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Thread: Sex abstinence?

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    Sex abstinence?

    How do Advaitas see sex? Do they believe in complete abstinence like ISKCON? Are they open to having sex in a tantric practice?

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    Re: Sex abstinence?

    Quote Originally Posted by Tirisilex View Post
    How do Advaitas see sex? Do they believe in complete abstinence like ISKCON? Are they open to having sex in a tantric practice?
    uhh.. what is an 'Advaita' anyway? A person who follows the Advaita darshana is referred to as an Advaitin!

    Regarding sex, who cares? It is like asking CEOs of the Fortune 500 companies what they think of chocolate.

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    Re: Sex abstinence?

    As far as i know,one should not even think about sex in the brahmacharya ashram.Not as something filthy,but as 'this leads me nowhere'.One can have sex after marriage,in the grihasthaashram.There are some rules,though.

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    Re: Sex abstinence?

    an advaitin also must follow total continence if he is to attain to the level of brahmagyan .

    except vamachaar marga tantriks most other spiritual paths practise abstinence from sex in kaya(physical body) , mana(mind) and vakya(speech) .

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    Re: Sex abstinence?

    Hi Tirisilex
    I would also add that it depends on who the "doer" of the action is understood to be. It might be useful to follow this thread for some ideas on our actions in respect to the Bhagavad Gita.

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    Re: Sex abstinence?

    Quote Originally Posted by sambya View Post
    an advaitin also must follow total continence if he is to attain to the level of brahmagyan .

    except vamachaar marga tantriks most other spiritual paths practise abstinence from sex in kaya(physical body) , mana(mind) and vakya(speech) .
    Namaste sambya,

    I agree that Brahmacharya, by most, is understood as abstinence from sex in kaya (physical body) , mana (mind) and vakya (speech).

    For Advaitins there is a story directly from Shankara's life, where both sides can be seen. Shankara was not declared a sarvajnani (all knowledgable) since He could not answer any question related to sex. So, to gain that knowledge He animated a dead body of a king and experimented on the subject in all ramifications. But He forgot the real aim and had to be reminded by His students.

    The story shows both the sides -- the Ajnana and Jnana, both of which must be known.

    There can be a vicious thing called spiritual pride resulting in "I am a moral person". "I am vegetarian". "I am a renunciate" etc. etc, implying superiority. All these assertions are wrong since "I am" is not any of these limited things. Spiritual pride is more difficult to eradicate than the physical pride. So there is a trap. Most hatred, violence etc. stem from such spiritual egotism.

    There are some teachings in Advaita literature where it is shown that Jnanis living with even ganikas (prostitutes) do not lose their Jnana. There is the event of Parikshit who could be revived from by very much married Shri Krishna due to His true celibacy; whereas, Suka who was a known celibate did not dare to act, since only a true celibate could revive dead Parikshit. Lord Shri Krishna also teaches of King Janaka and other Jnanis. King Janaka is not classical sannyasi.

    Some Gurus teach that Brahmacharya is total abidance in Brahman -- without attraction to any other. Doing anything whatsoever, one is not swerved from Brahman. That is mastery.

    But for most of us, who are students only, including Advaitin practitioners, the dictates of Yama and Niyama only apply. Without practising and getting perfected in Yama Niyama, it will only be a futile dream to abide in Brahman. The pre-requisites to any Yoga are the Yama-Niyama. But it is also true that the real sannyasa (renunciation) is renunciation of ego.

    Om Namah Shivaya
    Last edited by atanu; 16 November 2009 at 07:36 AM.
    That which is without letters (parts) is the Fourth, beyond apprehension through ordinary means, the cessation of the phenomenal world, the auspicious and the non-dual. Thus Om is certainly the Self. He who knows thus enters the Self by the Self.

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    Re: Sex abstinence?

    Quote Originally Posted by atanu View Post
    Namaste sambya,

    I agree that Brahmacharya, by most, is understood as abstinence from sex in kaya (physical body) , mana (mind) and vakya (speech).

    For Advaitins there is a story directly from Shankara's life, where both sides can be seen. Shankara was not declared a sarvajnani (all knowledgable) since He could not answer any question related to sex. So, to gain that knowledge He animated a dead body of a king and experimented on the subject in all ramifications. But He forgot the real aim and had to be reminded by His students.

    The story shows both the sides -- the Ajnana and Jnana, both of which must be known.

    There can be a vicious thing called spiritual pride resulting in "I am a moral person". "I am vegetarian". "I am a renunciate" etc. etc, implying superiority. All these assertions are wrong since "I am" is not any of these limited things. Spiritual pride is more difficult to eradicate than the physical pride. So there is a trap. Most hatred, violence etc. stem from such spiritual egotism.

    There are some teachings in Advaita literature where it is shown that Jnanis living with even ganikas (prostitutes) do not lose their Jnana. There is the event of Parikshit who could be revived by very much married Shri Krishna due to celibacy whereas, Suka who was a known celibate did not dare to act. Lord Shri Krishna also teaches of King Janaka and other Jnanis. King Janaka is not classical sannyasi.

    Some Gurus teach that Brahmacharya is total abidance in Brahman -- without attraction to any other.

    But for most of us, including Advaitin practitioners, the dictates of Yama and Niyama only apply. Without practising and getting perfected in Yama Niyama, it will only be a futile dream to abide in Brahman. The pre-requisites to any Yoga are the Yama-Niyama. But it is also true that the real sannyasa (renunciation) is renunciation of ego.

    Om Namah Shivaya
    namaskar atanu ,

    yes , what you are saying is completely true . ego that sprouts from renunciation , practice of brahmacharya etc is extremely dangerous . these are sukshma ego , or fine ego which cannot be identified easily and leads to gradual falldown of an aspirant .

    and it is also true that throughout our scriptural texts there are mention of countless grihasta self realized saints . infact most rishis and munis stayed with their spouses . the notable examples of such an individual is janaka .

    but there are some practical difficulties to this . vast majority of spiritual aspirants are madhyam or nimna adhikaris . once married and leading a family life , the bondage slowly increases . when even most sannyasis dont make it in one lifetime , isnt it even more harder for those married , with tensions and worries about family hanging over his head ?! when you are unmarried your identity( not the absolute spiritual identity) lies with you alone . but once married . your identity is spread over to include in your family and kids . only a very few aspirants can overcome this bondage practically . having said this i must also mention that abstaining from marraige is not a must . its better to be a contended householder than a dissatisfied 'sannayasi' . true sannyasa is hard to come by indeed .

    janaka however first attained brahmagyan and then settled for samsara . but for most of us that's practically impossible .

    although theoriticaly it is possible to attain the highest perfection level even in samsara , practically speaking it remains a distant goal .

    the vamachaara marga however attempts to reach the supreme through what others reject , namely sexual practice . however it is indeed a distorted way of reaching god . all the spiritual activities(meditation , puja , japa , kirtan) that we do are meant to gradually calm the restless mind so that we can see the image of our self in our chitta(consciousness) . now , sexual passion or sexual activities are the greatest agitators of mind . nothing clouds the mind in a way that kama does . therefore when one tries to reach god through kama it is undoubtedly a distorted and prolonged path . and the risk of getting involved with maya is extremely high .

    you have mentioned how gyanis also meet with ganikas(prostitutes) . a similar thing is said that it is not specially harmful for a gyani to indulge in sexual activities with his wife once in a while . however here the word gyani has a different meaning(as explained to me by a learned sannayasi) . here gyani means one who has a firm belief in the temporal or illusory nature of the world and has a deep belief in god as the ultimate goal of human life . it is not harmful for such a person because his existence always revolves around god . rare situation of deviance cannot ruin his spiritual carrer completely because he is already established in his belief .

    for an ultimate gyani however there is no question of indulgence in sexual activities . he might be married or a renunciate , but he will not have any taste whatsoever for material pleasure anymore . specially after nirvikalpa samadhi , existence as we know it( in a material body) drops off . so there arises no question of sexual contact anymore .

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    Re: Sex abstinence?

    Quote Originally Posted by Tirisilex View Post
    How do Advaitas see sex? Do they believe in complete abstinence like ISKCON? Are they open to having sex in a tantric practice?
    What shashtras say…
    Gopniyam prayantatah . What Krsn says…guhyatamam , means the knowledge can be treated as most private part and for spirituality it should be kept completely hidden , if not then it is science which is used by everybody to the ultimate good and bad .

    Waite writes..revelation of secrets entails death to those who are unable to preserve . This is the main point of this forum for leg pulling .
    Now come to Advaitin , see what Krsn says…
    Pitaahamasya jagato maataa dhaataa pitaamahah…or I [ means , Atma ] am the father of this world, the mother, the dispenser of the fruits of actions, and the
    grandfather; the (one) thing to be known . See what shruti says…
    Esh atmeti brahma , this atma is brahma …same as Krsn says above .

    Take now ISKCON [ international society for krsn consciousness ] , only krsn is there , no radha is there , so complete abstinence . But does iskcon follow it ? Go to Vrindavan , Mathura , there is idol of krsn only , no radha is there .

    Tell me who is at fault…Advaitin or Iskcon .

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