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Thread: Why is demigod worship different from worshiping paramatma

  1. #61
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    Smile Re: Why is demigod worship different from worshiping paramatma

    Quote Originally Posted by brahma jijnasa View Post
    Namaste


    Gaudiya vaishnavas consider that verse Srimad Bhagavatam 1.3.28 refers to all the verses from the first in this chapter to 28th. Some other sampradayas think that the verse 28th refers to verses 27-28 only. I think Gaudiya vaishnavas are right because there is no valid reason to assume that the verse 28th must refer to verses 27-28 only! This means that all the gods mentioned, including Varaha, Narayana, Kurma, Nrisimha, ... etc, are parts of Lord Krishna.



    Pranam ,

    But belief is not the truth always . I think Ameyatma is right . That verse is in relation with previous verse . Because Bhagavata Puraan says something different .

    Bhagavata Purana clearly states that Krishna is a part of Vishnu . ( See the proof below ) . Besides , In many puranas , Krishna is described as a Avatara of vishnu and I think everyone know this .


    भूमेः सुरेतरवरूथविमर्दितायाः ।
    क्लेशव्ययाय कलया सितकृष्णकेशः ॥ भागवत पूरण २.७.२६ ॥

    " To destroy evils , ishwara ( Vishnu ) will take birth by a ansha ( part ) in the form of dark ( krishna ) and white hair ( balarama ) " [ In vishnu purana also , krishna and balaranma are described as part of mahavishnu . ]

    So according to me , every avatara of mahavishnu is kalavatar and bhagavan simultaneously. From above verse , we certainly come to know that ansha is just an imagination with respect to formless bramhan . Ansha is just like a reflection of sun in a pot . That reflection of sun appears as a part of big sun . It is totally identical to the big sun and appears as a finite aspect of big sun . In the same way , krishna is totally identical to formless bramhan but appear as a human form ie as a part of supreme formless infinite Bramhan
    . Sages had considered this point and imagined avatara as ansha of bramhan/Vishnu .

    When krishna appears as a krishna , his formless nature doesn't get tainted . Because maya has no any existence at all . Through the view of bramhan , krishna takes maya is somewhat meaningless . He appears in his real infinite formless nature And this would be the truth .

    Conclusion : Krishna is avatara of mahavishnu . Only mahavishnu is the origination of all avataras including krishna . Because he is the first purusha avatara of bramhan at the time of creation of the universe .

    Last edited by hinduism♥krishna; 02 February 2014 at 03:41 AM.
    Hari On!

  2. #62
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    Wink Re: Why is demigod worship different from worshiping paramatma


    My view on this topic : " Why is demigod worship different from worshiping Paramatma "

    According to me , this question itself doesn't make any sense . First I want clarification on demigod word .

    What is the reason for using demigod word . Demi-god means Half God . Veda doesn't mention such half god concepts . So why don't they use Devata word instead of Demigod ? Now you will say Half god means the jiva who acquired the divine state . This is also not acceptable . Because Vedas don't glorify them in such manner .

    Vedas give very high salutations and great esteem to devatas . So calling them Demigods is certainly disrespecting them .

    Now my question , Why should devata worship be considered different from worshiping Paramatma ?

    Because , In Bhagavata Purana , Shri Krishna himself says that Devatas , Bramhanas and cows are the most sacred places to worship him . He resides there . Note that worshiping devatas for material gains is a different thing and I don't think worshiping krishna for material gains would be a different thing from this .

    And my final view on this topic .. " Worshiping Paramatma , Worshiping Atma and Worshiping Devatas as Bramhan and worshiping supreme gods like krishna or Shiva , are not different . [ Note : Devatas are parts of Bramhan . Part of Infinite is also Infinite . So it is not wrong to worship Devatas as Bramhan ]

    I think Bhagavata Purana is very clear on this topic . Shukadeva says " Our atma should be worshipped . One should worship Vishnu as his self . Because Indeed vishnu is atma of all living beings , "

    Read this Mantra to know What should be worshipped : ( Note : I consider every shloka of Bhagavata as Mantra )


    स सर्वधीवृत्त्यनुभूतसर्व
    आत्मा यथा स्वप्नजनेक्षितैकः ।
    तं सत्यमानंदनिधिं भजेत
    नान्यत्र सज्जेद्यत आत्मपातः ॥ भगवत पुराण २.१.३९ ॥

    Shuka Says : " Even as Dreamer sees himself in various things , like that , who experiences all things from everyone's mind is the only one Atma . Only he is the happiness and the truth . One should worship him only and should not induldge in another thing which causes downfall . "


    So Indeed , Atma is not different from Bramhan . We should worship him . Those who know and worship his Atma as Bramhan are the real knowers of the truth and I think They are the greatest Vaishnawas .


    Hari Krishna Hari Hari ..
    Last edited by hinduism♥krishna; 02 February 2014 at 10:45 PM.
    Hari On!

  3. #63

    Re: Why is demigod worship different from worshiping paramatma

    Quote Originally Posted by Jaskaran Singh View Post
    I noticed that the following statements were also said when clicking on your link, Aryavartian:

    Philosophy Discussion on Charles Darwin:
    Prabhupāda: Those who are Aryan, non-Aryan; just like I say, they are all human beings, but why you say one Aryan and another non-Aryan? It is difference of culture, that's all.
    Devotee: Say, for example, there is the Caucasian race, the Negroid race, different races like that. If they are all living in the same... Say they all join Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement, then they are all the same...
    Prabhupāda: But Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is not on the basic principle of this body. It is basically on the soul; therefore you will find everyone same."

    "Prabhupāda: Yes, Aryan family, the structure of body... From the... There is a science called physiognomy. No? Yes. So it can be ascertained. But we have got forget all these material. We have to advance in Kṛṣṇa consciousness. This is white skin... So you have all taken your bath? So, give me little oil. I shall also take bath."

    From the above statements, it seems that he is not viewing "white skin" in a material, racial context, but instead in regards to guNa-s (wherein black refers to tamasaguNa and white refers to sattvaguNa). Still, the other comments about Europeans being Arya and Africans and "drAviDians" being anArya is indeed racial and directly parallels those of eugenicists at the time, so I'm not too sure. Perhaps an ISKCONite could inform us as to why that was said.

    Pranams,


    Even if Sri Prabhupada talked of this "black skin" and "white skin" in a metaphorical way(just like in Rg Veda,where krsna tvac is a metaphorical epithet of Dasyus,i.e the evil wicked men/tribes) why should he say that Aryans marched towards India from central Asia?

    And we Dravidians were one of the earliest worshipers of Sri Krishna/Mayon/Mal
    "Only one is the fire,which is inflamed in numerous ways.Only one is the sun, which pervades the whole universe.Only one is the dawn,which illuminates all things. Similarly,all that exists is The One and it has manifested into everything here.”

    ~ Rg Veda 8.58.2

  4. #64
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    Re: Why is demigod worship different from worshiping paramatma

    Quote Originally Posted by Aryavartian View Post
    Pranams,:

    And we Dravidians were one of the earliest worshipers of Sri Krishna/Mayon/Mal

    Are you a south Indian ? So be proud of it.

    In Bhagavata Purana, It is stated that most real vaishnawas would be in Dravida state in Kaliyuga.

    Besides , Vaishnu's kalki avatar is also Dravidian . He will take birth in Shambala village. Shabala is the hidden south Indian village. Many scholars proposed that the village would be in south India .
    Hari On!

  5. #65
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    Re: Why is demigod worship different from worshiping paramatma

    And we Dravidians were one of the earliest worshipers of Sri Krishna/Mayon/Mal
    Prabhupāda: Dravidian culture. Dravida. They are non-Āryans. Just like these Africans, they are not Āryans. Now they are mixing up with Europeans and Americans. In India, it was, one from the higher section, brāhmaṇa, kṣatriya, vaiśya, they will be fair complexion. Śūdras, black. So if a brāhmaṇa becomes black, then he's not accepted as brāhmaṇa. Kāla bahu (?). And if a śūdra becomes fair, then he's to be know that he's not pure śūdra. Although we do not take very, but, this brāhmaṇa, kṣatriya, vaiśya, by birth, but still, we have seen, those who are coming purely from high caste family, their behavior and śūdras behavior is different. The family culture. And the spiritual culture lost, still, the family culture keeps them separate.Prabhupāda: Maybe. Actually Aryan civilization was central Asia. Some of them went towards India and some of them went towards Europe. Indo-European stock that is called.

    No, no. Uncivilized, just like aborigine.

    @Aryavartian
    My post is only addressed to you.

    The above quotes are from Iskcon sites. The meanings are clear to me at least and I believe they are to you too. Now let me ask you a question. What is causing you the pain.1. That prabhupada said Aryans have come from central Asia. This might pain certain Indians and a particular group of people. 2. That prabhupada said dravidians are non-aryans like Africans and aborigines and later calls them uncivilized. 3. Or do you as person/humanitarian feel the pain from human point of view that any one should not be called as uncivilized based on his birth, whether that be aborigines or Africans ?
    When the light has risen, there is no day, no night, neither existence nor non-existence; Siva alone is there. That is the eternal, the adorable light of Savitri, - and the ancient wisdom proceeded thence (Svetasvatara Upanishad IV-18). :)

  6. #66

    Re: Why is demigod worship different from worshiping paramatma

    Quote Originally Posted by hinduism♥krishna View Post
    Are you a south Indian ? So be proud of it.

    In Bhagavata Purana, It is stated that most real vaishnawas would be in Dravida state in Kaliyuga.

    Besides , Vaishnu's kalki avatar is also Dravidian . He will take birth in Shambala village. Shabala is the hidden south Indian village. Many scholars proposed that the village would be in south India .
    Pranam,


    Yes,i'm from south,i'm not a Vaishnava though.I do respect all Dharmic faiths,including Nastika sects

    And i think Shambala is located somewhere in Tibet,not in south India.Buddhists also view it as an exotic hidden region.
    "Only one is the fire,which is inflamed in numerous ways.Only one is the sun, which pervades the whole universe.Only one is the dawn,which illuminates all things. Similarly,all that exists is The One and it has manifested into everything here.”

    ~ Rg Veda 8.58.2

  7. #67

    Re: Why is demigod worship different from worshiping paramatma

    Prranam Isavasya let me answer your queries.

    Quote Originally Posted by isavasya View Post
    1. That prabhupada said Aryans have come from central Asia. This might pain certain Indians and a particular group of people.
    Yes,this indeed pains me.It means the he believed in Aryan invasion.

    2. That prabhupada said dravidians are non-aryans like Africans and aborigines and later calls them uncivilized.
    As a Dravidian myself,it pains me that he called Dravidians as non-Aryas,and that he believed in this Aryan-Dravidian divide.


    3. Or do you as person/humanitarian feel the pain from human point of view that any one should not be called as uncivilized based on his birth, whether that be aborigines or Africans ?
    I believe that several African or aborigine tribes indeed lead a primitive life.But he shouldn't have called civilized Africans,like African Americans & South Africans,as uncivilized.
    "Only one is the fire,which is inflamed in numerous ways.Only one is the sun, which pervades the whole universe.Only one is the dawn,which illuminates all things. Similarly,all that exists is The One and it has manifested into everything here.”

    ~ Rg Veda 8.58.2

  8. #68
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    Smile Re: Why is demigod worship different from worshiping paramatma

    Pranam ,

    I remember all of you that you are discussing off-topic and that too on myth of Aryan Theory. Stop debating it.

    @Isavasya

    There is no question of pain to any Hindu. Because Hindus or Aryas know the truth . They are not weak or emotional. Every Hindu knows his own motherland's history.

    I think, The problem is when someone supports the myth having no support from Vaidik Scriptures or any scientific proof and at the same time claims that we are followers of Vaidik Scriptures .

    I only want to say that this isn't right. Nothing else.

    Hari
    Last edited by hinduism♥krishna; 02 February 2014 at 08:52 PM.
    Hari On!

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