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Thread: difference b/w hinduism and sanatan dharma

  1. #11
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    Re: difference b/w hinduism and sanatan dharma

    Namaste
    Quote Originally Posted by hinduism♥krishna View Post

    Two quotes of ShriKrishna are sufficient

    "Those that constantly chant the four Vedas and read other religious works and yet fail to realize “I am that Brahman”, they are like the spoons that are used for every cooking operation, but yet remain without a single taste of the foods they prepare."


    "As an hungry person imply wastes his energy in vain when he strikes the air with blows for food, so also a reader of the Vedas and others Sastras simply wastes his time and energy, if, not withstanding his study, he fails to realize that “I am Brahman”."

    And plus my SIGNATURE which is the Mahavakya of Bhagavata Purana defeating misunderstandings
    Shuka says to Parikshita:

    " You are That Brahman. You are that Supreme Absolute abode .. You should always meditate like this. Thus you'll surely know your Infinite Self " ( BP 12.5.11 )

    Thank you for this enlightening verses. They are treasure and the true beauty of Vedic knowledge!
    ... but did you properly understand their meaning? You know, I really doubt that you understand them.
    Here I am going to explain the meaning of these verses from the Vaishnava point of view which is quite appropriate, because for example a verse from your signature is located in the Srimad Bhagavatam which is the most famous and most important of all Vaishnava Puranas:

    1) 1st and 2nd verse about "yet fail to realize 'I am that Brahman'”:

    Surely that a Vaishnava devotee very well knows that Lord Krishna as the Supreme Person and God (deva) is Brahman. We are sure that this is so because we know from many verses in the scriptures that a Vaishnava devotee who knows the Lord as Person and Brahman (Person = Brahman, deva = Brahman ) becomes a liberated soul (mukta soul) and goes to the world of Vaikuntha which is a personal residence of this Lord Krishna, the world which has been described as the supreme abode of Lord Vishnu viṣṇoḥ paramaṃ padam, the world of Brahman brahmalokam (brahma-lokam) or eternal world of Brahman brahmalokaḥ sanātanaḥ, the world of immortality lokamamṛtaṃ (lokam-amṛtam), this abode is said to be eternal sthānaḿ prāpsyasi śāśvatam, is said to be eternal and imperishable (avyayam "imperishable" means "indestructible" or "impossible to destroy" ) śāśvataḿ padam avyayam, ... ... ... and when devotee finally reaches this world of Brahman, ie Lord Krishna, he as a liberated soul stays there eternally to live with many other liberated souls serving the Lord. All this is stated in both Smriti and Shruti scriptures.
    So, who says that a devotee does not know that Lord Krishna is Brahman? Someone who does not know that Lord Krishna is Brahman can not even achieve mukti!, not to mention that he can not achieve Lord Krishna (Vishnu) in Vaikuntha.


    2) the verse from your signature, Bhagavatam 12.5.11:

    Maybe you have not noticed, but in this verse is said "You should always meditate like this".
    It's just a type of meditation. This does not mean that a devotee is the Supreme. It just means that he should meditate in this way.
    Individuality of the devotee (jiva soul) remains preserved eternally, and also individuality of the Lord (Brahman or Parabrahman, Bhagavan, deva) remains preserved eternally as stated in both Smriti and Shruti scriptures.
    A devotee stays to be individual eternally in Vaikuntha, and Lord Krishna (Vishnu) also stays to be individual eternally in Vaikuntha, and Vaikuntha stays to exist eternally also. This is a state of liberation (mukti) which is eternal also.


    regards

  2. #12

    Re: difference b/w hinduism and sanatan dharma

    True mode of Vishnu worship is dvaita in essence. More than the essence of worship, in fact it is the essence and nature of Vishnu Himself that makes this mode true.

    On the other hand, the true mode of Bramha worship is advaitic in essence, much like (but not equal to) an advanced Shiva worship.

    Saying that Vishnu's essence is Brahma, or Brahma's essence is Vishnu - is an insult to both Brahma and Vishnu, in addition to being an outrage against Sanskrit.

    This problem is the single most deepest problem afflicting Dharma (having huge bearing over its future), and I don't expect it to go away so easily, so that finally Advaitins worship Brahma and Vaishnava-s worship Vishnu, alone. No mix up.

    I can wait, perhaps.
    Things to remember:

    1. Life = yajña
    2. Depth of Āstika knowledge is directly proportional
    to the richness of Sanskrit it is written in
    3. Āstika = Bhārata ("east") / Ārya ("west")
    4. Varṇa = tripartite division of Vedic polity
    5. r = c. x²
    where,
    r = realisation
    constant c = intelligence
    variable x = bhakti

  3. #13
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    Re: difference b/w hinduism and sanatan dharma

    Quote Originally Posted by parteeksharma View Post
    namaste

    recently i was searching for videos on Hinduism and other religions,their similarities and differences.In a particular video a non-Hindu preacher trying to convince people to convert to his religion questioned a Hindu that "what is your religion" he answered "i am a hindu".
    To this the preacher replied that hindu or hinduism is no religion at all it is just a geographical categorization.
    So my basic question is that is it true?
    if yes then why major portion of "hindu" people say they are hindu and if not than what is the difference in santan dharam and hinduism ?


    har har mahadev !!
    Namaste Prateek,

    Hinduism is a religion. It is based on truth of Vedas and while it is not a marketable product like some other religions it certainly has qualities to make it count as religion.


    Sanatan Dharm could be described as set of stated or unstated laws which govern the universe and which were revealed through Vedas. Sanatan Dharm could also be described as collection of various kinds of philosophies regarding God and Soul which are based on different interpretations of Vedas. Sanatam Dharm includes revelation of various philosophies such as Monism (Shaivism), Pantheism (Shaktism), Monotheism ( Vaishnavism), Sankhya (non-materialistic atheism), Mimamsa (Vedic ritualism) and many more. Important thing to note is that Sanatan Dharm has no founder unlike other religions which were founded by a prophet or a supposedly realized philosopher.

    Now on to Hinduism. Hinduism primarily evolved as a defense mechanism against brutal and inhuman invasion of Indian Sub-continent by demonic forces ( melechas called jihadis/ missionaries). All the people whose ways of life was based on Vedas and whose spiritual philosophies were based on Vedas or other books based on Vedas started identifying themselves as Hindus and thus grew Hinduism. Important point of difference between Hinduism and other religion is that other religions started as one and got divided into many sects. For ex - Islam got divided into Sunni, Siya, Ahemdiya etc. Buddhism got divided into mahayana, Thervada, Vajrayana etc. But Hinduism started from many different sects (shaiva, Shakta, Vaishnava, Smartha etc) and unified into one with respect and tolerance in Hindus for each other's religious differences. That is the most beautiful aspect of Hinduism. So even though Hinduism was initially formed in isolated geographic areas such as India and South East Asia and Bali (Indonesia) independent of each other, we can say that it is ulitmately one religion based on identification with belief in supremacy of Vedas or related books.
    When the light has risen, there is no day, no night, neither existence nor non-existence; Siva alone is there. That is the eternal, the adorable light of Savitri, - and the ancient wisdom proceeded thence (Svetasvatara Upanishad IV-18). :)

  4. #14
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    Re: difference b/w hinduism and sanatan dharma

    Quote Originally Posted by brahma jijnasa View Post
    Namaste Surely that a Vaishnava devotee very well knows that Lord Krishna as the Supreme Person and God (deva) is Brahman. We are sure that this is so because we know from many verses in the scriptures that a Vaishnava devotee who knows the Lord as Person and Brahman (Person = Brahman, deva = Brahman ) becomes a liberated soul (mukta soul)


    Who denies Krishna is Purushottam? And person doesn't necessarily mean Person with form. There is a Purusha Word. Purusha means the soul entered in the Pakriti. Shri Krishna has entered in the world as Vishwatma and in the Jiva as Atma( Anatma). And about who realises the Brahman. Krishna has declared in Bhagavata & Bhagavad gita, " Those who see one Atma in all Jivas and see all jivas in Atma and Atma in all jivas, he alone gets liberated.

    "Those who considers multiplicity and dependency of soul and those who don’t follow detachment , they get only sorrow . [ BG 11.10.32]

    Krishna says :

    " ज्ञानविज्ञान संयुक्तः आत्मभुतः शरीरनाम आत्मानुभवतुष्टमा नान्तारायै..... ( BP 11.7.10)

    " When you will thus be enriched by analytical knowledge as well as self knowledge and find yourself as the Atman of all the beings who are having body and when you will be thus pleased with the experience of the all-pervading atma, you will not be thwarted by any hindrances. "


    Krishna says :

    " There is multiplicity of atma so long as there is inequality among the three Gunas and while this multiplicity of atma doesn't get vanished from the mind , the Jeeva remains in bondage forever . " [ bhagavata purana 11.10.32 ]

    These all means those who don't see one atma which is pervading everywhere and believes in multiplicity of Atma, remain in Bondage forever.

    and goes to the world of Vaikuntha which is a personal residence of this Lord Krishna, the world which has been described as the supreme abode of Lord Vishnu viṣṇoḥ paramaṃ padam, the world of Brahman brahmalokam (brahma-lokam) or eternal world of Brahman brahmalokaḥ sanātanaḥ, the world of immortality lokamamṛtaṃ (lokam-amṛtam), this abode is said to be eternal sthānaḿ prāpsyasi śāśvatam, is said to be eternal and imperishable (avyayam "imperishable" means "indestructible" or "impossible to destroy" )
    Not all devotess go to Vaikuntha. After total dissolution of universe where there is only Brahman, Vaikuntha-Devotess attain complete realisation of self. The self becomes Brahman itself. And Those who are Dnyani devotess directly attains Brahman where is no any duality. There is full realisation of self . So it is the highest Mukti and greater than Salokata Mukti. When devotee attains such sayujya mukti, all four muktis serve him. Because when devotee attains Sayujyata, he has already attained Salokata as he himself becomes everything including vaikuntha. It is the essential nature of Brahman , nowhere is duality. Moreover, In Bhagavad Gita , Krishna has declared that unmanifested is his real Abode. And Vaikuntha is no doubt unmanifested. In bhagavad Gita & Bhagavata Purana too, Krishna doesn't even talk on Vaikuntha. Bhagavata Purana declares that in reality the self alone is the supreme abode of Vishnu.


    So, who says that a devotee does not know that Lord Krishna is Brahman?
    There are two types of Bhaktas. One devotee doesn't know the real nature of omnipresent Brahman. He thinks that what he sees is the real nature of krishna. He thinks that krishna has a form. And other devotee sees krishna as omnipresent Brahman free from duality. He knows that this krishna is none other than his Atma, which is hidden in the heart. He sees Brahman everywhere. He doesn't see any duality anywhere.

    not to mention that he can not achieve Lord Krishna (Vishnu) in Vaikuntha.
    Yes, all devotees don't attain Vaikuntha only . Some exalted devotees get established in Brahman. They becomes Parabrahman themselves. "Who is the knower of Brahman becomes Brahman themselves."


    Maybe you have not noticed, but in this verse is said "You should always meditate like this".
    It's just a type of meditation. This does not mean that a devotee is the Supreme. It just means that he should meditate in this way.
    So absurd !

    Meditation is called Chintana. Chintana is one of the nine types of bhakti. Below is the accurate translation:

    अहं ब्रह्म परं धाम ब्रह्माहं परमं पदम् ।
    एवं समीक्ष्य चात्मानं आत्मन्याधाय निष्कले


    अहं - I , ब्रह्म - bramhan , परं - absolute , ब्रह्माहं - I am bramhan , परमं पदम् -absolute abode , एवं - in this way , समीक्ष्य - with caution , चात्मानं - self , आत्मन्याधाय - FIX IN ATMA , निष्कले - undivided

    .
    " Dear Parikshita , by (thinking) " I'm that Brahaman. I'm that supreme absolute abode", you should fix your self in an undivided Atma ( having no duality)

    Individuality of the devotee (jiva soul) remains preserved eternally, and also individuality of the Lord (Brahman or Parabrahman, Bhagavan, deva) remains preserved eternally
    Impossible ! Individuality is not eternal. Beacuse Krishna refutes that.

    Krishna says:

    “satvam chabhijayed ………jivam vihay mam “ ( BP 11.25.35)

    Meaning: The Jeeva having been free from Gunas, and having dropped the idea that it is Jeeva, attains Me and thus Jeeva freed from its separateness and liberated from Gunas unites with Me. ( bramhan)

    Explaination: His individuality vanishes.Thus when the sense of separate existence of the soul is no more, the division between I am Body and I am Atman has no place. Then what remains? Only completeness, alone-ness which we call Brahman remains.

    So, krishna’s Dnyani devotees become Brahman, which is their original state. And this is the final conclusion of all Vedanta.

    Last edited by hinduism♥krishna; 09 May 2014 at 07:26 AM.
    Hari On!

  5. #15
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    Re: difference b/w hinduism and sanatan dharma

    Namaste HLK

    As I can see you have not figured out much of the Bhagavatam teachings.
    Your explanation is not in line with any of mainstream Vaishnava traditions, nor with Shankara's Advaita, and as I can see neither with the Bhagavatam itself.


    regards

  6. Re: difference b/w hinduism and sanatan dharma

    Dharma a focal righteous code of conduct for human be
    On which rests peace, harmony and coexistence of species,
    Dharma also the individual’s nature and his duties does be,
    Sanatan Dharma eternal nature of each spiritual being be.
    - 939 -
    Ten attributes of Dharma described in the Smriti be,
    Tolerance, forgiveness, self-control cleanliness and purity,
    Non-stealing, senses curb, wisdom, knowledge, honesty,
    Truth, calmness, equanimity or and non-anger surely.
    - 940 -
    Sanatan-Dharma eternal religion or real identity of soul be,
    The whole Vedic system arranges life to reawaken Self only,
    This is essential to reach spiritual dimension and be free,
    From rounds of rebirth and death in the material body.
    - 941 -
    Sanatan Dharma, means eternal or universal tradition clearly,
    It refers to dharma, a teaching or truth that exists in perpetuity,
    That all-encompasses the full spectrum of the human spirituality,
    Culminating in the direct realization of Divine as own Self truly.
    - 942 -
    It is not anchored to any single prophet, book or the history,
    Or revelation that ties down the expanse of its vision clearly,
    It subordinates no individual to an outer religious authority,
    But encourages all to discover the Divine within Self certainly.
    - 943 -
    Sanatan Dharma creates local forms great diversity,
    Sanatan Dharma never aim for universal uniformity,
    For Dharma not any set of fixed beliefs or practices be,
    But adaptation to living truth: changes form continually.
    - 944 -
    A great deal of local diversity as to how it presented be,
    This variety is perhaps greater than any other obviously,
    Yet through all of this diversity there remains a clear unity,
    Of the Sanatan thought and culture – the vital soul truly.
    - 945 -
    Vedic Dharma a treasury of right human conduct be,
    Discovered and practiced for many millennia clearly,
    Considered true for all times and places certainly,
    This is what makes it “Santana-Dharma” definitely.
    - 946 -
    Sanatan means timeless so it was ever certainly,
    And that which does uphold everything Dharma be,
    Dharma the Cosmic order in the Universe does be,
    That order manifested as everything in Universe be.
    - 947 -
    Which holds galaxies, stars, planets, life in harmony,
    The Cosmic order – Physical, Psychological, Spiritual be,
    All manifestations of Bhagwan - the Supreme Lord be,
    The Lord present in the form of the Cosmic order be.
    - 948 -
    The Lord pervades everything like the space certainly,
    Nothing separate from the space ever can exist surely,
    The Creator and created are non-separate positively,
    Like the spider and web or the dreamer and dream be.
    - 949 -
    Dharma a way, value and expression of life does be,
    With Vision and understanding of Universal God truly,
    In fact the Lord never separate from this Universe be ,
    And thoughts, words and deeds must show this clearly.
    - 950 -
    Vedic Dharma not based on a book or prophet only,
    It is pluralistic in approach to realize Truth ultimately,
    Each individual must strives for his or her own destiny,
    It is law of 'Karma’ – your action defines your destiny.
    - 951 -
    It a process of investigation, practice, purifying be,
    To realize, perceive and experience personally,
    Of our own link with God and spiritual identity,
    The freedom to decide what is best individually.
    - 952 -
    To strive for one’s own spiritual progress ultimately,
    With freedom of thought and interpretation fully,
    Of the same principle that others face definitely,
    This is why so much obvious diversity in thought be.
    - 953 -
    There are many paths to seek truth and God certainly,
    The Brahman - one God - supreme universal spirit be,
    Who has created various Brahmands most definitely,
    And each Bramand but a manifestation of Him be.
    - 954 -
    From Brahman manifestations of various deities be,
    Including of Brahma, Vishnu and Shiv - The Trinity,
    These manifestations in all the Bramands does be,
    Ever relentless but diligent performing their duties.
    - 955 -
    Brahma - principle of origin or creation clearly,
    Vishnu - principle of preservation or nurturing be,
    Shiv - principle of dissolution, destruction surely,
    Brahman - all universes – life, stones, space be.
    - 956 -
    Who sees all in Self, and Self in all - hates none clearly,
    We hate others if awareness is not there of this unity;
    Our awareness of Self in all life makes all dear truly,
    Spiritual goal of Dharma is to experience this Self fully.
    - 957 -
    The Atma so become the manifold universe certainly,
    If I hurt anyone in any form, I hurt myself in actuality;
    Therefore I must not hurt anyone in any form essentially,
    This realization, basis of ethics and Dharma - its root be.
    - 958 -
    The Self - the very core of every man's being does be,
    Different from body, senses, mind and vital energy;
    Man's ego is not this Self - ego an idea mental purely,
    Being mental, cannot be Self - Self of man is Atma only.
    - 959 -
    The foundation of Sanatan Dharma the Vedic teaching be,
    God (Brahman) and indwelling Self are one and same truly;
    Behind the psychophysical man - the Self, which divine be,
    Ayam Atma Brahma-"Self is Brahman" - its essence surely.
    - 960 -
    If Brahman an infinite ocean, then Atma a wave within be,
    Ocean not different from its waves, the waves as ocean be;
    They are but one and the same - very similar in actuality,
    So Brahman and Atma are one and the same in reality.
    - 961 -

    From 'Goals Of Life'

  7. #17
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    Re: difference b/w hinduism and sanatan dharma

    Quote Originally Posted by brahma jijnasa View Post
    [FONT="Times New Roman"][SIZE="2"]Namaste HLK

    As I can see you have not figured out much of the Bhagavatam teachings.
    It means Bhagavata Puruna's teachings which posit Advaita should be ignored as your sampradaya doesn't accept Advaita. However I believe in Bhagavata Puruna specially Uddhava Gita told by Shri Krishna. Uddhava Gita & Shukas final teachings is the conclusion of entire Bhagavata Purana. And I don't believe in Sampradaya.


    Your explanation is not in line with any of mainstream Vaishnava traditions, nor with Shankara's Advaita, and as I can see neither with the Bhagavatam itself.
    It seems you know advaita better than me. May I know how my views are not in line with Adi Shankara? Suprisingly nowadays non-advaitians decide what is Advaita and what is not. What they think is the advaita of Shankara and what advaitians follow is not the Advaita of adi shankara. As I know , Non-advaitians know only one thing about Advaita 'Jiva becomes God . Jiva looses individuality'. But no any advaitian says like this.

    The disciple chain succession of my guru Eknatha: Narayana-Brahmadeva- Atri- Datta- Janardana- Eknath. As far as I know, my views are in line with Krishna's words of Bhagavata Puruna. What Krishna and my guru teaches I believe in it. And as I can see from Bhagavata Purana, the philosophy taught by today's vaishnawa sampradayas doesn't match with Bhagavata Purana. I think not having Sampradaya is better than having pride in one's Sampradaya. Because Pride and insulting other sampradaya is the cause of downfall of Jiva in lower Yonis.

    The only thing is that you don't have any answer when Krishna says "jiva merges in me or such a realised person is complete Brahman like me or Jiva becomes Brahman." Can you tell me which Vaishnawa Sampradaya teaches to think self as Brahman or supreme abode or vishnu? As far as I know only Advaitian Vaishnawas practise that. Because Advaitian vaishnawa is in existent before Kaliyuga. It's the oldest Vsishnawism dating back to the creation of the universe when Vishnu taught 4 advaitik verses to Lord Brahma. And Because Shri Vishnu himself was Advaitian as we can conclude this from his teachings . He taught Advaita to Brahma as Chatushloki Bhagavata wherein he told Brahma to consider his self as this Brahman. Advatian vaishnawas don't consider any difference between Atma and Brahman who is Shri Vishnu. And that's what Bhagavata Purana teaches us. Worship the Atma as Vishnu or Brahman. This is the only way to attain Krishna. Only those devotess attain Krishna's soul who don't consider any duality anywhere. Because krishna himself is beyond duality. He sees Brahman everywhere. He gets established in that state where there is no duality and even non-duality and indeed this is the supreme abode of vishnu. Exalted devotees attain all four muktis as they attain Sayujyata itself which covers all other Muktis. Atma was already Brahman. But due to maya the person wrongly thinks that now this jiva has become Brahman. Vidya and Avidya are created by Krishna's Maya. So In real sense Atma has no any bondage or Moksha. Such topmost Advaita knowledge is explained by Shuka in Bhagavata12.5 and Krishna too explains this in Uddhava Gita
    Last edited by hinduism♥krishna; 10 May 2014 at 05:13 AM.

  8. Re: difference b/w hinduism and sanatan dharma

    namaste

    I want to thank all of the members who replied to the question.Your replies are really helpful in giving the insight of the meaning.

    It seems that almost everybody differs on some points,according to me which is good because more the questions clearer the meaning becomes but while reading the replies there are lot of concepts,verses and terms being used which i guess are necessarily in order to answer the question new to me.

    i am sure one cannot gain so much knowledge through any forum on internet.
    you guys must have studied a lot.reading your replies made me realize i actually don't know anything i haven't read any scripture except the Ramaya, my father has been reading ramayan since he was a kid in continuity,so some years back i also started reading it. That's it i dont know anything else,rest is all from tv shows. please suggest me where should i begin ,..i feel totally lost reading almost any thread on this forum this makes me sad but also motivates me a little that i need to learn a lot and i can have guidance from other members ,,.!!

    thanks
    har har mahadev !!

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    Re: difference b/w hinduism and sanatan dharma

    Namaste HLK

    As I can see you yourself and your gurus have quite different views from those represented by mainstream Vaishnava traditions and what I believe. Frankly I do not see any sense in your interpretation of Vedanta conclusions and Bhagavatam, and I do not see that your views can be properly explained and demonstrated by statements of the scriptures. Actually what I see in your views is a mixture of ideas which combines the mainstream Vaishnava views with some derivative of Shankara's Advaita and the confusion that arises from this.
    Being so I think it would be best if everyone of us stick to his own beliefs.


    regards

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    Re: difference b/w hinduism and sanatan dharma

    Namaste parteeksharma
    Quote Originally Posted by parteeksharma View Post
    i am sure one cannot gain so much knowledge through any forum on internet.
    you guys must have studied a lot.reading your replies made me realize i actually don't know anything i haven't read any scripture except the Ramaya, my father has been reading ramayan since he was a kid in continuity,so some years back i also started reading it. That's it i dont know anything else,rest is all from tv shows. please suggest me where should i begin ,..i feel totally lost reading almost any thread on this forum this makes me sad but also motivates me a little that i need to learn a lot and i can have guidance from other members ,,.!!

    thanks
    Here is my suggestion: http://hindudharmaforums.com/showthr...727#post115727


    regards

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