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Thread: define Self Realization and Moksha

  1. #31
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    Re: define Self Realization and Moksha

    Namaste
    Quote Originally Posted by Anirudh View Post

    Thanks for the clarification. The Nara Naaraayan view is intellectually satisfying for the moment. No one in this present lifestyle can gain the complete knowledge. Your reply is like a lamp in my path. When we travel in dark, we dont see the potholes. And when some one lights up a lamp, we see path along with potholes. And those payholes raise many more questions.

    Thanks for taking time to light up the lamp in my path.
    Glad to have helped you in this.
    You've quoted verses from the Gita that truly speak of Arjuna as a self-realized person in this thread. Do not doubt your own judgment if you're sure that you have good arguments and understanding. Just because someone tells you something that is contrary to your own judgment does not mean that you are wrong and others are always right. It will always be so. You'll always have something to say and then someone would impose an attitude contrary to yours. Many times so far we've seen that here on HDF. If you are sure that your attitude is based on good arguments you should not step down.
    I know you said that you're still a beginner and you learn, but this does not mean that your own judgment and knowledge are wrong and always need to question (doubting) yourself. Let Bhagavad gita, vaishnavas and Lord help you in your learning and your spiritual life with "the shining lamp of knowledge".
    As Lord Krishna says in the Bhagavad gita:

    BG 10.9: The thoughts of My pure devotees dwell in Me, their lives are fully devoted to My service, and they derive great satisfaction and bliss from always enlightening one another and conversing about Me.

    BG 10.10: To those who are constantly devoted to serving Me with love, I give the understanding by which they can come to Me.

    BG 10.11: To show them special mercy, I, dwelling in their hearts, destroy with the shining lamp of knowledge the darkness born of ignorance.



    -----------
    Bhagavad gita quotes see at http://vedabase.net/bg/10/en


    regards

  2. #32
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    Re: define Self Realization and Moksha

    hariḥ oṁ
    ~~~~~~
    namasté

    There are 6 ~classical~ schools¹ within sanātana dharma . This therefore suggests there just may be 6 views of Self-Realization. I did not see these 6 views ( or more) called out in the posts above. It seems to me, if one wishes to get a bird's eye view of this realization a brief description of 'realization' from these schools ( and perhaps one additional one ) would be in order.

    If there is interest in this we can pursue it.

    ... if you do not know where you are going, then any road will take you there.

    iti śivaṁ




    1. The 6 referred to here are :
    • śāṁkhya
    • yoga
    • vedānta (sometimes called uttarā mīmāṃsā)
    • mīmāṃsā
    • nyāya
    • vaiśeṣika
    Last edited by yajvan; 04 October 2014 at 06:43 PM.
    यतस्त्वं शिवसमोऽसि
    yatastvaṁ śivasamo'si
    because you are identical with śiva

    _

  3. #33
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    Re: define Self Realization and Moksha

    hariḥ oṁ
    ~~~~~~
    namasté

    Quote Originally Posted by yajvan View Post
    There are 6 ~classical~ schools within sanātana dharma . This therefore suggests there just may be 6 views of Self-Realization. I did not see these 6 views ( or more) called out in the posts above. The 6 referred to here are :
    • śāṁkhya
    • yoga
    • vedānta (sometimes called uttarā mīmāṃsā)
    • mīmāṃsā
    • nyāya
    • vaiśeṣika
    I have read that up to 22 schools were prevalent around the time of gautama buddha (~560 BCE). My line of sight are to some 16 darśana-s of Indian philosophy. Mādhava-ji, we know as madhvācārya ( 14th century) calls out 16 in his work sarvadarśanasaṅgraha¹. Before him there was a work called sarvadarśanasiddhāntasaṅgraha¹from the school of śaṃkara ( 10th century) calling out about 13.

    On occasion one ~school~ considered is haṭha yoga. If we look a bit deeper this school suggests it is more of a 'prep school' for another. If we look to the haṭhayogapradīpikā offered by svātmārāma , we find the following:

    atha haṭhayogapradīpikā |
    śrīādināthāya namo'stu tasmai yenopadiṣṭā haṭhayogavidyā |
    vibhrājate pronnatarājayogamāroḍhumicchoradhirohiṇīva ||1

    This says, without over-indulging in the roots of each word:
    Now then (atha), shedding the light (pradīpikā) on haṭha yoga.
    Salutations to that most auspicious, most high Lord by whom this haṭhayoga knowledge (haṭhayoga-vidyā) has been taught.
    It shines forth a path for that native who wishes to ascend (āroha) to the level (pronnata) of rājayoga ||

    So, where do we find this rājayoga ? It is the offering of patañjali’s yogadarśana; some call this aṣṭāṅga yoga , or the 8 fold yoga. It is the items we find in yama and niyama within this prakaraa¹ ( treaty);most know it as the yoga-sutra-s.

    The point that is offered is many schools work in concert with other schools to advance the native further. Like in the ~classical~ 6 listed above, here is their cooperation:
    • śāṁkhya + yoga
    • vedānta (sometimes called uttarā mīmāṃsā) + mīmāṃsā
    • nyāya + vaiśeṣika
    Then when we look to the 3 groups of 2, we will see their alignment to the unfoldment of the individual. There we will find the following when it comes to the orientation of liberation...
    • kaivalya - isolation
    • kevala - one; uncompounded , unmingled
    • aparvaga - coming to an end; completion
    • vipramokṣa - release; deliverance from
    • avadhūta - one who has shaken of worldly obligations
    • pūrṇapātrapratibhaṭa - fullness or a full vessel i.e. overflowing , supreme
    What are these terms above ? They are some of the ideas offered within the various schools on the attributes of mokṣa (liberation).
    Some schools see liberation as the absence of pain and therefore the absence of pleasure ; others see it as wholeness; others see it as full of bliss.

    Other schools suggest full liberation ( its full blossoming) comes after the body drops; and others think, don't even bother - be as happy as you can while here as this is all that there is as you and SELF are none other then the body ( this is not part of any of the schools I mentioned above so far, but again , a point of view offered by one school).

    Yet within the various views it is how one is associated with the Supreme. Is one non-different ? Different but in union ? Or completely different yet at the feet of the Supreme to adore and serve Him/Her to the best of one's ability ? This is the ultimate question of what finally occurs mokṣa.
    But, one must be aware too that within this entrance of mokṣa there are levels of expansion; It is said real growth begins with the realization of one's own Self ( their core being) - then higher levels of unfoldment are possible and the relationship to the Supreme, the universe and all creation takes on more relevance of truth ( or sattā) i.e. code for no more guessing on what is and what is not.

    IMHO it is one's duty to get the picture that makes sense to them; like a mosaic of tiles that are assembled to finally form the picture, the full view.






    iti śivaṁ
    words
    • sarvadarśanasaṅgraha = sarva+darśana+saṅ +graha ; sarva = all + darśana = view or ~ philosophy~ san = bestow , distribute, gain + graha = understanding or taking up. So this is taking up and offering the understanding of all the various schools or philosophies
    • sarvadarśanasiddhāntasaṅgraha = same as above yet siddha is used to suggest the perfections, what is gained, or the objective of the various schools
    • prakaraa = treatment, discussion , explanation; treaty, book
    • grantha = stringing together; treatise , literary production
    Last edited by yajvan; 04 October 2014 at 08:12 PM.
    यतस्त्वं शिवसमोऽसि
    yatastvaṁ śivasamo'si
    because you are identical with śiva

    _

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