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Thread: Question about "heavy ocean on top of me" situation

  1. #41
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    Re: Question about "heavy ocean on top of me" situation

    Quote Originally Posted by MarkMe View Post
    Well I just love Brahman...

    For me, it has been the best description I could muster. Like total immersion, or swimming in some kind of bliss-fluid; swimming on the inside and out; like falling (or plunging) completely into all-bliss-fluid.

    Edit-add: Many years ago, there were moments - a number of occasions of falling out of myself, and into some transcendent place, or point of perspective. In this incident, I should say, it was as if (the above) came into me, and I was totally immersed in it.

    Dear MarkMe,

    Went through your writings repeatedly to comprehend its contents.

    Though it is beautifully conveyed, the requirement remains incomprehensible.

    -------------
    -------------

    While it is true that there are references elsewhere in wisdom writings to the long number of years of discipline in the form of meditation or study that should precede the attainment of higher wisdom, it is not the quantity of the actual time required but of the qualitative content of the wisdom , when it comes, if at all.

    The Absolute asserts itself in a different fashion; it is not a slow evolutionary process, but an overwhelming experience in one’s own life.

    When the result of 5+5 is seen in mechanistic fashion it is 6, 7, 8, 9, and then comes the sum number 10, but the result is so spontaneous in mathematics and it comes from natural feelings without constraint.

    Upanishads, the ancient of the Indian scriptures, uses the latter methodology, replacing the numbers by ‘The Word’.

    -------------
    -------------

    Mark wrote: Is there no place in dharma philosophy for earthly satisfaction without enlightenment?

    Yes, if one asks so.

    Our life is the very expression of the divine, and as such is to be exalted rather than transcended. Where spiritual novices try to kill off their own desires, the Seers want us re-attune ourselves to the ‘unmoved-mover’ which is the source of the ‘pure-act’, shimmering at the heart of every aspect of life, including our needs and desires.

    The way the Absolute manifests is through each individual desire. In the desire we can see the mark of the Absolute. So all desires are to be seen in the Absolute, and the Absolute is to be seen in each desire.

    It may be just the eye caressing a flower or the finger giving a tender touch of loving care, but we should be able to see in it the coming together of the essence of our life with the totality. The individual essence and the cosmic essence merge into one another. What pulls these two together is desire again, an endearment; but it is that which brings us to the ultimate perfection.

    However, of all earthy pleasures for human beings and other animals, the one that most excels is when a couple is in the deep embrace of love, experiencing organic ecstasy.

    But the scriptures say that experience is as nothing compared to the coupling of the cream of our intellect with the Self in the cosmic embrace. When that happens it is as if we have all embraces of the world. We are in eternal union. It is this eternal union with the Self that we should see reflected in all other forms of embrace. Love


    These aren't left unnoticed:

    I have a fear of not being able to handle the energy of it.


    if it was not on top of me but in me then perhaps I would explode, and so I have been trying to avoid getting into this situation.


    It involved what seemed like a new, joyous self coming into the body and having to learn to work the arms and legs, but, that ocean of bliss experience ended.


    I felt that I knew what had happened - that my previous first-person was gone - *poof*.
    What else do you do? Remove the "I' from when you speak?


    For the past 3 years, I have enjoyed some kind of a lack of internal pain, but not, as you point out, some kind of I. It has been like I lost something, and I have not known what.


    I must ask, I made the point about 'I' and language. For example, you start by saying, "I get the feeling...", and this strikes me as an example of how it seems to me there is no way to avoid this when communicating. I recall being told such concessions would have to be made to communicate. How do you feel about this?


    And I think it is an interesting point as to the loss of some part or kind of ego, but clearly not some other part or kind. I am struck by the level of permanent relative satisfaction, as combined with an ongoing "I" experience, as I recognize NOW, seemingly at some other level than before. At this point, it just does not occur the same, or have the same implications. It is as if there is some level of a lack of conflict and a persistent satisfaction which does not include the loss of ego-I.


    That means, ego-I is completely lost, which is equivalent to ignorance, because


    there have been fears of a couple of things. One is a fear of turning to God and losing the need to complete the project which began 13 years ago. The other has been to not be able to handle a higher energy, as characterized by the experiences of being crushed by some great weight. I have some fears on the idea of developing further.


    That is fascinating to me, and very reassuring to me that I am not isolated there. For me, it was in the center of the sphere of the head (center between the front of the ears), and it was the first time I had a feeling in that location. Since that time, there have been occasions of some kind of beam of energy from there to the top of my head, but no sense beyond that. It seemed like the shape of a flashlight beam, and to have an obvious need to continue past the physical head, and that perhaps I had no sense of the ethereal beyond that, and only the physical part was in the domain of my perception.


    And I am experiencing the body - no doubts there. I feel physical pain, and I don't like the way that that feels. I would choose to get out of that. I like tasty, nutritious food, and I think and act out fears. I don't see how all of this is possible according to a strict definition of some greater existence. I think I'm full of crappy programming/habits; I would prefer not to be. I fear being held back by not being clean enough (like the smoking).


    That reminds me of what I said posting here – “afraid of not handling the energy”. A fear of what may be the big, final loss of self, in my case, in the form of a physical manifestation of mental anxiety, which in my experience can be very tricky stuff. Actually, since I had a spell of beyond, it turns out to be a blessing that helps support the simple understanding of, “What energy? I did that already”.


    And I come to see that because the blissful experience lasted for only a couple of hours and then ended, that I put this as somehow being rejected to continue to have it, or that I was not worthy of it, so that was how I interpreted it, therefore; I probably became afraid of not being worthy of any higher self or existence.
    ॐ इदम् न मम
    be just l we happy

  2. #42

    Re: Question about "heavy ocean on top of me" situation

    Quote Originally Posted by brahman View Post
    Dear MarkMe,

    Went through your writings repeatedly to comprehend its contents.

    Though it is beautifully conveyed, the requirement remains incomprehensible.
    I apologize, and I don't know why.

    ...

    Mark wrote: Is there no place in dharma philosophy for earthly satisfaction without enlightenment?

    Yes, if one asks so.

    Our life is the very expression of the divine, and as such is to be exalted rather than transcended. Where spiritual novices try to kill off their own desires, the Seers want us re-attune ourselves to the ‘unmoved-mover’ which is the source of the ‘pure-act’, shimmering at the heart of every aspect of life, including our needs and desires.

    The way the Absolute manifests is through each individual desire. In the desire we can see the mark of the Absolute. So all desires are to be seen in the Absolute, and the Absolute is to be seen in each desire.

    It may be just the eye caressing a flower or the finger giving a tender touch of loving care, but we should be able to see in it the coming together of the essence of our life with the totality. The individual essence and the cosmic essence merge into one another. What pulls these two together is desire again, an endearment; but it is that which brings us to the ultimate perfection.

    However, of all earthy pleasures for human beings and other animals, the one that most excels is when a couple is in the deep embrace of love, experiencing organic ecstasy.

    But the scriptures say that experience is as nothing compared to the coupling of the cream of our intellect with the Self in the cosmic embrace. When that happens it is as if we have all embraces of the world. We are in eternal union. It is this eternal union with the Self that we should see reflected in all other forms of embrace. Love
    Yes, I think I can see that.

    One great source of surprise for me over the past 3 years has been a combination of two things.
    1) The satisfaction I have experienced and the sense of being done with trying to solve a puzzle, which seemed pretty distinct. Maybe I kid myself.
    2) The other experience of bliss.
    The combination has put these as two separate things, and I was always guessing that they would be one thing. The learning that seems to come with this has been to understand that while 1) it seems like something changed, which I've written about, 2) it was not what I thought it was.

    And getting back to what I think I can see in your writing, is the expression of desire in my bearing and which way I am facing. I look at this body/mind and say that I want use it and face the world and participate in it. There will be plenty of bliss and all of this when this life is done.

    So, really, I could say that has meant figuring out what to do next, or I could say that this is not figuring out what to do, but rather, that this is doing what is desired to do.

  3. #43
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    Re: Question about "heavy ocean on top of me" situation

    Quote Originally Posted by MarkMe View Post
    1) The satisfaction I have experienced and the sense of being done with trying to solve a puzzle, which seemed pretty distinct. Maybe I kid myself.
    2) The other experience of bliss.
    Dear MarkMe,

    Pain germinates fear, pleasure brings satisfaction and hope.

    Of these two major propensities, fear and hope, it is fear that dominates both conscious and subconscious mind.

    Hope arises from that stratum of existence which is truth itself- that is the blissful Self. Hope asserts itself again and again as the will to live, the will to seek, and the will to actualize. Actualization of the highest possible values, or the realization of the Self, dispels fear.

    As an example, the experience of perfect love does indeed “cast out of fear.”

    Quote Originally Posted by MarkMe View Post

    So, really, I could say that has meant figuring out what to do next, or I could say that this is not figuring out what to do, but rather, that this is doing what is desired to do.
    The highest form of happiness is not any kind of excitement, as in the case of pleasure, but total Fearlessness.

    All self-realized people are fearless, and fearlessly accept what life brings to them.


    When Jesus was about to go to the houses of the high priests of Jerusalem, his disciple Peter was afraid of his safety. Peter envisioned the great tragedy that was awaiting Jesus if he should go. With good intentions he dissuaded him, but Jesus was not any less aware of the sinister intentions of the high priests and King Herod. Despite this knowledge Jesus said to Peter,

    “Satan, get thee behind.”

    We are not just engaged in theorizing.

    To become established in fearlessness in all the four modified states of consciousness is another way of stating the main Goal. Love

    ॐ इदम् न मम
    be just l we happy

  4. #44

    Re: Question about "heavy ocean on top of me" situation

    One may also be wary of the problems associated with "hope" as it is commonly used among persons of, for example, American religious culture. In this case, the problem is the fear side of hope, or of the lining of hope actually being a fear of what is hoped for not being true. To contrast against this, I have tended to use the term "aspire" in place of "hope", and I think "fear" will function effectively as an opposite to that.

    ----------------------

    I have enjoyed bringing my thoughts and experiences here, to have these things batted back off of different sources and perspectives. It is my position that something like a "human ego" has been destroyed - not a larger one, and which should not be confused with supreme absorption, where I think absolute supreme absorption tends to be the ultimate goal of dharma schools. It has received my highest respect and acknowledgment. I also think the Supreme will be there forever, and for whenever I get around to facing the other way.

    I have chosen, at this time in my life, to direct myself toward completion of a project of earthly endeavor. I am not facing in - facing God, at this time. I may, however, put part of my effort in this direction (and experience its gentle reminders). When this project is sufficiently complete, then I can only imagine that it will become my central goal to face in.

    To anyone who has participated, I would like to thank you for your time, and your consideration in this volume of exchange, and for all of the effort involved.

    - MarkMe
    Last edited by MarkMe; 06 June 2013 at 09:32 AM.

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