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Thread: Thought watching

  1. #11
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    Re: Thought watching

    Namaste All

    I am typing this response just to share my humble observations on the below mentioned approach


    Quote Originally Posted by Anirudh View Post

    The solution to this is "Be conscious of everything you do". ie observe your actions continuously AND be the master of your action and not its slave.

    The moment you observe, your action as the result of the negativity you are experiencing, you will also realise that there could be better way to deal.

    At this point you are in total control of your emotions. Take actions that deemed fit. ie perform actions such that it will halt problem thats is troubling you.

    I have been sincerely 'trying' (If Ramana Maharshi were to ask who is this 'i' that is trying, then it would open up another perspective) to implement above practices in my day-to-day life. Here are my humble observations:
    1. Howsoever 'i' may try (or rather 'will') to follow these throughout the day, being aware of 'Now' (or Being) in the moment seems to be a very far away goal. To give a background, every morning I remind myself (I have a diary) to follow these tenets. This 'willed' desire stays with me for next couple of hours till the time I am at home and office work or other pressing household work doesn't capture my mind. The moment some 'urgent' (I am using word 'urgent' to capture the 'hurried' state of mind that society in today's time lives) comes up - 'my' mind goes in overdrive and simply takes over. Thereafter although i had willed to follow a certain path, 'my' mind takes control and drags me on to a path of unconscious behavior. Thus 'observing/witnessing' thoughts, emotions goes for a toss. Taming 'this' mind seems to a tall order.
    2. I have come to the conclusion that taming 'this' mind can happen only with HIS grace. My human efforts of this 'i' have taken me sofar, but not any further.
    Please share your valuable thoughts, insights and guidance

    Om Namah Shivay

  2. #12
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    Re: Thought watching

    Dear Silence_speaks,

    Wow! Your reply, is like a Ph.D thesis to me, kinda hard to follow (No harm meant). Herein I make my simple attempt to follow what you are saying:

    Quote Originally Posted by silence_speaks View Post
    Managing mind is like driving a car. So there also there are two questions.
    1. What to do when i am in an accident like situation.
    2. What should i do to avoid accident like situation.

    (2) is far more important. For (1), mindful breathing, becoming very mindful etc can be great aids. This includes observing thoughts as well.

    but for (2) one needs to inquire into the reason for the negative emotion and root out the "Seed" of negative emotions. A negative emotion strives upon an "Empty Person" - the me. If you look deeply, there is a "Person" who feels empty... and the entire emotion is built around that person. This person, the hero of this whole scene ... who is he or she ? Lets inquire a little deeply.
    Before going into the situation of the job interview, I would like to say that situations that bother me and my emotional balance the most are when facing controversies when my standing is challenged and proven wrong and when I feel disrespected without me being the reason. When I apply your logic I stated above, I arrive at the conclusion that it is either my sensitivity or my 'ego' that causes such an emotional upset in me (or a combination of both). I am not sure how to control these...

    lets take a particular case. An event took place. To take a non-controversial example, lets say i failed in a job interview or an exam... and then ... lets make a few observation ... even as i make these observations, they should be at once clear to one and all. Thats the beauty of vedantic teaching, its a "darshana shastra" ... a scripture that conveys a vision... So Lets see ...

    Observation1: Even if the event took place, unless i am aware of it, i cannot suffer. Without corresponding thoughts, i cannot suffer. So suffering is in mind, not "out there", in the external situation.
    I understand and agree with the above. Whenever a pain causing event of any harm happens, it is ultimately the mind that causes the pain to manifest in us, and there may be some to whom the same event may not cause the same reaction, showing 'mind is everything' and that 'pain is not existing in the external situation'.

    Observation2: The first thought corresponding to the event is just the information about the event. Its simple thought like "I failed in the test".

    Observation 3: what is the next thought ? "what next for me ?" , "what will i do now ", "I am ruined" !!

    The first thought is a mere information about the event... its called "idam vritti" , or "this thought". Pure perception.

    The next few thoughts have an "i" in them ... they are called "aham vrittis" or "I thoughts".

    So now ... lets ask a question: "is the "I" of the first aham vritti same as the "I" of the second aham vritti" ?
    Answer: No. Idam vritti is clearly not aham vrittis, as per your explanation given above.

    Observation 4: The first thought arises, and dies and then there is the second thought. So the "I" of the first thought and the "I" of the second thought are discontinuous. They are like discontinuous dots...
    but there seems to be a continuous "I" thats hurt.
    Where is this "I" ?
    No thought can be "I" !!
    So where is the "I"!

    its like a series of static pictures , one after the other creating the illusion of a continuous entity. A series of "I" thoughts create an illusion of a continuous "I" who is hurt.

    in reality there is this body, which is mute to the events. There is the Awareness which is untouched too... and a few thoughts flow in between ... like disjoint dots ... if at all the dots are seen as connected ... like a rope or a snake ... its merely due to our attention...
    So are you saying, we have a capacity to put a stop to the 'I' thinking at some point, without the mind leading its way to 'I' of a different situation and nature...? I am not understanding the application of your above stated thought.

    Thanks,

    Viraja
    jai hanuman gyan gun sagar jai kapis tihu lok ujagar

  3. #13
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    Re: Thought watching

    Quote Originally Posted by grames View Post
    Dear Ji.,

    All of us are blessed with one great power but we don't recognize and utilize it and that is "Will power"

    When your mind, thoughts are engaged by means of Sadhana with positive things, there is no room or scope for negative thoughts. ( So why it is called Sadhana). If you read the book of Krshna daily 5 pages as a practice, initially the joy and pleasure will last for few seconds to minutes. This is due to the resistance of our mind that won't allow you to sustain the pleasure. Continue the Krshna katha reading and you will see the duration of joy extending beyond few min to even some hrs. If you get a company of another devotee, that's the ultimate price as the company doubles the joy.

    What i am trying to say is, "willingly" what you feed to your mind is what it is going to reflect. If you feed Prema, you are going to reflect only Prema. If you feed horror, negative and abusive thoughts as food to mind, it will also reflect the same. Mind also require a "Strict" and regulated diet - of thoughts!

    So make a choice!

    Hare Krshna!
    Thank you, Grames ji! So you are saying if I were to practice sadhana of feeding pure thoughts on god all the waking hours of the day, then at some point I will be able to tame my mind? Wow, that's so hard... I will try!
    jai hanuman gyan gun sagar jai kapis tihu lok ujagar

  4. #14

    Re: Thought watching

    Dear Viraja ji,
    Namsthe!

    Nice to see you going through my whole reply.
    lets take the example you have given:

    Before job interview , i am tensed.
    The entire tension is centered around a "Person" ... this person is the "hero" of that tension story.

    And this person is "ur" creation. U created it by stringing together a collection of "I" thoughts.... like this:

    I need to be careful.
    what will they ask me?
    how will i handle if they ask me "this " question ?
    I have still a lot to learn ...

    you have connected the "I"'s of all these aham vritti's !!

    This person ... upon whom the tension is centered ... do you see this person clearly ?

    Resolve that person in your Awareness !!

    ---> Do you get this advice ? Its pretty much the be all and end all of vedanta, if u get it !!

    Love!
    Silence
    Come up, O Lions, and shake off the delusion that you are a sheep

  5. #15

    Re: Thought watching

    Namaste

    Quote Originally Posted by silence_speaks View Post
    lets take the example you have given:
    Before job interview , i am tensed.
    The entire tension is centered around a "Person" ... this person is the "hero" of that tension story.
    and is trying hard to maintain an image of what the person is not.

    what will they ask me?
    They will ask what they have decided to ask. If I can answer spontaneously, I am a good fit. If I cannot, what is there to regret? It may [or may not ]mean I am not a good fit. In which case what am I doing here? Why bother to be in a wrong place? Why struggle?

    how will i handle if they ask me "this " question ?
    I will handle it as per available prakruti. What is the big deal?

    I have still a lot to learn ...
    Then learn.

    you have connected the "I"'s of all these aham vritti's !!

    This person ... upon whom the tension is centered ... do you see this person clearly ?

    Resolve that person in your Awareness !!
    Yes, this created person wants to please, be what they may not be, and hence the tension. If I am just myself, the interview does not remain an interview. It becomes a collaborative two way discussion between 2 parties. Both parties have to ask questions. The interviewer also lays the cards open on the table. This is what we have. Will you be able to do it?
    It is as simple as that.
    If I just use common sense and dress with an attitude of respect for the other that is good enough.

    Why the tension? The interviewer is myself. Just as I am seeking the right job or project or whatever, they are also facing the challenge of finding the right candidate or resource.

    Similarly, the person being unreasonable, unfair, mean, is also facing the challenge of KAliyA's hoods (read : ego). Who is that other person? Just another you. Just a child. Vatsa.

    ---> Do you get this advice ? Its pretty much the be all and end all of vedanta, if u get it !!

    Love!
    Silence
    Yes, but I would still say that this will come eventually when you live with IshTa BhagavAn, the Higher self, AtmA, antaryAmi, whatever way you see Him, day in and day out, let Him hold your hand, let Him pull you out of the quick sand. You cannot pull yourself out. If not in this life, then this has to have happened in a previous life.
    Last edited by smaranam; 19 October 2014 at 12:04 AM.
    || Shri KRshNArpaNamastu ||

  6. #16

    Re: Thought watching

    Quote Originally Posted by smaranam View Post
    Why the tension? The interviewer is myself. Just as I am seeking the right job or project or whatever, they are also facing the challenge of finding the right candidate or resource.

    Similarly, the person being unreasonable, unfair, mean, is also facing the challenge of KAliyA's hoods (read : ego). Who is that other person? Just another you. Just a child. Vatsa.
    THIS is seeing a rope as a rope and not unnecessarily thinking it is a snake. Many associate this rope-snake with Adi ShankarAchArya but really it is given in Upanishads and Shrimad BhAgavat Canto 11.


    Yes, but I would still say that this will come eventually when you live with IshTa BhagavAn, the Higher self, AtmA, antaryAmi, whatever way you see Him, day in and day out, let Him hold your hand, let Him pull you out of the quick sand. You cannot pull yourself out. If not in this life, then this has to have happened in a previous life.
    Only one person on this thread mentioned KRshNa KathA and I would say that is hitting the nail on the head. Filling up with KRshNa prema takes care of the rest, diminishes those tiny issues to zero. Very true.

    Even then I am surprised to hear that reading the KRshNa book is a sAdhanA.
    Honestly? Does one need will power to read KRshNa KathA? I thought you need will power to put the book down!

    Why not take KRshNa with you everywhere? Everyone talks about sAdhanA, will, tapsyA, discipline. Do you really need sAdhanA to live with the Lord of the heart?

    govinda govinda govinda
    radhe radhe radhe govinda
    radhe radhe
    radhe radhe
    radhe radhe govinda
    Last edited by smaranam; 19 October 2014 at 12:19 AM. Reason: with, not to
    || Shri KRshNArpaNamastu ||

  7. #17

    Re: Thought watching

    Dear Smaranam ji,
    Namasthe!

    Why not take KRshNa with you everywhere? Everyone talks about sAdhanA, will, tapsyA, discipline. Do you really need sAdhanA to live with the Lord of the heart?
    Because where is he not that one has to take him with oneself ! Right now, here ... you are already immersed in him ... swallowed by him. Where are you in the first place ? Mira says : "the lane of love is very narrow, when i am, Krishna is not, where Krishna is, i am not" ! Really Krishna alone IS, I never am!!

    The language of advaita is no different:
    This body is like a room ... inside there is space, awareness. The body is jada, lifeless and awareness is untouched ! inbetween a few thoughts float about ... where is the "I" ??

    Awareness alone IS!! Even when we speak of body its a relative proposition.

    That said, .... a small remark:

    you have taken the example in an entirely different direction. The example was to illustrate a point ... not a lecture on how to handle an interview !
    [no a lighter note: i will surely consult you before going for my next interview, you have some interesting observations].

    its not about maintaining an image of a person who one is not !!
    its about the image of a person ... any image is not me !! i am not just talking about the imposter! There is no Person !! No entity.



    Love!
    Silence
    Come up, O Lions, and shake off the delusion that you are a sheep

  8. #18
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    Re: Thought watching

    Smaranam Ji.,

    How are you? Good to read your message and "do one need will power to read Krshna katha" Only a Bhakth can ask such question and interesting fact is that, even if we buy the book it takes ages before we turn the first page and forget about starting reading and then understanding the mellow.

    Like Viraja ji said, its "hard", difficult and we have so many negative judgement and prejudices about simple solution. Wondered why we have such a challenge to recognize the very Krshna who is everywhere, with us, with in us and all over the place and go through the negative hyper association?

    Instead of finding the limits of negative or what is not positive, i strongly believe and also recommend that only the ocean of bliss can be the best remedy and stepping in to that ocean is the best medicine.

    Hare Krshna

  9. #19

    Re: Thought watching

    Namaste Silence
    Quote Originally Posted by silence_speaks View Post
    Because where is he not that one has to take him with oneself ! Right now, here ... you are already immersed in him ... swallowed by him. Where are you in the first place ? Mira says : "the lane of love is very narrow, when i am, Krishna is not, where Krishna is, i am not" ! Really Krishna alone IS, I never am!!
    Yes, of course, but that statement above was not addressing advaita. That was for the devotees who do see themselves as different. In that case, being aware of KRshNa walking by your side is appropriate. The context was, that that One, KRshNa will pull "you" out of the quicksand. Then, these messages will make sense.

    you have taken the example in an entirely different direction. The example was to illustrate a point ... not a lecture on how to handle an interview !
    Oh but it helped to demonstrate how a rope can be taken as a snake on a certain plane. If the interviewer is ultimately nobody but AtmA, both parties are puppets really, who are simply going through the mechanical emotions, doing what they have to do. Then there is no fence, other side of the fence, us Vs them, enemies and friends, it is all one.

    [no a lighter note: i will surely consult you before going for my next interview, you have some interesting observations].


    its not about maintaining an image of a person who one is not !!
    its about the image of a person ... any image is not me !! i am not just talking about the imposter! There is no Person !! No entity.
    There is one entity, Brahman' . Everyone else is an imposter or a superimposition in any case. However,the "be yourself" message was more targeted towards a layman's perspective. "Being yourself" means accepting prakRtI as it is, whatever is, is. Ke sara sara. PrakRti is the nature of Brahman. Very natural, and Brahman is innocent.

    Hare KRshNa
    Last edited by smaranam; 19 October 2014 at 12:22 PM.
    || Shri KRshNArpaNamastu ||

  10. #20

    Re: Thought watching

    Hare KRshNa! Gramesji, it was nice to read your message about KRshNa prema and kathA. Hari kathA me dUb jAo.

    Quote Originally Posted by grames View Post
    Instead of finding the limits of negative or what is not positive, i strongly believe and also recommend that only the ocean of bliss can be the best remedy and stepping in to that ocean is the best medicine.

    Hare Krshna
    Absolutely. No point in sorting things into groups. Just dive in.

    Hari bol
    || Shri KRshNArpaNamastu ||

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