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Thread: Has MK's Ahimsa Ideology Killed Our Moral Sense to Fight Against Oppression?

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    Has MK's Ahimsa Ideology Killed Our Moral Sense to Fight Against Oppression?

    Pranaam !

    Kindly do not consider this as a MK bashing thread.

    I am hurt by the decline of moral sense among us and figuring out the root cause.

    Up on reading the stories of our freedom fighters and the tyranny they were subjected to in the hands on British rule, a illiterate like me will end up with a feeling that Ahimsa preached by MK Gandhi is nothing but an act of cowardice. ie.. you harm me how much ever you want, I wont harm you back. This concept is against what our Devatas have done to save us when the tyranny reached its maximum threshold. Also I can't understand the use of Ahimsa as a weapon against violence. What is the use of Ahimsa when it can not protect me?

    Answering these sort of series of questions, ended up at a bigger and controversial question.

    Has MK's Ahimsa Ideology Killed Our Moral Sense to Fight Against Oppression?

    There are many learned members in this forum who have more understanding about the Ahimsa preached by MK. Kindly share your wisdom.

    Thanks in advance!!!
    Anirudh...

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    Re: Has MK's Ahimsa Ideology Killed Our Moral Sense to Fight Against Oppression?

    namaste,

    Quote Originally Posted by Anirudh View Post

    Has MK's Ahimsa Ideology Killed Our Moral Sense to Fight Against Oppression?
    Yes.
    satay

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    Re: Has MK's Ahimsa Ideology Killed Our Moral Sense to Fight Against Oppression?

    Namaste Anirudh and Satay,

    In my humble opinion as a Westerner, I don't think it's Gandhi's ideology of ahimsa that's killed the drive to fight against oppression - it's that people nowadays have confused ahimsa with complacency. They are not the same, and they should never be mixed up.

    Gandhi's idea of ahimsa involved action and doing something about the wrongs of this world, even if that something didn't involve violence. Non-violence doesn't equate to non-action, and that is where people today falter. There are still ways to fight injustice without having to resort to violence, which people aren't being taught!

    This is the true crime - it's not non-violence, it's non-action. The Bhagavad Gita says we must perform action in order to live our lives, so doing nothing is the real sin!

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    Re: Has MK's Ahimsa Ideology Killed Our Moral Sense to Fight Against Oppression?

    Namaste!

    Being a foreigner, I am generally hesitant to comment on internal Indian politics, but I have to agree with Webimpulse. There is a pseudo-Gandhianism, not unlike (and in fact related to) pseudo-secularism that is far from the actual teaching of Gandhi. I suspect that this is the real problem that you are identifying.

    Gandhi clearly stated that violence is preferable to cowardice and advocated for an armed police force and a standing military for independent India. His nonviolent campaigns were well-orchestrated and organized media events cleverly designed to shame India's oppressors before the eyes of the world. This is a far cry from passivity (and was even condemned by Jiddu Krishnamurti as a form of violence).

    Gandhi also stated, incidentally, that everything of value that can be found in other religions is already present in Hinduism. The Gandhi of history is quite a different character from the Gandhi of the popular imagination.

    I know Gandhi is a controversial figure and that there are many Hindus who dislike him. I don't want to weigh in on any of that, but simply to clarify that Gandhi's actual philosophy was not one of passive acceptance of violence. I suspect if Gandhi were alive today, his reaction to the current situation in Delhi would be to have armies of activists riding buses to prevent the harassment of women, or even to start a volunteer harassment free (or perhaps even a women's only) bus service.

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    Re: Has MK's Ahimsa Ideology Killed Our Moral Sense to Fight Against Oppression?

    Namaste Webimpulse, Jeffery D. Long

    Thanks for sharing your views and wisdom. But I am unable to differentiate between the term "in action" and MK's version of non violence.

    MK could have opted the tried and tested method "Sāma, Dāna, Bheda, Danda" but apparently he chose Ahimsa instead. This definitely has turned the majority into powerless complacent eunuchs. Apologies for the usage of harsh words, but only the guy who endured the pain can understand the pain.

    I am unable to find one single answer for the simple question, why we had to go through from Jallianwala Bagh massacre to till the partition of India.

    MK's non violence movement seemed to have helped tyrannic rullers to get away scot-free while Indian masses endured tyranny to get freedom from the tyrannic rule. That makes me thinking what is that accrued bad karma which lead to our demise?

    I am not sure, how many will agree with me? I personally think we Indians haven't yet got our complete freedom. Even after 60+ years of independence common man is robbed exploited and no one gives a damn about it but for lip service.

    I will wait for more inputs from our esteemed members as in my opinion it s very important for every Indian to know where why and how he has faltered
    Anirudh...

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    Re: Has MK's Ahimsa Ideology Killed Our Moral Sense to Fight Against Oppression?

    Namaste Anirudh!

    I respect your opinion and your position as an Indian, which I cannot and would not wish to dispute. I shall leave this topic for others with more direct experience to engage.

    Shanti!

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    Re: Has MK's Ahimsa Ideology Killed Our Moral Sense to Fight Against Oppression?


    Those Americans who praise Gandhi are by default turn into haters ofGeorge Washington.

    Make a choice please and don’t vacillate anymore. For myselfGW is a hero for all humanity.
    Namaste.

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    Re: Has MK's Ahimsa Ideology Killed Our Moral Sense to Fight Against Oppression?

    Namaste Charitra,

    That reply sounded rather accusatory, to be honest. I wasn't expressing favoritism towards Gandhi over Washington, I was just trying to clarify that Gandhi had his own way of fighting oppression that many misunderstood.

    Also, to be honest, why is my stance that offensive? I don't see how I was vacillating in any way. I was addressing the original topic. Please don't accuse me of offenses I didn't even know existed.

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    Re: Has MK's Ahimsa Ideology Killed Our Moral Sense to Fight Against Oppression?

    Namaste webimpulse,

    If at all anyone gets accused of here it ought to be MK Gandhi himself. He was offered the leadership role on a silver plotter and he had made it a personal experimental model to the detriment of all Indians. Having already lived in Europe and south Africa and learnt the language Europeans understand well in 18th century, he didn’t make use of the knowledge at all. Instead MKG made Indians wait for several more decades to drive the occupiers out, all in the name of dharma (sic). Sathyagraha will oneday yield result but at the mercy of the perpetrator not perthe demands of victims. Compare it with the tremendous achievement of GW’s resistance, who drove out Brits in a matter of months.

    That was the crux of my post: One cant have it both ways, either one can call MK as the best leader or alternatively elect GW for the award. The end goals of these two men were the same, the means followed to reach the goal were entirely opposite. GW followed kshatriya dharma and MK just waited with inaction (non cooperation) as the core doctrine of his philosophy. Sama, dana and beda are 3 peaceful means to be tried sincerely and exhausted first and, failing of which one must adopt the last path which is danda (war). As we all know that’s what Gita proclaimed: “ inaction is not an option”. Let us remind ourselves that Krishna himself went to Kaurava darbar (court) as a mere messenger (rayabari) to sort out the real estate row by peaceful means just so the impending war could be completely avoided.. Krishna was ridiculed and called partisan and coward by the Kaurava brothers, after Krishna raaya bara failed only then Kurukshetra unfolded for the world to witness, the first and probably the last dharma yuddham that ever took place. In Gandhi’s book the 4th one (danda or war) was erased, he made millions suffer in indignity whilst he himself enjoyed the limelight in all those decades.

    As above said only Indians can fathom the meaning of it all, for others it (Gandhi’s sathya graha and ahimsa) is just a novelty. I hope this clarifies my position.


    Quote Originally Posted by Webimpulse View Post
    Namaste Charitra,

    That reply sounded rather accusatory, to be honest. I wasn't expressing favoritism towards Gandhi over Washington, I was just trying to clarify that Gandhi had his own way of fighting oppression that many misunderstood.

    Also, to be honest, why is my stance that offensive? I don't see how I was vacillating in any way. I was addressing the original topic. Please don't accuse me of offenses I didn't even know existed.

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    Re: Has MK's Ahimsa Ideology Killed Our Moral Sense to Fight Against Oppression?

    Namaste Charitra,

    Thank you for the clarification, that does make things a bit clearer. And after reading all that, I would have to agree with you on your overall point! I actually do remember reading somewhere (I forget the book) that the main reason George Washington and the others were able to win the American Revolution was for the same reason the Vietnamese were able to win the Vietnam War in the '60s and '70s. So it is a good point!

    I guess the reason I reacted like I did initially was because the way your post was phrased, it sounded like a personal attack. So once again, thank you for clarifying that it wasn't.

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