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Thread: Hate speech of Abrahamics

  1. #11
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    Re: Hate speech of Abrahamics

    Quote Originally Posted by Tikkun Olam View Post
    I've never shown any such thing. I keep on saying that I accept other beliefs. I really don't know why you keep on thinking I'm trying to force my beliefs on any one.

    But Sumeria being the first civilization is an archeological fact, not a religious one. The Vedas go back to around 1500-1000 BC. Sumeria goes to 5000-4500 BC. The Sumerians had the first writing system that we know of, so it's relevant what they had to say.
    Vannakkam: You really don't see the contradiction in these two paragraphs, do you? (not forcing my beliefs, then stating your beliefs)

    Aum Namasivaya

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    Re: Hate speech of Abrahamics

    Quote Originally Posted by wundermonk View Post
    Here is the text of Pope John Paul II's speech in New Delhi in 1999.



    Planting the cross in Europe, America and Africa involved huge gory bloodbaths. Do we want this in India also?

    Will the current Pope issue an apology for PJP2's hate speech in New Delhi of all places calling for the harvesting of Hindus?

    Why are the Abrahamics persisting with their falsehood when Adam/Eve never even existed?
    ******************************

    To answer your question, Wondermunk, No, the present Pope will NOT apologize for his predecessor's insulting remarks. When it comes to Christian chauvisnism, they are two-of-a kind. Never except a Christian to apologize for insulting other faiths.
    Om Radha Krishnaya Namaha

  3. #13

    Re: Hate speech of Abrahamics

    Quote Originally Posted by Eastern Mind View Post
    Vannakkam: You really don't see the contradiction in these two paragraphs, do you? (not forcing my beliefs, then stating your beliefs)

    Aum Namasivaya
    I didn't realize you thought the Vedas were older than the Sumerians. There's a difference between facts and beliefs. Beliefs are about spiritual things. But the archeological story says that India came out of Mesopotamia. I didn't realize Indians didn't accept that.

    If not, then why not?

  4. #14

    Re: Hate speech of Abrahamics

    Namasté Tikkun Olam,

    There was script on tablet looong ago
    . Maybe Moses brought back this technology from his wanderings to distant mountains???

    No wonder the debate is heated!

    Despite attempts to pervert the perception of history and create a new one (The Brits and Catholics). It has been realised that the suspected Aryan invasion of the Indus valley did not bring so much to India, Tablets depicting, a man, possibly a depiction of ziva in a yoga posture leads one to the conclusion that the vedic literature comes from verbal tradition here and not as proposed by the European philosophers who have wanted to claim it as their own (see Aryan invasion theory). Here is another interesting article.



    Indus Valley's Bronze Age civilisation 'had first sophisticated financial exchange system'

    The Indus Valley's Bronze Age civilisation may have developed the world's first sophisticated system of wage labour, financial exchange and measurement, a Canadian mathematician has discovered.



    By Dean Nelson in New Delhi

    6:00AM GMT 17 Nov 2009


    The Telegraph


    10 oct 2011
    The evidence is very strong, It would appear that The roots of agriculture "yoga" meaning yolk in Sanskrit. the yolk would have lead to two major developments. The harnessing of two or more cattle together, also to carry weights, thus also as a balance to weigh!

    The oldest evidence for the existence of weighing scales dates to c. 2400-1800 B.C.E. in the Indus River valley (modern-day Pakistan). Uniform, polished stone cubes discovered in early settlements were probably used as weight-setting stones in balance scales. Although the cubes bear no markings, their weights are multiples of a common denominator. The cubes are made of many different kinds of stones with varying densities. Clearly their weight, not their size or other characteristics, was a factor in sculpting these cubes.[2] In Egypt, scales can be traced to around 1878 B.C.E., but their usage probably extends much earlier. Carved stones bearing marks denoting weight and the Egyptian hieroglyphic symbol for gold have been discovered, which suggests that Egyptian merchants had been using an established system of weight measurement to catalog gold shipments and/or gold mine yields. Although no actual scales from this era have survived, many sets of weighing stones as well as murals depicting the use of balance scales suggest widespread usage
    This civilisation was interesting as evidence points to an egalitarian people who did not have any apparent separation of wealth and status; all houses were of the same size, there were no palaces.

    All interesting archaeology.



    Why does this all feel like a game of snakes and ladders?

    praNAma

    mana
    Last edited by Mana; 10 October 2011 at 11:09 AM.

  5. #15

    Re: Hate speech of Abrahamics

    Quote Originally Posted by Mana View Post
    Namast Tikkun Olam,

    There was script on tablet looong ago
    . Maybe Moses brought back this technology from his wanderings to distant mountains???

    praNAma

    mana
    No one claimed the Hebrews were the first to write. Usually that is given to the Sumerians with Cuneiform. And then later the Egyptians with hieroglyphs. When the Hebrews were working under the Pharaoh Amenemhet III they deviated from the pictorial writing system to the alphabetic one, with their first alphabetic writing found in the Sinai desert at this time, on rocks alongside Egyptian hieroglyphs.

    Those engravings are claimed to be about 4000 years old. Cuneiform is still 5000 years old, so if the Vedas do come from this time, they are younger than Sumerians. If you think the Vedas are older than that, then why?

  6. #16
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    Re: Hate speech of Abrahamics

    Sumerian is the first attested writing. Humans have been speaking, without writing, for 150,000 to 200,000 years. Humans colonized most of the world by about 12,000 BCE. Australian Aborigines arrived in Australia about 40,000 years ago and have an oral tradition going back that far, all of it spoken (or sung).

    There's no reason, then, to doubt that the Vedas were spoken (actually sung: there is some evidence that early Vedic Sanskrit was very musical and melodic) 10,000 years BCE or even earlier.

    It's possible they were transcribed only 3,500 years ago. But the history of the Vedas, and most oral traditions shows that great care was taken to preserve and pass them down without deviation. After all, this is what the rishis did for a living. There's no reason to believe the Vedas "appeared" only around 1,500 BCE.
    śivasya hridayam viṣṇur viṣṇoscha hridayam śivaḥ

  7. #17
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    Re: Hate speech of Abrahamics

    So, India came out of Mesopotamia ? Who wrote this history ... of course the westerners, right ?

    Mesopotamia is dated between 3500 to 530 BCE. According to recent study made in Mehragarh of Indus Valley Civilisation, it dated 7000 BCE (Aceramic Neolithic). However, these are just estimates based on Carbon dating of things which were found intact ... but it doesn't prove that it can't be even older !

    Again invention of writing has nothing to do with the age of the Vedas as the Vedas were originally passed on orally to the students by the seers. Again, if you see the markings on the seals of Indus valley civilisation, it can be very well understood that the people at time could very well read and write ... but see the arrogance of your westerner "scholar" who gave their fatwa that it was zero chance that they were literate ! After all, how these people could digest that any other civilisation was more knowledgeable than theirs. They have to somehow prove that all knowledge came from the WEST ! ... and that is how the idea of Aryan Invasion Theory was sold shamelessly which has now been thoroughly rejected.

    OM
    "Om Namo Bhagvate Vaasudevaye"

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    Re: Hate speech of Abrahamics

    Sanatana Dharma is the oldest. This is not based on a dogma or sect. Sanatana Dharma is not a sect, religion, or any thing that causes splitting up into divisions of believers and heretics. The path of many forms of worship, meditation, and so on in India arose out of the hunter gatherers who later birthed the way of life of the Dharma. For the sake of argument if we want to say Sumeria was the oldest, that still would not prove anything concerning jewish knowledge. Sumerians were pagans, Adamu were slaves of their gods who served their gods. The story of Noah comes from the Epic of Gilgamesh. The early jews worshipped God alongside the Goddess Asherah. The garden of Eden are from traditions that are as pagan as pagan can get. So where does one get the idea that Judaic knowledge is really something we should glorify? It is nothing but a knock off of existing pagan cultures that existed. The same is obvious with Christians and the Jesus knock off of multiple sacrificial deities of the pagans.

    Why follow a path that comes from paganism and yet claims paganism is evil? The only reason I can find is human arrogance.

    Om Namah Shivaya

  9. #19

    Re: Hate speech of Abrahamics

    Quote Originally Posted by Tikkun Olam View Post
    Those engravings are claimed to be about 4000 years old. Cuneiform is still 5000 years old, so if the Vedas do come from this time, they are younger than Sumerians. If you think the Vedas are older than that, then why?
    Namast Tikkun Olam

    It says here 3Oth century BCE

    My interest is in the evolution of philosophy and Doctrine, I believe that Human intelligence is delivered by insight from God, that it is fractal by nature so it happens spontaneously and repetitively over distance. Ie fire is harnessed at around the same time at several locations. It is due to the nature of God that this occurs.

    The harnessing of the Fire of kundalini is another story!

    praNAma

    mana

  10. #20

    Re: Hate speech of Abrahamics

    Quote Originally Posted by Tikkun Olam View Post
    If you think the Vedas are older than that, then why?
    Namasté Tikkun Olam

    Do you have any notion as to transcendental knowledge?
    Time is not linear, can you see this?

    See ΔT just as a starting point.

    praNAma

    mana

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