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Thread: Modern study of Upaniṣads?

  1. #11
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    Re: Modern study of Upaniṣads?

    Namaste Indraneela and all,

    Most of things what MH has suggested has grown by itself (Swayambhu) in the fertile minds of MH. So, please take it with a pinch of salt.

    Your question was on Upanishads ... are they ignored by the Hindus ? First of all, there is absolutely no ban on any person to study Vedas in today's Hindu society. In Vedic times, the Veda-sutras have been composed by many non-Brahmins even the so-called Sudra-Rishis. I should not remind that Maharishi VyAs who has written many authoritative scriptures was a Sudra in strict sense. Again, all the six schools of Vedanta who actually spent considerable time to learn the Upanishads' message accepted people from all castes without any hitch, as far as I know. The Arya Samaj who goes purely by the Vedas and doesn't believe in the authority of any scripture other than the Vedas doesn't believe in caste-structure at all ! So, MH's attempt can be counted only as an attempt to malign the Hindus in general. His generalisation and confidence in writing a cooked up and twisted material as the fact is appalling ! I don't know what purpose is served by doing this.

    Actually, the message of the Upanishads is not simple to understand. This is clear from the fact that in Hindu Dharma there are Six different schools who have their own interpretation of the Upanishads or the Vedanta. The Reality which can be described only by negation is not everyone's cup of tea. More so, the proclamation of the Vedanta like "Aham BrahmAsmi", "TatTvamasi" etc. was considered not appropriate for the common people. The Upanishads themselves state that imparting the knowledge of the Vedanta to all and sudry will harm the people who are not spiritually ready. That is why this knowledge was not made free for everyone.

    To keep the people on the path of righteousness things had to be told in very simple language which was greatly served by the Itihasas and the Puranas. Even the great saints of the Bhakti Kaal (the period of Bhakti) chose to spread the spirituality among common men through telling stories from the Ramayana and the Mahabharata. It was easy for common men to go to temples and worship the deity in form for their worldly desires to fulfill than to discuss on the difficult subjects on Brahman, the characteristics of the soul, Universe and Brahman etc.

    Slowly, this became the character of the Hindu family. You do what you learn from your father/mother/elders. You see that the spirituality ends with worshiping some forms of God/ fasting on some days / observing some rituals etc. The Brahmin who does all the Pooja for you in the temples and in your house on various occasions himself has never read Upanishads ... then why the house-holder would do it. That is how this study was neglected even by the people of intellect.

    I hope it answers your question.

    OM
    "Om Namo Bhagvate Vaasudevaye"

  2. #12
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    Re: Modern study of Upaniṣads?

    Quote Originally Posted by devotee View Post
    The Arya Samaj who goes purely by the Vedas and doesn't believe in the authority of any scripture other than the Vedas doesn't believe in caste-structure at all !
    OM
    I was not talking about "Arya samaj" or the "Self realization fellowship " or "Ramakrishna Math" and other modern Neo Hindu Movements but about traditional vedic Religion and the history of India.

    To pretend that traditional vedic study is and was in the past equally open for all races communities and gender deserves no comment.

    Regarding the evaluation of the historical revisionist trends in modern neo-hinduism and its relation to Colonialism and Islam, the series of blog posts, with their focus on Arya Samaj mentioned by Sahasranama in this posting
    http://www.hindudharmaforums.com/sho...9&postcount=39
    look promising.
    Last edited by MahaHrada; 08 February 2012 at 05:09 AM.

  3. #13
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    Re: Modern study of Upaniṣads?

    Quote Originally Posted by devotee View Post
    Namaste Indraneela and all,

    Most of things what MH has suggested has grown by itself (Swayambhu) in the fertile minds of MH. So, please take it with a pinch of salt.

    OM
    Mahahrada means a great ocean, we only have to churn it to get amrita, any salt that comes out of it will be taken by Svayambhu (shiva).

  4. #14
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    Re: Modern study of Upaniṣads?

    Quote Originally Posted by MahaHrada View Post
    I was not talking about "Arya samaj" or the "Self realization fellowship " or "Ramakrishna Math" and other modern Neo Hindu Movements but about traditional vedic Religion and the history of India.

    To pretend that traditional vedic study is and was in the past equally open for all races communities and gender deserves no comment.

    Regarding the evaluation of the historical revisionist trends in modern neo-hinduism and its relation to Colonialism and Islam, the series of blog posts, with their focus on Arya Samaj mentioned by Sahasranama in this posting
    http://www.hindudharmaforums.com/sho...9&postcount=39
    look promising.
    Dear MH,

    You are not born in a traditional Hindu family living in India, therefore, you should be cautious in claiming something disputable about Hindu society in general. All that you speak is based on some dubious writings that you have read somewhere or you have gone by the popular notion about the Hindus and India. Therefore, please don't go on asserting on issues which you don't know correctly.

    You are in habit of using "neo-Hindu organisation" term very casually. You should better stop that. The Vedas and Vedanta were studied by the different schools and sects alone and never by the common masses & that includes even the Brahmins. Arya SamAj, Ramkrishna Mission are one of those groups who have studied these scriptures very well. And for your kind information, the Hindu society doesn't consider them separate from Hindu society. In a family there may be some members who may be members of Arya SamAj, Ramkrishna Mission etc. and there may be some members who are not. We can't say that these organisations are not part of the Hindu society.

    Casteism is a hot and very controversial topic for the Hindus. You have no idea what you are stirring up. You better check many threads on this forum devoted to this issue.

    OM
    "Om Namo Bhagvate Vaasudevaye"

  5. #15
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    Re: Modern study of Upaniṣads?

    Quote Originally Posted by Sahasranama View Post
    Mahahrada means a great ocean, we only have to churn it to get amrita, any salt that comes out of it will be taken by Svayambhu (shiva).
    Thanks for the flowers add a drop of milk against the poison bite

  6. #16
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    Re: Modern study of Upaniṣads?

    Quote Originally Posted by devotee View Post
    Dear MH,

    You are not born in a traditional Hindu family living in India, therefore, you should be cautious in claiming something disputable about Hindu society in general. All that you speak is based on some dubious writings that you have read somewhere or you have gone by the popular notion about the Hindus and India. Therefore, please don't go on asserting on issues which you don't know correctly.

    You are in habit of using "neo-Hindu organisation" term very casually. You should better stop that. The Vedas and Vedanta were studied by the different schools and sects alone and never by the common masses & that includes even the Brahmins. Arya SamAj, Ramkrishna Mission are one of those groups who have studied these scriptures very well. And for your kind information, the Hindu society doesn't consider them separate from Hindu society. In a family there may be some members who may be members of Arya SamAj, Ramkrishna Mission etc. and there may be some members who are not. We can't say that these organisations are not part of the Hindu society.

    Casteism is a hot and very controversial topic for the Hindus. You have no idea what you are stirring up. You better check many threads on this forum devoted to this issue.

    OM
    Chuang Tzu and Hui Tzu had strolled on to the bridge over the Hao, when the former observed, 'See how the minnows are darting about! That is the pleasure of fishes.'
    'You not being a fish yourself', said Hui Tzu, 'how can you possibly know in what consists the pleasure of fishes'?
    'And you not being I', retorted Chuang Tzu, 'how can you know that I do not know'?
    'If I, not being you, cannot know what you know', urged Hui Tzu, 'it follows that you, not being a fish, cannot know in what consists the pleasure of fishes'.
    'Let us go back', said Chuang Tzu, 'to your original question. You asked me how I knew in what consists the pleasure of fishes. Your very question shows that you knew I knew. I knew it by standing on this bridge at the hao.

    Last edited by MahaHrada; 08 February 2012 at 09:50 AM.

  7. #17
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    Re: Modern study of Upaniṣads?

    Namaste,

    I apologize for butting into this discussion among heavyweights with my misplaced comments.

    Pranam.

  8. #18
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    Re: Modern study of Upaniṣads?

    hari o
    ~~~~~~

    namasté

    devotee writes,
    You are not born in a traditional Hindu family living in India, therefore, you should be cautious in claiming something disputable about Hindu society in general
    These are wise words for all of us on HDF... To talk of the culture without living there and breathing in the air leaves one less knowledgable. The same goes for knowledge. Reading it vs. being taught by the wise is a different experience all together ( this has been my personal experience). So, what does one do ? The best we can , we continue to move forward.

    believer writes,
    I apologize for butting into this discussion among heavyweights with my misplaced comments
    Your observations allow more knowledge to come out and this is always good.

    praṇām
    यतसà¥à¤¤à¥à¤µà¤‚ शिवसमोऽसि
    yatastvaṠśivasamo'si
    because you are identical with śiva

    _

  9. #19
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    Re: Modern study of Upaniṣads?

    I am not talking about my biography authority or qualifications, on the internet but i already answered "d....s" accusations in a thread once sometime ago, when he accused me of not having first hand experience of the nepali culture, but before other spiteful people come crawling out of the woodwork, i repeat once more, i have first hand experience of hindu society and culture. It is to your own disadvantage to underestimate my knowledge and qualifications it does not affect me.

  10. #20

    Re: Modern study of Upaniṣads?

    Swami Dayananda Saraswathi (not the Arya Samaj founder) in his bio states that when he was growing up in 1930s in an orthodox brahmin family in a small village near Tanjore no one around him knew anything about Upanishads! This suggests that knowledge of Upanishads was uncommon even among brahmins.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dayanan...inmaya_Mission)

    Study of Vedanta by the masses is a recent phenomena. This is thanks to a lot of Vedantins including the neo-Vedantins ofcourse. For gaining scriptural knowledge the best accepted procedure of studying Vedanta is to read the Bhagavad Gita, select Upanishads, and Brahmasutras in that order. Ideally it should be studied under a traditional Guru (not neo-Vedantin) or at the very least listen to his/her CDs of discourses and satsangs. There should be opportunity to ask questions.

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