then all the tattva-s are nothing more then the expansion of Being, of the Supreme ( puruṣa for sāṁkhya school and śiva for the kaśmir śaivism view). That is:
    • in ignorance there is only diversity and separateness ;
    • In Self-realization¹ there is unity in diversity and no separateness. That is , one sees the commonality of all as the expression of Being.
    One last notion
    We have come a long way on this matter… let me offer this from the garuḍa purāṇa (2.47.52) that also brings in pure and impure, as it infers knowledge of Self as the purifier:
    apavitraḥ pavitrau vā
    sarvāvastām gataupi vā |
    yaḥ smarat pundarīkākśam
    sa bhāhyābhyantaraḥ suciḥ ||

    This sūkta says ( in brief)
    Whether one is pure or impure, whether all places are permeated by purity or impurity, whoever opens himself to the Lotus Eyed One gains inner and outer purity.

    In a nut shell, the one that opens him/her self - moves to, puts oneself in contact with, remembers, experiences or 'sees' (sūci) or knows the Lotus-eyed One (puṇḍarīka) , then this person will gain inner and outer purity i.e. bhā or luster, light, will manifest within this person. This 'person' that opens one’s self to this condition is the adhvanīya , a traveler, the person on the path.

    This Lotus-eyed One (puṇḍarīka) is viṣṇu or śiva. Puṇḍarīka is a lotus-flower, esp. a white lotus expressive of beauty; and we know 'eyed' is akṣa. So Pundarīkākśa the white-lotus (puṇḍarīka) + eyed (akṣa अक्ष) is the puṇḍa पुण्ड , the mark or a sign of viṣṇu or śiva.

    So, we need one more step to get to the fullness of this sūkta has to offer. This is considered saṁketa - a hint, a indication, a symbol. But of what? Pundarīkākśa and its 'mark' is pure awareness, of unboundedness, of būmān - the fullness of Being, SELF. It is by opening oneself to the fullness of pure awareness that one gains inner and outer purity. This is anugraha (grace, favor) that is offered (su - to grant or bestow) by pundarīkākśa, allowing this to manifest in one's daily life.
    Hence the profound statement of kṛṣṇa-jī holds true and is cooberated no less by texts found in several schools of thought.

    iti śivaṁ

    words
    • Self realization = ātmasamarpaṇaṃ or Self-surrender
      • ātmasamarpaṇaṃ = ātma+samarpaṇaṃ
        • ātma - Self
        • samarpaṇaṃ - handing completely over , consigning , presenting , imparting , bestowing
    Last edited by yajvan; 26 October 2014 at 01:00 PM.
    यतस्त्वं शिवसमोऽसि
    yatastvaṁ śivasamo'si
    because you are identical with śiva

    _

  5. #5
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    Re: purifying knowledge...

    Namaste Yajvan ji

    In your posts fonts used to type transliterared Sanskrit words do not render correctly in all mobile based light browsers like opera mini. They appear as black diamonds making it difficult to understand. If possible can you use generic fonts.

    Thanks ....
    Anirudh...

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    Re: purifying knowledge...

    Namaste

    I do not generally criticize anyone on their chosen spritual path unless it goes against another persons freedom to express his chosen path.

    I do not possess the necessary information to either understand or to criticize the information provided by you. But with what ever the little information gained in my short stint at HDF, fully convinced to say that few posts of yours cross the borders of healthy debate.

    As much Advaita is not the only truth other philosophies are also not the ONLY available truth.

    I am not criticizing the information that is provided nor the provider, but the tone in which it is been presented and also in certain areas where it is purely unwarranted need to be polished.

    Smaranam has the right to walk or dance along with Krishna and you have the right to dissolve or sink with Krishna.

    The same way I have the right to live in bondage because what you perceive as danger or pride is my humble way to interact with the one I love.

    Quote Originally Posted by silence_speaks View Post
    Namasthe !



    It is not Knowledge itself, but the pride in knowledge that is bondage. In addition, shastra vasanas of three types are dangerous:

    paaThavyasanam : mania for reciting the vedas.
    Saastravyasanam - Mania for study of scriptures other than Vedanta.
    Anushthaanavyasanam - mania for performance of rituals.

    These do have an indirect role in gaining self knowledge but they become obstructions, the movement they themselves assume the dimention of a goal.

    Love!
    Silence
    Anirudh...

  7. #7
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    Re: purifying knowledge...

    hariḥ oṁ
    ~~~~~~
    namasté

    Quote Originally Posted by Anirudh View Post
    Namaste Yajvan ji

    In your posts fonts used to type transliterared Sanskrit words do not render correctly in all mobile based light browsers like opera mini. They appear as black diamonds making it difficult to understand. If possible can you use generic fonts.

    Thanks ....
    I have tried various fonts... I see the same diamonds ( on an iPAD). But they occur ONLY after the post has been edited. Why ? I do not know. But let's not pursue this on this string, as I for one cannot solve this; I have tried different fonts. Perhaps satay our admin will read this and see if he has the same issues.

    regards and thank you,

    iti śivaṁ
    यतस्त्वं शिवसमोऽसि
    yatastvaṁ śivasamo'si
    because you are identical with śiva

    _

  8. #8
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    Re: purifying knowledge...

    hariḥ oṁ
    ~~~~~~
    namaste

    Let me offer this from the garuḍa purāṇa (2.47.52) that also brings in pure and impure, as it infers knowledge of Self as the purifier:
    apavitraḥ pavitrau vā
    sarvāvastām gataupi vā |
    yaḥ smarat pundarīkākśam
    sa bhāhyābhyantaraḥ suciḥ ||

    This sūkta says ( in brief)
    Whether one is pure or impure, whether all places are permeated by purity or impurity, whoever opens himself to the Lotus Eyed One gains inner and outer purity
    So, now an interesting observation. When one is this paśu (domesticated animal), some call the sakala¹, and is pursuing their unfoldment ( or re-recognition) of Self, Being, or wholeness, the words above make sense to them. It resonates as a truth.
    Yet upon arrival to this wholeness (pūra) the following truth offered by kṣemarāja¹ comes to the forefront of one’s experience:

    vedakaṁ vedyamekaṁ tu tattvaṁ nāstyaśucistataḥ||

    This says that the knower (Being/Self) and knowable ( i.e. the world/universe) are certainly one true principle (tattva)and therefore ( or for that reason) there is nothing that is impure or aśuciḥ.


    The point is the garuḍa purāṇa says even if you think there is pure or impure once you have re-established your Self as your frame of reference, then you come to recognize what kṣemarāja is telling us - you and all this has been pure from the beginning.

    Recall pure is another term for wholeness and fullness of Being and has nothing to do with any moral questions one might suggest of impurity of social norms, of ‘sin’ , of bad behavior. You see, these words are no longer for those climbing out of the mud. These words are for the ears of the ones that wish to lift-up their self with their SELF ( as mentioned by kṛṣṇa-jī in the bhāgavad gīta).

    Q: But yajvan, why do you mention those climbing out of the mud ? Is that not condescending ?

    A: ‘Mud’ is the term used to suggest those (individuals) where the impure¹ ( diversity, multiplicity, mundane life) is in the forefront of their awareness, where the 31 tattvas ( see the posts above) have seemingly taken complete hold of this person, and the wholeness of Being has not even been considered.

    iti śivaṁ

    words​
    • the sakala is the one affected by the elements of the world; yet this word also has a deeper meaning: sa + kalā or consisting of parts , suggesting differentiated awareness.
    • Impure – we could also use the term apūrṇakhyāti (a+ pūrṇa + khyāti):
      • a = not, no, the opposite of
      • pūrṇa = fullness, wholeness
      • khyāti = perception , knowledge ; it also means ' declaration' , 'assertion'.
    • kṣemarāja was the disciple of abhinavagupta; kṣemarāja is known for is commentary called śivasūtravimarśinī.
    iti śivaṁ
    Last edited by yajvan; 11 November 2014 at 07:42 PM.
    यतस्त्वं शिवसमोऽसि
    yatastvaṁ śivasamo'si
    because you are identical with śiva

    _

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