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Thread: Looking for chaos ?

  1. #1
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    Looking for chaos ?

    hariḥ oṁ
    ~~~~~~
    namasté

    If I use the word chaos most will know what it means… it infers and suggests confusion, dis-order, without pattern. Yet if we take a look at the ~original~ use from the Greeks this word meant ‘gaping void’ ; it comes from their word khaos – that which gapes wide open, vast, empty.

    So, one must ask what then is the word the Greeks used for disorder ? It is tarakhe. Perhaps the connection with ‘taraha’ meaning ‘a thing deducted or rejected, that which is thrown away’ is possible but that would take me too far off course.

    It seems interesting to me that the saṃskṛt term tara, meaning carrying across or beyond , is within these word meanings. The term tāraka means causing or enabling to pass or go over , carrying over , rescuing , liberating.

    So the question becomes , is one ~crossing over~ the confusion ( chaos) or is one being delivered to a condition where there is no confusion or dis-order ? being delivered to the vastness ?


    We may get a hint from one of the 10 qualities of śrī devī (sometimes referred to as the daśa mahāvidyā-s). This would be tara. Tara from a graha (jyotish) orientation is jupiter, or guru. Guru is most auspicious and rules the tattva of ākāśa or pure space. Here we easily see the alignment to chaos and its original meaning. Tara's name comes from the root tṛṛ to traverse, carry over, or to save. And tara is then surpassing, conquering, crossing , passing.


    Let’s go one more step. Tārā is a fixed star, some call asterism which symbolizes light. And a boat is called tarī, used for carrying and crossing. So when we add this up we have tara as light that guides, that carries over, crossing ( traverses) and conquering. But what is this tara carrying and crossing over to?


    Tara takes the individual and carries him/her over saṁsāra (sṛ= to flow + saṁ = join together) or life-after-life, birth-after-birth. The process of returning to this good earth again and again until mokśa is considered and experienced. She is the light that guides, the one that assists in crossing or carrying over.

    We find this notion also in the ṛg veda. (Out of tradition and respect it is proper to list the ṛṣi, meter, etc.) The rishi (ṛṣi) is kutsaḥ añgirasaḥ , the meter is gāyatri and the deva is agni.
    1.97.7
    dvisho no vishvatomukka ati nāveva pāraya |
    O agni whose face is on all sides ( face turned everywhere), take us beyond the foes like a ship (across a river)
    1.97.8
    sa naḥ sindhumiva nāvayā ati parṣhā svastaye |
    you lead us like a ship across the ocean, to the supreme station that lies beyond our foes.


    Since tara is connected with knowledge & with space (as a quality of Jupiter/guru), She is connected with sound, vibration, as space is the home of sound-vibration. We all know of this most auspicious sound aum, om औम् (some prefer ॐ) and is called praṇava¹. This is the bījā (seed) sound for tara. Hence tara is the eternal word or nitya (constant and indispensable) vak (speech or voice) sound.


    Now we have the words of tara, tāraka, taraha, chaos, and om …. Is there a common thread? Perhaps the common thread for these from the human point of view is nirvāa – blown out, extinguished, absolute extinction or annihilation (~ śūnya~). How so ? what is the connection ?


    iti śivaṁ

    1. praṇava प्रणव - the syllable; aum , om औम्some like ॐ; for more discussion on this see HDF post http://www.hindudharmaforums.com/showpost.php?p=18487&postcount=8
    यतस्त्वं शिवसमोऽसि
    yatastvaṁ śivasamo'si
    because you are identical with śiva

    _

  2. #2
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    Re: Looking for chaos ?

    hariḥ oṁ
    ~~~~~~
    namasté

    If one agrees that chaos = ‘gaping void’ , coming from the word khaos – that which gapes wide open, vast, empty – then
    what of cosmos ? Cosmos is from the Latin word kosmos meaning to order, good order, orderly arrangement. Hence the universe (cosmos) is seen as an orderly system predicated upon an orderly arrangement. How are they connected ?

    An arrangement of anything cannot take place without the space for this to occur in… hence chaos. We also can infer chaos = avakāśa which means ‘to make room’; and this avakāśa must also be viśva or all-pervading ,all-containing , omnipresent.

    We are told by science that within an atom , most of it is just empty space¹. We then are just empty space as is the rest of the universe…
    Yet we perceive and look for ‘solid’; we miss the appreciation of space.

    I am told to consider the following… that the material in the universe that first begins with the fundamental element is hydrogen. It is
    the essential building block of our stars from which we came ( the ~furnaces~ to make all the other elements). Yet it is the compression ( or condensation) of empty space until it forms this matter, until it takes shape as matter. It is the leap from the perfect gap of vastness ( chaos) that becomes cosmos – the beginning order of things.

    Hence this chaos and cosmos are tightly related… This is the thing I have been pondering for some time. That leap from nothingness to something-ness. If I were from the śāṁkhya school of thought it would how puruṣa becomes prakrti but does not really change as the original material is still there ( like water becoming ice).

    Now I have not come the final destination on this notion in my mind as look for direct experience to have 100% confidence this idea bears merit. Is the possible ? Yes, say the wise.
    My teacher talked of (pure) intelligence becoming intelligent. The move from perfect infinite possibility to more of a locality of applied intelligence in nature and throughout the universe. He called it creative intelligence. In and of itself it enjoys the making of diversity.

    iti śivaṁ

    1.Empty space: 99.9999999999996% - see this site: http://education.jlab.org/qa/how-much-of-an-atom-is-empty-space.html
    यतस्त्वं शिवसमोऽसि
    yatastvaṁ śivasamo'si
    because you are identical with śiva

    _

  3. #3
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    Re: Looking for chaos ?

    Quote Originally Posted by yajvan View Post
    1.97.7
    dvisho no vishvatomukka ati nāveva pāraya |
    O agni whose face is on all sides ( face turned everywhere), take us beyond the foes like a ship (across a river)
    सुप्रभातम्,

    अलिखस्तेनशब्देन (मुक्क) किम्। तत् शब्दः (मुक्क/मुक्कु) अन्यभारतस्यभाषायां "मुष्टिः" वा "नासिका" प्रोक्तम्। अत्र लिखेस्त्वं "मुख" वरम्।

    ॥ॐ नमो भगवते वासुदेवाय॥
    படைபோர் புக்கு முழங்கும்அப் பாஞ்சசன்னியமும் பல்லாண்டே
    May your pA~nchajanya shankha which reverberates on the battlefield, last thousands upon thousands of years...
    http://archives.mirroroftomorrow.org...anchajanya.jpg

  4. #4
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    Re: Looking for chaos ?

    hariḥ oṁ
    ~~~~~~
    namasté


    Quote Originally Posted by Jaskaran Singh View Post
    सुप्रभातम्,

    अलिखस्तेनशब्देन (मुक्क) किम्। तत् शब्दः (मुक्क/मुक्कु) अन्यभारतस्यभाषायां "मुष्टिः" वा "नासिका" प्रोक्तम्। अत्र लिखेस्त्वं "मुख" वरम्।

    ॥ॐ नमो भगवते वासुदेवाय॥
    You were kind enough to offer the above... let me offer the transliteration.

    suprabhātam,

    alikhastenaśabdena (mukka) kim |
    tat śabdaḥ (mukka/mukku) anyabhāratasyabhāṣāyāṃ "muṣṭiḥ" vā "nāsikā" proktam |
    atra likhestvaṃ "mukha" varam
    |

    ||Om̐ namo bhagavate vāsudevāya||

    please offer the reader your translation , or your opinion ( or both) on the śloka contained herein.


    iti śivaṁ
    यतस्त्वं शिवसमोऽसि
    yatastvaṁ śivasamo'si
    because you are identical with śiva

    _

  5. #5
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    Re: Looking for chaos ?

    Quote Originally Posted by yajvan View Post
    hariḥ oṁ
    ~~~~~~
    namast�




    You were kind enough to offer the above... let me offer the transliteration.

    suprabhātam,

    alikhastenaśabdena (mukka) kim |
    tat śabdaḥ (mukka/mukku) anyabhāratasyabhāṣāyāṃ "muṣṭiḥ" vā "nāsikā" proktam |
    atra likhestvaṃ "mukha" varam
    |

    ||Om̐ namo bhagavate vāsudevāya||

    please offer the reader your translation , or your opinion ( or both) on the śloka contained herein.


    iti śivaṁ
    That wasn't a shlokam (unless you're talking about ॐ नमो भगवते वासुदेवाय), I was just joking around to an extent. But, anyway...

    suprabhAtam - Good Morning

    alikhaH - you wrote tenashabdena - using this word kim -why mukka -mukka

    tat -that shabdaH -word mukka - mukka anya - other bhAratasya - originating in India bhAShAyAM - in languages "muShTiH" - fist/punch vA - or nAsikA -nose proktam - is the meaning

    atra - here(in) likheH - you should have written tvaM- you (kind of redundant, I know) "mukha" - mouth- varam - rather/instead

    Translation:
    "Good Morning,
    Why did you write using this word mukka. That word in other Indian languages means fist or nose. It would probably have been better if you had written mukha instead."

    The part about mukkA meaning fist is because in some north Indian languages like Hindi and Punjabi (and I believe Bangali as well) it means fist. Regarding the nose comment, mUkku/mukk(A/ai) means nostril in Tamil and Malayalam, mUgu/mUgannu means nose in Old Kannada and mukku means nose in Telugu. The mUkku/mUgu in South Indian languages I think comes from the word for mouth (mukha) in Sanskrit or perhaps the word for crown (mukuTa), but the word mukkA in north Indian languages probably comes from muShTi. Also, in Marathi, mokalA means to open, but that comes from the word mukti.

    Oh yes, and there's also this annoying song, : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HuwhTmM_QGQ

    oM namo bhagavate vAsudevAya - Om, obeiscances unto bhagavAn vAsudeva (kR^iShNa), but you probably already know the general "translation" of this mantram, no? vAsudeva is interesting, as it means both the son of vasudeva as well as the deva that keeps the universe as his vAsa, as the viShNupurANam states:
    सर्वत्रासौ समस्तं चवसत्यत्रेति वैयतः।
    ततः स वासुदेवेति विद्वद्भिः परिपठ्यते॥१.२.१२॥
    This definition not only alludes to kR^iShNa being the avatAra of viShNu, but also to viShNu being the antaryAmI and the creator of all beings, including even rudra and brahmA, as the nArAyaNopaniShad states (nArAyaNAt brahmA jAyate...nArAyaNAt rudra jAyate, meaning that shiva/rudra and brahmA are born from from nArAyaNa).
    Last edited by Jaskaran Singh; 19 August 2014 at 08:49 PM.
    படைபோர் புக்கு முழங்கும்அப் பாஞ்சசன்னியமும் பல்லாண்டே
    May your pA~nchajanya shankha which reverberates on the battlefield, last thousands upon thousands of years...
    http://archives.mirroroftomorrow.org...anchajanya.jpg

  6. #6
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    Re: Looking for chaos ?

    hariḥ oṁ
    ~~~~~~
    namasté


    Quote Originally Posted by Jaskaran Singh View Post

    That wasn't a shlokam (unless you're talking about ॐ नमो भगवते वासुदेवाय),
    My point for your kind consideration is it is our approach to always offer a translation... most, if not all of our readers need the translation to comprehend and read the post. Your cooperation is appreciated on this matter.

    That said many hymns or śloka-s begin with or offer suprabhātam e.g. śrī viśvanātha suprabhātam , śrī veṅkaṭeśa suprabhātam, śrī rāmakṛṣṇa suprabhātam, etc.

    I thought perhaps your offer was going to be in this direction.


    iti śivaṁ
    यतस्त्वं शिवसमोऽसि
    yatastvaṁ śivasamo'si
    because you are identical with śiva

    _

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