Dangerous Mantra Meditation?

[sm78]

Originally Posted by Kismet

I might have it opposite, though, as many of these comments here indicate.

Yes indeed. Plus vaishnavas don't believe that other deities can grant moksha or vaikuntha, only vishnu does. So in vaishnava practice, there is no point in worshiping other deities except out of respect and for worldly gains.

If you are not a vaishnava but generally have a liking for the vishnu form, then shakti worship is bit of a jump.

Devotee's suggestion is per haves the best, but it is up to you to judge.

As I said I don't understand your goal of "destroy my ego", as ego is not a tangible material entity which you can destroy. Logically, if now your ego is destroyed you will be destroyed too. But in actuality such goals can itself be good cause of developing deep ego mania and psychosis. I have even seen shakti sadhaks who are constantly talking about ego, their own and other's, and as a consequent cannot think beyond their limited identification - to an extent that I believe they are medically psychotic. What else can happen with extreme fascination with an intangible, imaginary concept like ego?

There is no ego in reality - only false identification of self on non-self, which is removed by awakening of wisdom/prajna as per vedanta and anugraha or divine grace as per tantra. You do sadhana to understand this false identification to understand the true self. That is what you should do if you want to "destroy your ego", like the rest. But if you treat ego as a tangible entity inside you, I think the effort is doomed. My opinion only of course.

[Jainarayan]

Originally Posted by sm78

Yes indeed. Plus vaishnavas don't believe that other deities can grant moksha or vaikuntha, only vishnu does. So in vaishnava practice, there is no point in worshiping other deities except out of respect and for worldly gains.

Indeed. I offer stotras to Lord Shiva, Maa Parvati, Sri Hanuman, Maa Saraswati and Lord Ganesha, but those are indeed only for respect (mostly) and some worldly gains, I admit... Maa Saraswati to help me with my music; Sri Hanuman to help me with my physical activities; Sri Ganesha for a smooth undertaking of any kind.

People pray to Mahalakshmi for material wealth, but I think that's wrong. Oh sure, I've asked Her to help me through a rough spot, and She has. She is the internal energy of Lord Vishnu and equal to Lord Vishnu, as one prayer says.

But the desire and request for moksha, and my meditation goes only to Lord Vishnu.

"Those who are devotees of other gods and who worship them with faith actually worship only Me, O son of Kunti, but they do so in a wrong way." Bhagavad Gita 9.23

"Those who worship the demigods will take birth among the demigods; those who worship the ancestors go to the ancestors; those who worship ghosts and spirits will take birth among such beings; and those who worship Me will live with Me." 9.25

".... those who, renouncing all actions in Me, and regarding Me as the Supreme, worship Me... of those whose thoughts have entered into Me, I am soon the deliverer from the ocean of death and transmigration, Arjuna. Keep your mind on Me alone, your intellect on Me. Thus you shall dwell in Me hereafter." 12.6-8

Just some more of my rambling and wandering thoughts.

[danilorogs]

Thank you !!!

[ShivaFan]

Namaste

An example of total detachment is in the life of the master Trailinga Swami the "Walking Shiva of Varanasi". His life is so famous, without any attachment and in total renouncement of all material gain and possession. He was totally in One with the Truth, yet also a devotee of Kali Mother.
He not only attained Moksha, he was Moksha while living, of which he lived from 1607 until 1887, over 200 years.

Trailinga Swami spent his last years in silence next to Kali and Shiva deities carved from stone with his own hands.

He sat at his altar writing Sanskrit shlokas and giving advice to others.
When Saints visited him, he often spoke in his own version of sign language.

Famous Bengali Saint, Ramakrishna, visited Trailinga Swami and said that although he had taken a body, Trailinga Swami was as Lord Shiva, the embodiment of Wisdom.

To be honest, this holy mystic was not much for mantras. And yes, there are mantras which are only given by the Guru to you, especially for you since you came upon the Guru with grace and what He teaches you is a tradition that is authorized and you became that Path.

Yes there are mantras which effect differently for different souls.
There are some which, for others who are not ready, are for mystics and siddhas who indeed do attain moksha. They would not be a way for a soul in different circumstances.

There are humans who try to belittle a Devas or Devi as a lesser, unable to give moksha. I will tell you, what I have been told is moksha is a gift and also a path to it and you will endevour for it.

Perhaps a given mantra to Kali Maa is not for another. And if you already have a mantra given by a Guru, that is your mantra of your focus.

Please be respectful to those who do not belong to your Sampradaya in how you try to glorify your own. Tell us about the glories of your Lord, tell me how one can be taken into Moksha by your Lord. But do not tell me that another cannot be taken into Moksha by another Lord, when they were Moksha itself. If you go to Varanasi, where this Saint was there, you will find many saying chants to Kali in His honor. But he sought no honor, ever. Nor, in fact, was He much on such worship. But he saw Kali Mother with His own eyes. And those who give a mantra and bhajan to the Mother, remembering Him, I will tell you Moksha awaits them if not already the seed is in the heart that soon will be the banyan tree.

Om Namah Sivaya

[hanumanrij]

namaste

I hope this isn't too far off topic but it concerns this "dangerous" aspect that has been discussed.

First, clearly it is contentious to some but I believe words are powerful and one must know the root meanings to them before saying them. There are several lexicons available. I rather enjoy this one:
http://www.sanskrit-lexicon.uni-koel...mil/index.html though it may be a bit heavy for some

This is only my opinion, to take or leave. No big deal. I must remember always that Learning Life comes on a learning curve and without a driver's manual. Some are new drivers and need wide berth and some do not.

Use your turn signals.

My question for the forum is this: can the chant "om ham humante rudratmakaya..." be a Nama chant at all? since it doesn't specifically contain the word(s) namah in it? It refers to Shivah of course but it makes me nervous to use it now. It is very powerful and works. (I don't use this lightly I live with a manageable chronic illness, btw, need to destroy disease; perhaps tmi but there you have it...)

I am aware of the difference between the "A" and the "U" in "hAm" and "hAn" and won't even post it, as I feel so strongly about the second point (ibid). I always use the "A", personally. To post here more on this for clarity sake: the U is used to invoke (possibly?) magic ritual or to signal that a cleric is introducing a psalm-of-sorts during a service, am I correct? śukriyā

om namah sivayah

[Necromancer]

Namaste.

I am interested to know why you chose that particular Mantra in the first place (with or without a teacher).

It all sounds kind of 'Indiana Jones' here. Sometimes, people worship Goddess Kali for strength, fearlessness and other deficits of character which is still all ego-based nonetheless.

I mean, Goddess Kali looks amazing and terrifying, no? Eyes bulging out, tongue lolling, standing on a prostrate Lord Shiva...why worship her when you can worship Durga Mata? Then again, people could ask me why I worship Bhairava and not Lord Shiva (I do anyway).

It all depends on your reasons/motivation for worshiping such a terrible form of the Goddess and using her Mantra.

But maybe even more important in the case of Kali is the correct bhava that is that you should consider her as a loving and protective mother only. To look at her in other aspects including a destructiveform as i assume you did judging from what you wrote " shall we say, destroy my own ego. " is not without risk so you better stick to benevolent aspects like dakshinkali, or better yet focus on Durga.

This...pretty much.

If the intent is pure, it is not dangerous (not advisable without a Guru), but not dangerous.

If the intent is malevolent, or selfish, She will strike you down quicker than you can say...

Aum Namah Shivaya

[Ra K Sankar]

Namaste

Goddess KaaLi is the Primordial Goddess adored (among the 10) in tantras.
She was never born, but only manifested when She had to manifest.

She is terrible, of course, but She along-with Bhairava
are the "only two" awake in this age of darkness,
as per Aslee Praacheen KaaLee Kitaab by Sandeep Gupta.

Terrible means "terrifying" of course, but the "actual reality" of the cosmos,
of which She is the Ruler, without superimposing any mental ideations.

Worship of Goddess KaaLi, makes one easily accept terrible worldly events
Further, such a worship easily rids one of the sense of guilt from the past.
This enables one to progress swiftly (speedily, as below) on the spiritual path.

When Sri Rama at Gaya (Gadhaadhar) incarnated as Sri Ramakrishna,
He attained Realization of Goddess KaaLi at Dakshineshwar.

Reading the Gospel of Sri Ramakrishna invokes
the Grace of the Satguru and Avatar, Sri Ramakrishna,
who can guide one along the path of worshipping Goddess KaaLi.
The "Spiritual Force of Sri Ramakrishna is alive inside the Gospel".

For example, Sri Aurobindo and His Spiritual Consort, the Mother Mirra,
explicitly state that reading with blank mind "Savitri",
the epic scriptural English masterpiece by Sri Aurobindo,
will guide their followers without the need for a spiritual guru.

Goddess Kailua declared Herself to be "the Supreme" to Sri Ramakrishna.
You may find this horripilating experience recounted in online
a) "Gospel of Sri Ramakrishna" (5.70 MB), by Mahendranath Gupta, and
b) "Sri Ramakrishna, the Great Master" (20.7 MB), by Swami Sharadananda.

Again, Goddess KaaLi speedily endows Her devotees with strength
(so says Sri Aurobindo, in His text "The Mother"),
to speedily resolve the past birth intense deed impact.

She drags Her devotees speedily across spiritual path
transforming their ordinary life into a spiritual one.
She takes over Her devotees' lives and that inevitably means
at least 5 years of suffering after Her taking over.

She also gives evidence of Her omnipresence through worldly events.
Just mentally tell Her to give evidence, the signs will become manifest,
the style in which Sri Ramakrishna used to learn from Her.
Of course, He used to behold Her Divine Form in His Vision,
but we may get only signs manifested in external circumstances.

Again, you have experienced the power of the potent mantra.
It must be continued unabated, as that is your experience.

Sri Ramakrishna used to guide different devotees as per their temperament
He guided Swami Vivekananda as per His non-dual mood
and guided Swami Abhedananda as per his dualistic mood.
So, you shall be guided along the lines of worship of the Terrible.

Again, you have been worshipping Bhairava.
You may know that Kaala Bhairava is Dhakshinamurthi,
the primordial Guru who Silently instructed
Brahma's mind-born sons, Sanaka, et al, in Brahman.

Also, worship of (Kaala) Bhairava annihilates fear with speed
while worship of Batuka Bhairava brings in protection slowly.

Aum KaaLi
Ra K Sankar

[ShriBala]

Namaskara Shankar ji! Your reply is very interesting to me as, not only do i think Mother Kaalikaa is my ishta roopam but also, the circumstances you had quoted as a pre-condition for the ishta roopam to be known, in the thread about "how to find one's ishta", matches, to a quite a good extent, what had happened with me.
Btw, i'm reading out the 10names of Shri Shani maharaj you had mentioned to me earlier. Thank you.

Originally Posted by Ra K Sankar

Namaste

Terrible means "terrifying" of course, but the "actual reality" of the cosmos,
of which She is the Ruler, without superimposing any mental ideations.

what does this mean in 'simple' English?

Originally Posted by Ra K Sankar

Worship of Goddess KaaLi, makes one easily accept terrible worldly events

by worldly, do you mean the happenings concerned with the laukika aspect of a person's life?

Originally Posted by Ra K Sankar

Further, such a worship easily rids one of the sense of guilt from the past.

Guilt about what?

Originally Posted by Ra K Sankar

Again, Goddess KaaLi speedily endows Her devotees with strength
(so says Sri Aurobindo, in His text "The Mother"),
to speedily resolve the past birth intense deed impact.

again, karma is being mentioned here, is it? Strength to bear more difficulties?

Originally Posted by Ra K Sankar

She takes over Her devotees' lives and that inevitably means
at least 5 years of suffering after Her taking over.

.

Why "inevitable" suffering? Is it 5 because it stands for the Mother? Does this mean that She would come only into those folks' lives, like mine, who have tonnes, or atleast 5 years, of negative karma-s to undergo?

Can you explain the points a bit more? Thanks once again.

[Ra K Sankar]

Namaste Bala-ji

Terrible is what is not palatable to our senses.

We may regularly view "Criminal Minds" in TV and go to sleep.
This may gradually create nightmares after sufficient time.
We may get awakened from sleep, roll-over and sleep again,
without getting up, refreshing and meditating.
That will re-impress the nightmares in us and
we may experience these crimes while awake.
To others, this may look horrible,
but we had to experience these crimes.

Guilt is something which we got attracted to doing
but to which doing we have not managed to reconcile.
This is the conflict between deed and values.

Thanks and kind regards
Ra K Sankar

[Ra K Sankar]

Namaste Bala-ji

We do both good and bad, but some we do with intense energy.

Normally, it is the bad that gets done with intense energy,
because we do this against the wishes of others,
and that means we need, not only energy to do the same
but also to combat the counter-acting energy from others.

When we are evolved, we may be able to intense good deeds.

But at some point in one of our births,
good and bad may be about to balance each other.
At that time, sudden misfortunes befall us.
making us realize that God is the doer.
Then, some past intense deed may also bear fruit.
This will compound our difficulties and
we may experience ourselves as the aura
or serpent surrounding our physical frame.

At this time, we feel helpless due,-
a) to our surroundings moving on uncontrollably, and
b) to our not comprehending our serpent aura.
Most of us are without the guidance of a spiritual Guru.
Hence, to come back to life feeling normal,
we may take about 3 to 5 years.

This time is taken to initiate ourselves into spiritual life,
guided by our past impressions and by the Grace of God.

Of course, 3 represents Jupiter, the Guru of the celestials
and 5 represents Mercury, the Lord of changefulness.

Thanks and kind regards
Ra K Sankar