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Thread: The significance of the Veda

  1. #11

    Re: The significance of the Veda

    Quote Originally Posted by Twilightdance View Post
    None of the above r vedic but based on much later created paddhatis based smriti and smriti related kalpa. Yes they use vedic mantras often bearing no relation to the ourpise or context of deployment.
    Actually, agni-homas are spoken of explicitly in the shruti. One such mention is the kaThopaniShad and the taitirIya braHmaNa which both refer to the nAchiketAgni which is spoken of as both a fire sacrifice and a means to attaining brahman. smRiti does play a huge role in the others, but again, those smRitis explicitly declare their authority as being based on the vedas. And, as previously mentioned, vedic mantras are chanted at these gatherings, and people explicitly understand them as such - a very clearcut way in which Veda does permeate ordinary, non-brahmin life.

    Even the kAma-sUtra of vastyAyana, a clearly materialistic text, makes reference to the authority of the veda and the four-fold goals of human life. Why refer to the veda if the veda was irrelevant to the population at large and exclusive only to brahmins? Again, this has been my point all along - Hindus have a shared reverence for the Veda which shows in the way vedic authority is invoked (even if not always correctly), and in which Vedic mantras are specifically chanted in ceremonies that would otherwise not need them. People will even go out of their way to find a brahmin who can chant the mantras very correctly. All of this is quite in keeping with the original question of how the veda affects day-to-day life of the average Hindu.
    Philosoraptor

    "Wise men speak because they have something to say. Fools speak because they have to say something." - Plato

  2. #12

    Re: The significance of the Veda

    || om namo bhagavate vAsudevAya ||

    1. A zillion Hindus chant Purusha Sukta (Rg Ved ManDaL 10) during daily pUja of VishNu/KrshNa

    2. A wonderful group i know chants Shri Sukta (Rg Ved) almost all 9 days in NavrAtra, in temples and homes. They are booked full in NavarAtra. They do so, not to gain wealth for their families, but for jagat kalyAN, sAmAjic sukh, samRddhi, shAnti, vivek (for peace, discriminating wisdom, goodness, and prosperity in society). They also attend philosophical talks on the meaning of Shri Sukta.

    3. Tomorrow, 9th March, this same wonderful group is going to chant Rudra all day while a few are going to take turns to perform hom-havan outside the temple where this will take place.

    4. This group had performed a major yadnya of 1000-something in a very pavitra (auspicious ) location of Dattatreya, and Dattatreya they believe, gave them darshan in the form of a cobra with a silver mark on the hood. This cobra lives in those premises till date. He entered the temple, and wound itself around the vigraha of TrimUrti Datta. The fearless devotees called a snake charmer so that they could decorate Him with earring-like ornaments. They did this successfully. They have an album of pictures taken.

    5. Finally, the ugam (seed) of bhakti and knowledge of Parameshwar can be seen in the Vedas! KRshNa as my antaryAmi always continues to amaze me. Here i happened to read a prologue on a bhAgvat series (book 1), where the panel of authors have shown how bhakti was hinted and prevalent in the Vedic Rshis, and i come to HDF to discover this new thread asking for diect evidence of Vedas in daily lives of Hindus! See how He paves the ground. always.

    i) "O Prabhu full of highest transcendental oppulence (paramaishwarya-sampanna), O oldest One (sarva-prAchin), eternal and everlasting Parameshwar, Supreme Lord and Controller, there is no/nobody's existence higher than Your existence in this world. Your power is absolute and the highest (sarvotpari). There is no deva as knowledgable as You, or even close. Whatever You are going to do, cannot be fathomed by those who were born yeterday, are embodied today, or will be born tomorrow. Your Personality (vyaktimatva) and Knowledge are unsurpassable and transcendental, like none other (advitiya)."
    - Rg Ved 1.65.9

    Sounds like a bhAgvatam quote doesn't it? And it says "Your Personality" !! So, Rg Veda suggests that the Supreme Absolute is a Person.

    continued ...



    continued...
    Last edited by smaranam; 08 March 2013 at 10:26 AM.
    || Shri KRshNArpaNamastu ||

  3. #13

    Re: The significance of the Veda

    || om namo bhagavate vAsudevAya ||

    continued...

    ii) "One who offers wealth with a surrendering attitude, to that oldest (sarva-prAchin), ever-young (nitya-nUtan), Creator of the universe(s), Self-born unborn VishNu, or offers/surrenders themselves, their AtmA to Him (AtmasamarpaN), one who spreads the glories of activities of that all-Worshippable (pUjanIya) VishNu (kirtanam vishNoh), that devotee and glorifier of the Supreme One attains fame and also the highest state/abode (param padam)."
    - Rg Ved 1.156.2

    Doesn't the bhAgavatam echo this ?! and also the Bhagavad GitA ?
    So what is the point?
    The point is that the VedAnta and purAN on which bhakti-yogis rely in their day-to-day sAdhanA, is completely based on the Ved-shruti. It is not fabricated texts like some unfortunately believe.

    How can the masses ignore Rg Vedic hints such as "Your Personality (vyaktimatva) is one without a second, transcendental, incomparble"

    * If someone here argues "the VishNu bhaktas make a tiny percentage of Hindus", then i request you to turn on the SanskAr TV channel and see the eternally ON bhagvat katha saptahs in crowded mandaps where the devotees are clapping and dancing on "hamAro dhana rAdhA shri rAdhA shri rAdhA, parama dhana radha radha radha radha radha..."
    OR
    "darshan de bANke bihAri (KRshNa), tuzpe mai balihAri re, sANwari suratiyA teri..."
    OR
    "Maiya ke ghara lAlo ayo re... GokuL mA lAlo ayo re..."
    alongside tattva, discussion of philosophy of the soul, dharma, history, lIlAs, and also acting out RukmiNi svayamvar,
    Govardhan pUja etc. in the same mandap - meeting ground.

    ** Similar shlok/ ruchi are found all-over Yajurved and Atharvaved bramhaNas. This shows that the Vedic worshippers (who are sometimes viewed as karmaTh) are also all about bhakti!

    ** Some gopis were personifications of Rg Ved ruchis as they constantly chanted His glories.

    ** VAsudev KRshNa (Taittariya AraNyak 19.1.6) and Devakinandana (ChhAndogya Up. 3.17.6)
    ** Matsya avatar - preaching Manu - Shatapati brAmhaN 2.2.1.1
    ** KUrma avatAr, varAha swAmi lifted the earth out of rasatAL - Taittireya BramhaN
    ** Narsimha avatAr - Tattireya AraNyak. Hints & signs in Rg Ved 8.14.13
    ** VAman avatAr : "Idam VishNurvichakrame tredhA nidhade padam" - Rg Ved 1.22.17
    ** ParshurAm - atharva ved


    6. Ved-pAThshAla have emerged, with a view to mould VedshAstris and pujAri pandits on the basis of aptitude and some prior saMskAr, nurturing. Many parents are sending there children here.

    _/\_

    om namo bhagavate vAsudevAya
    Last edited by smaranam; 08 March 2013 at 10:24 AM. Reason: Added ref. to avtArs in Ved
    || Shri KRshNArpaNamastu ||

  4. #14

    Re: The significance of the Veda

    continued...

    7. Echoing others here, about Vedic VivAh - sapta-pheri, where the mantras chanted at kanyA-dAn (giving the daughter away to the groom) are nothing but Vedic in origin. A typical Vedic marraige core vidhi lasts 2 to 4 hours, these days mostly 2. At one wedding, the panditji was explaining the meaning and significance of each step/mantra to the couple - so that they know what they are doing while taking the vows.

    8. "Munja" - upanayan is done till date by Hindus, modern or traditional, for their sons 8+

    9. House-warming (vAstu-shAnti), shAnti-pATh, and hom-havan-pUjA are performed in Hindu homes by calling the priests.
    || Shri KRshNArpaNamastu ||

  5. #15

    Re: The significance of the Veda

    10. In addition to Purusha Sukta and Shri Sukta being chanted daily/weekly in numerous households, it is very common to see regular householders going about their prapancha as usual, recite the GaNapati atharvasheersha on Chaturthi. This can be particularly seen in Maharashtra. There are people who chant it 21 times with utmost faith.

    All these three come from the vedas.


    om namo bhagavate vAsudevAya ~
    Last edited by smaranam; 09 March 2013 at 12:57 AM.
    || Shri KRshNArpaNamastu ||

  6. #16

    Re: The significance of the Veda

    Quote Originally Posted by smaranam View Post
    10. In addition to Purusha Sukta and Shri Sukta being chanted daily/weekly in numerous households, it is very common to see regular householders going about their prapancha as usual, recite the GaNapati atharvasheersha on Chaturthi. This can be particularly seen in Maharashtra. There are people who chant it 21 times with utmost faith.

    All these three come from the Rg Ved.


    om namo bhagavate vAsudevAya ~
    Please check your sources.

    Ganapathi atharvasheersha is not from the Rig-Veda. it is a 16th Century CE "late" Upanishad which claims to be part of the Atharvana Veda.

    You are correct that the Purusha Suktam and Shri Suktam are from the Rig, though again strictly speaking, the latter is not part of proper Rig veda, but is part of the khilanis (appendixes to the Rig).
    http://lokayata.info
    http://shivsomashekhar.wordpress.com/category/history/

  7. #17

    Re: The significance of the Veda

    Quote Originally Posted by shiv.somashekhar View Post
    Please check your sources.

    Ganapathi atharvasheersha is not from the Rig-Veda. it is a 16th Century CE "late" Upanishad which claims to be part of the Atharvana Veda.

    You are correct that the Purusha Suktam and Shri Suktam are from the Rig, though again strictly speaking, the latter is not part of proper Rig veda, but is part of the khilanis (appendixes to the Rig).
    yes yes yes, i actually meant to write "All three come from Rg and other Ved" , and thought i actually did write that. Then went to check where the Ganapati Atharvasheersha is from.

    Apologies. Have corrected the sentence.
    || Shri KRshNArpaNamastu ||

  8. #18

    Re: The significance of the Veda

    Namaste

    Quote Originally Posted by wundermonk View Post
    (1)The Vedas themselves claim they are the eternal with no known human origin.
    (2)Vedas lay the foundation for Karma/Reincarnation, something that all Hindus believe in.
    (3)Vedas provide scriptural evidence for the eternality of the universe - that there was no "first" creation.
    (4)Vedas deal with the "unseen". Scripture is the only epistemological source for the non-empirical.
    (5)Vedas provide the foundation for the study of philosophy which was picked up and elaborated upon by the Darshanas.
    (6)Vedas provide the foundation of what constitutes Dharma.
    Exactly. I am surprised by all the talk about irrelevance of the Vedas.

    However, to read the following points, one needs basic shraddhA.

    1. The Vedas are apaurusheya.
    2. Only the bramhaN and dvija (and perhaps men) had the authority to chant/study them.
    3. Upanishad & araNyak, as vedAnta, end of Ved, are also consequential relelvant shruti that is the conclusion of and not contradictory to the Ved.
    4. VedavyAs wrote smRti as a consequential explanation of the knowledge imparted by Ved. The upanishads, bramha-sUtra, itihas, purAN are therefore, everyone's way to access Ved.
    5. The sages, AchArya, self-realized beings have continued to study them and give us the pointers, the right knowledge.
    6. At least the Bhagavad Gita and BhAgvat mahApurAN are totally in line with the Ved and Vedanta.
    7. It would be wrong to undermine Hindus or BhAratIya, Indians in this golden period as unfamiliar or disinterested in the Gita, salvation, bhakti etc. as a significant fraction of the average educated Hindus are indeed looking into these in some form.

    This is precisely the purpose of the AUTHORITY of Ved - for those whom it is authority.
    The shrauta tradition dying out, karma kAnDa as seen by the eyes, is a natural sumptom of Kali Yug.

    In Sat Yug, people meditated and were peaceful, varNAshram was pure - many many hamsa and paramhaMsa.
    In Treta they performed Yadnya - varNAshram was intact.
    In DwApar they performed Yadnya as well as pancharatri worship. (KRshNa performed daily yadnya. King Vasudev (His father) did too. All kings did except KaMsa and His asuri friends. At the same time, there was mUrti worship. YAshoda-Nanda worshipped NArAyaN. RukmiNi, Sita visited the Gauri mandir and prayed to Her. In TretA also, Shri RAm worshipped RanganAth (VishNu). Before the war He worshipped DurgA and made a Shiv Ling of sand at Rameshwar.

    In Kali - the prescribed means are NAma saMkirtan and jap, in addition to tantric pancharatric modes which were present in DwApar.

    harer nAma harer nAma harer nAmaiva kevalam
    kalau nAsti eva nAsti eva nAsti eva gatir anyathA
    Devarshi NArad recommends Hari nAma in Kali. However, Who is the ultimate authority? Is Hari not? Is Harinam not, for example? Is it not a consequence to Ved and Ved itself? In Bhagvad Gita Chap 10, KRshNa says "Among sacrifices I am Japa yadnya"

    _/\_
    Last edited by smaranam; 09 March 2013 at 03:53 AM. Reason: Ram in TretA
    || Shri KRshNArpaNamastu ||

  9. #19
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    Re: The significance of the Veda

    Namaste all

    Quote Originally Posted by smaranam View Post
    So what is the point?
    The point is that the VedAnta and purAN on which bhakti-yogis rely in their day-to-day sAdhanA, is completely based on the Ved-shruti. It is not fabricated texts like some unfortunately believe.
    Bhāgavatam 1.2.12 says:

    tac chraddadhānā munayo
    jñāna-vairāgya-yuktayā
    paśyanty ātmani cātmānaḿ
    bhaktyā śruta-gṛhītayā

    "The seriously inquisitive student or sage, well equipped with knowledge and detachment, realizes that Absolute Truth by rendering devotional service (bhaktyā) in terms of what he has heard from the (Vedānta) śruti."

    We should know that Vaishnava practice is based even on the Rig Veda and other Vedas. Thus for instance:

    Lord Krsna's Instructions on the Process of Deity Worship, Bhāgavatam 11.27.30-31 (http://vedabase.net/sb/11/27/30-31/en) :
    "The worshiper should bathe the Deity every day, as opulently as his assets permit, using waters scented with sandalwood, uśīra root, camphor, kuńkuma and aguru. He should also chant various Vedic hymns, such as the anuvāka known as Svarṇa-gharma, the Mahāpuruṣa-vidyā, the Puruṣa-sūkta and various songs of the Sāma Veda, such as the Rājana and the Rohiṇya."

    See also regarding the offerings of food, Bhāgavatam 8.16.51-52 (http://vedabase.net/sb/8/16/51-52/en) :
    "Giving up the miserly habit of not spending money, one should arrange for the gorgeous worship of the Supreme Personality of Godhead, Viṣṇu, who is situated in the heart of every living entity. With great attention, one must prepare an oblation of grains boiled in ghee and milk and must chant the Puruṣa-sūkta mantra. The offerings of food should be of varieties of tastes. In this way, one should worship the Supreme Personality of Godhead."

    See Rig Veda 1.156.2:
    "He who brings gifts to him the Ancient and the Last, to Visnu who
    ordains, together with his Spouse, Who tells the lofty birth of him the
    Lofty One, shall verily surpass in glory e'en his peer."

    alternative translation:

    He who surrenders, dadāśati, to Vishnu, the All-pervading Godhead, and
    His Spouse
    , sumajjānaye, to the Ordainer [of all things], vedhase, to the
    Ancient one, pūrvyāya, [who was here from the beginning of creation]
    and who is ever new here, navīyase, who can express the birth of him, yo
    jātam asya bravat, and greatness of the Great, mahato mahi, he indeed
    should overgrow his kind, yujyaṃ cid abhy asat, with the inspirations of
    the higher knowledge, śravobhiḥ.”

    It is a well known fact that Vaishnavas offer food to the Lord Vishnu and glorify his pastimes and holy name. Chanting of the holy name of the Lord and celebrating his pastimes described in the Puranas are some of the most important Vaishnava practices.

    Rig Veda 7.100.1:
    “The one who brings himself to Vishnu, yo viṣṇave dāśat, Walking in the
    wide steps, urugāyāya, even if he is mortal, nū martaḥ, who wants to
    reach the Goal of Immortality, saniṣyan, he gets protected now [in this
    world], nū dayate!
    And as he offers himself with his uniting Mind, satrācā manasā yajāte, he
    gets, āvivāsāt, the power in his soul, etāvantam naryam, in accordance
    with his offer."

    Word "urugāya" means "making large strides, wide-striding" and also "the Lord, who is sung of by the great devotees" or "the Lord, who is glorified by great philosophers".

    Rig Veda 1.156.1:
    "So, Visnu, e'en the wise must swell thy song of
    praise, and he who hath oblations pay thee solemn rites."

    Rig Veda 7.100.7:
    "O Visnu, ... Let this mine offering, Sipivista,
    please thee. May these my songs of eulogy exalt thee."

    Rig Veda 7.100.5:
    "Today I praise This Name of yours, O Vishnu"


    Rig Veda 1.156.3 (translation according to Jiva Gosvami):
    āsya jānanto nāma cid vivaktan mahas te viṣṇo su-matiḿ bhajāmahe

    "O Viṣṇu, Your name is completely transcendental. Thus it is self-manifest. Indeed, even without properly understanding the glories of chanting Your holy name, if we vibrate Your name with at least a small understanding of its glories — that is, if we simply repeat the syllables of Your holy name — gradually we shall understand it."

    regards


  10. #20
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    Re: The significance of the Veda

    hari o
    ~~~~~~
    namasté


    Quote Originally Posted by wundermonk View Post
    In any case, for me,

    (1)The Vedas themselves claim they are the eternal with no known human origin.
    (2)Vedas lay the foundation for Karma/Reincarnation, something that all Hindus believe in.
    (3)Vedas provide scriptural evidence for the eternality of the universe - that there was no "first" creation.
    (4)Vedas deal with the "unseen". Scripture is the only epistemological source for the non-empirical.
    (5)Vedas provide the foundation for the study of philosophy which was picked up and elaborated upon by the Darshanas.
    (6)Vedas provide the foundation of what constitutes Dharma.
    It would be well received by the reader if you could offer the śāstra-s ( of śruti or smti ) that support these views. Note this is not a challange, but an offer that will be of value to the new reader and student that wishes to pursue this line of thought.

    iti śiva


    यतसà¥à¤¤à¥à¤µà¤‚ शिवसमोऽसि
    yatastvaṠśivasamo'si
    because you are identical with śiva

    _

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