When people meet ...

[yajvan]

hariḥ oṁ
~~~~~~
namasté

Dear friend ,
Any one? Is there any one who crossed maya. i don't think so . Definitely it is not a state which is momentary .It is a constant state , though it looks different for onlookers .Such a soul even if immersed in wordly actions is totally detached from them.

Does anyone = here on HDF, or in the world at the present time?

And this notion of māyā... Much can be said about this. Yet it is not outside one's own individuality. That is where to start.

Many see this māyā as the ~villain~. I do not.

Also , since this is the jyotish folder, we should not stray too far from the subject matter at hand ( that includes me ).

iti śivaṁ

[Rohiniranjan]

Yes . Rohiniranjanji ,
But to be very honest I don't think , that there are people who reached that state amongst us . Even in deep meditation , there is a subtle state of consciousness , which still has 'I' ness .If there are , they do not sit here conducting workshops , seminars , giving lectures , charging hefty fees for the operational expenditure or running of the institutions in the name of ashrams. That is a state where money ceases to exist or exhibit. Whatever I say is from mundane point of view and about ordinary mortals like me . rgds .

Dear friend,

Not wishing to get into a cricket match of arguments (one of the mental games that the ego plays, often seen on internet and certainly off internet as well :-)), hence I hope we all do not take every comment, whether from the scriptures or our mundane experiences as *rebuttals* -- but just as another bead of ideas and perceptions. These might be different from ours, but they still are ideas of all human beings who are striving to figure out by and for themselves this elegant concept of Karma, Gunas, Maya, etc.

But, regardless of where or at which stage (if there are really stages, or simple a gradual progression of our comprehension aided by growing in-sight), we are, individually, it is useful to continue sharing our understanding! To me, this is one of the very useful purposes of not only this unique forum, but similarly other forums too :-)

Self-realization, like Rome, was never built in a day or overnight! But most of us would need to keep that in mind and through remaining mindful of that, may our 'i' keep growing until we understand or get to know the *I* and the ONENESS of ALL!

In all honesty and fairness, I have been fortunately spared -- (partly by location, partly by life and its circumstances that have surrounded me, etc.), serving as an astrologer and studying it side by side with living in the world with the worldly -- from the folks and activities that you have described and implicitely decried. Who does what, how and why are conversations that they will have to carry out and come to terms with; they are not my business, candidly speaking! ;-)

While not be the only way to seek growth, astrology does have a wonderful effect (growth) on the nativity as well as the astrologer. This is something to be experienced (hence experiential reality-realization!) and difficult to describe in words and ideas that other minds may find difficult to understand, until they experience it themselves! The marble slab is not necessarily shiny, smooth and has chips and pits etc, but it still remains marble! <LOL>

Love and Light!

Rohiniranjan

[Rohiniranjan]

Saswathy ji,

Although the ultimate goal is total, pure and constant detachment, but it does arrive in moments and bits and pieces. For example the well-known phenomenon called, "Shmashaan Vairagya". Little fleeting, disjointed moments as well as of a deep sense of peace and seeing the ONENESS as WHOLENESS of the Universe are what make us grow!

I agree with Yajvan ji that, although these matters are related to astrology, conceptually, we should probably go back to astrology! Including myself!! :-)

Regards,

Rohiniranjan

[Rohiniranjan]

Krishna ji (and others),

As our wise Yajvan ji gently reminded us about the jyotish perimeter of sharings, and very rightly so while adding some very wise sharings -- and putting candidly, I am not trying to butter him/her up ;-) (gee I must have some bad planets in my communication-expression sector or something like that!), but here are my additional two cents!

Firstly, of course that old saw: One robin appearing even when the snow is on the ground, must not send us scurrying for spring clothing and pack away our winter ones! Living in Western Siberia (climate-wise, though getting older each year!), past winter had been brutal and here in the later third of MAY, we still have pretty cold nights and even days! (ambient average still in mid to low teens in celsius scale! <LOL>); Mind you I am not complaining! So, HMS ji's innocent sounding query that led to this tree of sharing and branches and branchings, one tiny precautionary note if I may?

We (ALL?) from time to time try to fit what seems logical into Astrology and muse and end up with Astro-FIT-o-logy? Bhavat-bhavam is a wonderful and useful concept and so too are padas! Based on extrapolations and interpolations and absolutely no problem with all that, but infatuation must never become marriage! Two related but distant concepts? ;-)

We can all, brainy people that we are and dedicated can apply the basic logic handed down to us by ancient Rishis or even not so ancient Muni-likes and essentially our teachers -- on to the kalapurusha kundali concept or the roster of friendships in panchadha or similar tools, perspectives and approaches and develop a tendency to remember and notice the 'hits' and ignore 'miss'es, the fact remains that such infatuations do not last! At least not in astrology if it is followed seriously and sincerely! I know I sometimes use a bit colourful descriptions but that is the fault of part of my name, I suppose ;-)

But seriously, HMS ji (if still tuned in and not entirely given up, on this thread started by you!), what you wrote was exactly what I was fortunate to become alert to in an ancient milieu (ancient in cyber-clock terms of KHz advancing to MHz and now GIGA Hz and Tera-bytes! Back then 64k held the OS and available space to store, even when using a cassette recorder as a data-peripheral!).

In those ancient '90s, Celestine Prophecy by James Redfield, a simple novel was published about Synchronicity and it was the BIG deal back then (he then followed that success story with umpteen others but none as influential as the first sharing!). Not an astrologer, he did manage to bring to earth (with limitations) what Carl Jung, a famous Psychiatrist and philosopher-thinker and an astrologer-spiritualist as well had long ago shared about this very thing called SYNCHRONICITY and his statement still rings true in my ears (years?): That which is born in a moment has the quality (and imprint) of that moment...?

What a beautiful truth underlying astrology, natal horoscope and Karma, etc...?

Tropical astrologers (and sidereal ones too in different ways) have always been aware of SYNASTRY which is yet another dimension of SYNCHRONICITY?

"Nodes", I once wrote, "are like portals -- which when mesh appropriately, make it possible to connect with what other spheres contain (imagine two or more spheres orbitting and rotating and their portals synchronize?) and were meant to share? Unless the door remained shut due to one reason or another!"

Anyways, I just wished to congratulate you and encourage you to follow up the search that you fell-upon during your rahu dasa? It is not a wild-goose chase, unless you let it become so!

Love and Light,

Rohiniranjan

[saswathy]

Rohiniranjanji and Yajvanji ,
Both of you are correct , though I think , astrology and spirituality are inter connected in the initial stages . rgds .

[Rohiniranjan]

Rohiniranjanji and Yajvanji ,
Both of you are correct , though I think , astrology and spirituality are inter connected in the initial stages . rgds .

Initial, intermediate and final, in short: ALL ALONG? ;-)

Once we learn to avoid the conferences, and all that Cxxx! That confuse so many as seen, often...? ;-)

Regards,

Rohiniranjan

[Mana]

Namaste fellow Jyotiṣa,

If I might offer a few thoughts based in my current understanding of kaśmir śavism.
I hope that yajvan Ji will correct me if he feels that my understanding of either kaśmir śavism or Jyotiṣ are in any way erroneous, and I am of course fascinated to hear of any of all of your thoughts, though a grounding in kaśmir śavism is required to appreciate this particular perspective.

Vedanga Jyotiṣ is a way of life, let us suppose that all else in this field is a derivative of that. To differentiate would be ignorance, but it is also true that to be unaware of the non-differentiated nature of this form of knowledge is also ignorance; Thus we are limited by our knowledge.

The guna are prakriti, prakriti being their undifferentiated form, but what of the tattva? Surly the tattva are more important in our understanding, as our understanding is itself a creation of tattva, and in a similar fashion so is māyā; also being its self a tattva ... What a conundrum!

Please let me try to explain further: She is responsible for the environment, the way thus in which a chart unfolds or opens, often greatly influenced by that with which we interact; māyā is the tattva which leads us to believe that "I" am in control, but māyā cannot interact without the other five coverings or limitations and is as such inseparable from them ...
So back to māyā, She is our illusion of individuality very much influenced by our environment (though we don't like to admit it), that which leads us to believe in our own convictions. Yet in changing our environment, we change also the way in which our chart will be read, or unfold.
As an example of this: Jupiter exalted in 10th in America will not give the same results as Jupiter exhaled in 10th in India or in Afghanistan, māyā and the other five coverings are why this is so. This is actually more precisely an example of niyati, or the limitation of place. But it is exceedingly difficult to explain this concept without using its self as its own perspective.

These particular tattva are called ṣaṭ kaṇcukas, they are 6; they are our limitations, by which we are able to explore our own selves and self and our consequent interactions through the universe and the higher self.

To separate spirituality from Jyotiṣ is rather like separating relativity from physics; most won't notice as they have not considered the implications of relativity deeply enough to see its critical role in the nature of that. The guna are simply a coloring or result; a consequence of a higher dynamic, just as dimensions are a consequence of space. The guna differentiate, but they are not the tattva, which are the cause. manas buddhiḥ and ahaṁkāra are amongst the tattva, critical also is the way in which we differentiate time due to such interaction with these six coverings. It is through this knot, by which we come to know puruṣa, it is how that we behave due to our spiritual natures; that allow us to rise above the eddies and currents of the guna, to swim.

Kind regards.

[Mana]

Namaste,

In answer to hms and his original post, Nimita is a critical aspect of Jyotis, our charts fit together as a jigsaw, that jigsaw is fully interactive ...

For example I have been taught that although a correlation may be found between the rasi of a native and the navamsa of his /her spouse, too strong a correlation is not a good thing as one of the couple may be controlling or dominating the other too heavily for a happy relationship.

I have an example of this from a past experience of my own, though an internet forum is certainly not the place to divulge the details ...

Kind regards.

[saswathy]

Dear friends ,
The forum is meant for discussion of various aspcts of sanathana dharma , along with many other topics relavant to dharma , code of conduct , and knowledge which contributes to the fruitful spiritual sadhana . That's what I understood and astrolgy is one of the variants . Now when a chart is discussed among other things , special importance has to be given to spiritual inclination , favourable combinations for the fruition of Sadhana also according to me. When we cross maya there is no need for discussion and we are all striving to reach that state .
Secondly , when I believe , that a particular point is valid , I try to insist on that . That is in no way should be taken as an approarch of entering into srtife or debate of one up man ship . If BY any chance , I had given that impression , I apologise and submit my plea of withdrawal from the forum . rgds ls .

[Mana]

Namaste saswathy,

I have not got that impression from you; I enjoy very much your offerings here.

Kind regards.