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Thread: Feminism and Hinduism

  1. #21
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    Re: Feminism and Hinduism

    I come from a religion where women are considered unworthy to serve as clergy, let alone have characteristics (physical or spiritual) in common with God. To discover in Hinduism a long tradition of recognizing and worshipping the feminie divine on par with the masculine divine is a breath of fresh air. I don't care what "ism" it is called, I celebrate it.

  2. #22
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    Re: Feminism and Hinduism

    Quote Originally Posted by Kumar_Das View Post
    South Indians, especially their television is notorious for this sort of thing. They say "the womb that bears the burden of pregnancy and gives birth is synonymous to the Deva", "this bride is as beautiful and auspicious as Lakshmi".

    No!

    This is nothing but heresy.
    यो यो जगति पुम्भावः सः विष्णुरिति निश्चय।
    या या तु नारिभावस्ताः तत्र लक्ष्मीर्व्यवस्थिता

    yo yo jagati pumbhāvaḥ saḥ viṣṇuriti niścaya|
    yā yā tu nāribhāvastāḥ tatra lakṣmīrvyavasthitā

    In this world, he whoever is in the state of manhood is certainly Vishnu and wherever someone is in the state of womanhood, there resides Lakshmi.

    ~Brahma Purana
    Last edited by Sahasranama; 15 April 2011 at 11:28 AM.

  3. #23

    Re: Feminism and Hinduism

    Quote Originally Posted by Sahasranama View Post
    यो यो जगति पुम्भावः सः विष्णुरिति निश्चय।
    या या तु नारिभावस्ताः तत्र लक्ष्मीर्व्यवस्थिता

    yo yo jagati pumbhāvaḥ saḥ viṣṇuriti niścaya|
    yā yā tu nāribhāvastāḥ tatra lakṣmīrvyavasthitā

    He whoever is in the state of manhood is certainly Vishnu and wherever someone is in the state of womanhood, there resides Lakshmi.

    ~Brahma Purana
    You go Sahasranama!
    Vimoh's blog and Twitter

  4. #24
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    Re: Feminism and Hinduism

    ^ Agreed! I think Sahasranama has said it all with that post.

    Om namah Shivaya
    "Watch your thoughts, they become words.
    Watch your words, they become actions.
    Watch your actions, they become habits.
    Watch your habits, they become your character.
    Watch your character, it becomes your destiny."

    ॐ गं गणपतये नमः
    Om Gam Ganapataye namah

    लोकाः समस्ताः सुखिनो भवन्तु ।
    Lokaah SamastaaH Sukhino Bhavantu

  5. #25

    Talking Re: Feminism and Hinduism

    In my wanderings I have come to a very simple conclusion.

    You cannot begin any journey into understanding when your heart is filled with knots created by the world. These knots (prejudgments, opinions, "knee-jerk reactions") stop the reflection of any religion/divinity from being reflected from your heart into the world.

    For example, if I have decided that every remark ever made to me is ridiculous, I will never consider any opinion given to me because I am far too busy inflicting my own opinion upon it.

    "All beings, great or small, are the manifestation of God."
    http://www.ramakrishna.org/activitie..._message10.htm

    ... I could've probably found a better link for that. You can also find the exact passage it comes from in The Complete Works of Swami Vivekananda on Google Books. If you insist on thrusting the turmoil of māyā into your concept of religion... you might find that many of Vivekanandaswami's messages are pro-feminism. Or you could realize that his works, as well as many, many, many, many, many, many other works have a certain neutrality on specifically addressing genders.

    This topic seems quite tacky, to be honest. I didn't want to get involved but then I decided to consider the opinions presented and figure out what decision I could make on my own. I had constructed a whole explanation of the conclusion I came to with the story of Shiva and Pārvatī and the many references to Shiva as pure consciousness and Shakti as a primordial creative energy. One is always a compliment to the other.

    Here's an English resource that is very short-and-to-the-point with a beautiful picture that you can view to consider the equality inherent to my understanding:
    http://people.tribe.net/genevashanti...b-7d152e0cd15b

    Of course, it is also said that Lakṣmī lives in the heart of Vishnu after witnessing his compassion.

    In our anthropomorphization (that is, giving "human" characteristics to abstract concepts) we have adorned the images we cherish as having male and female merits. In many ways, we use these merits to symbolize traits of the entity (for example, "Divine Mother" allows us to better relate mentally with the abstract concept).

    In much the same way, Murthi are used to bring a physical aspect to abstract concepts. They are a point of focus and worship that we believe can become embodiments of that which we worship.

    If you've followed along this far and able to make logical relationships with elementary concepts, then consider gender as a result of adapting concepts to our ability to understand them. Consider Murthi to be the same.

    Now, Murthi exist in a variety of shapes and sizes. Let's say we have a 3" image of Krishna. Using our clouded mind, it is quite clear that Krishna is only 3" tall because that is the only physical characteristics we can appropriately relate with our current perception! In argument, consider murthi that are much larger - 3", 100 feet, 600 meters, 3,000 palms, 4 billion sheets of 8.5 x 11" paper - it doesn't matter which arbitrary measurement you decide to use. They are all simply too small (and simultaneously too large) to describe the immeasurable.

    In the same clouded judgment, consider that a force/abstract concept/focus of worship can only be described on whether or not they have the physical attribute of boobies.........

    There is a quote -
    "What do you care of the face of God when you can barely see his feet?"

    We can appropriately christen a new quote specifically for this thread:
    "What do you care of the boobies of God when you can barely see the feet?"

    I'm sure someone will be extremely offended by the above. Equally offended as I am by someone trying to judge the merit of an entity you cannot describe by their mammary glands, while equally attempting to simultaneously justify the inferiority/superiority of the indescribable reflected in every person.

  6. #26
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    Re: Feminism and Hinduism

    A day when men caved in and let women have their way, in a hindu mandir !! For 2 successive days a group of activist women barged in and entered the sanctum sanctorum of the mandir in mega polis of Mumbai literally brushing aside the protesting authorities and successfully performed puja, paving way for a new beginning. Sometimes females have to be little more assertive to get things done. Mandirs are run by local boards and a pope figure sitting thousand miles away has no role in hinduism whatsoever. This morning the authorities conducted a meeting and passed a resolution accommodating fairer sex to enter the sanctum sanctorum with immediate effect. The age old objection that menstruating women may attract asuras was upended. Victory to feminism!!
    http://www.deccanherald.com/content/153819/after-2000-years-temple-allows.html

  7. #27
    nitinsharma Guest

    Re: Feminism and Hinduism

    "From the corruption of women proceeds the confusion of races."

    That's all I can say now.Unfortunately our children are raised to believe that men,women of all races,religions etc..are equal and have the right to purse anything they desire-because we all have RED blood.


    So screw everything our culture taught us about women being divine or whatever.Hail Feminism!!!!In fact lets promote it by making dating on Valentine's Day mandatory for all teenage girls to make sure they aren't suppressed/repressed and have their bloody freedom.

    Oh yes and at the same time they can stop referring to themselves as Hindu.

  8. #28

    Re: Feminism and Hinduism

    Quote Originally Posted by Sahasranama View Post
    यो यो जगति पुम्भावः सः विष्णुरिति निश्चय।
    या या तु नारिभावस्ताः तत्र लक्ष्मीर्व्यवस्थिता

    yo yo jagati pumbhāvaḥ saḥ viṣṇuriti niścaya|
    yā yā tu nāribhāvastāḥ tatra lakṣmīrvyavasthitā
    He who in this universe appears masculine, of vishnu's manner he is certainly

    She who also appears feminine anywhere within her is Lakshmi
    The question remains why does it only apply that masculinity in this universe is of style that is Vishnu.

    Whereas anywhere anything that is feminine - its actual nature includes Lakshmi within itself?

    Also why does it say of creatures in this universe that are masculine they are like Vishnu?

    And not Vishnu's masculinity is that of male creatures?

    There is no denying that Lord Vishnu is "Male". But that does not exclude the fact that His Masculinity is not that of anything else.

    There is an actual theological-existential material understanding that is involved here.

    And my position as mentioned still remains.

    And any intelligent Hindu will actually be able to read between the lines.



    Masculinity-male virility-male sexual endowment-the ability to succeed and outlast all others-being strong enough to defeat all others is characteristic of Lord Vishnu.

    Evolution/natural selection/survival of the fittest is under the control of Lord Vishnu(as with just about anything) and is symbolically represented by Lord Vishnu's Avatara.

    The creatures who succeed the rest and survive the longest are those closest to Lord Vishnu.

    In other puranas we know that Lord Vishnu is the only true and foremost Male.

    Of creations the pleasing of a female by a male through masculine sexual behaviour is a trait that is of relation to Vishnu. In other words the pleasing of a female by a male actually is a service to Lord Vishnu.

    Which is why Sages have "powers" unbeknownst and absent to everyone else in this regard as well. They are closer to God/Vishnu. And because of that they are able to please more women and in a better manner. Which is why Sages are male and heterosexual.



    The Goddess of Wealth, is She who grants us with things that are desirable. What we desire are objects that are attractive to us. We pray to the Goddess for material objects which we find of higher aesthetic quality. When we "want" something and seek to include it within our possession, it must be able to reach us, this involves the sanction of the Goddess.

    The Goddess intervenes in realms only where there is a possibility for a person within it to not be able to immediately acquire whatever he wants.

    The Goddess is immanent so long as aesthetically pleasing objects exist.

    If anything at all this verse reinforces masculine dominance.

    Females(and not males mind you) are said to contain the Goddess of Wealth because females are by nature objects of possession and rather a resource/wealth.

    And femininity is of aesthetic appeal more so than masculinity is. In other words being "female" is more about looks than to being a male.

    In any case it still does not say that men are exact and full equivalents of Lord Vishnu and that women are exact and full equivalents of Lakshmi. And that if you pray to a woman she can do whatever that the Goddess does.

    If women are like the Goddess why do they prefer men with fat wallets? Shouldn't it be that they are the Goddess and can grant wealth on their own?

    The Goddess is unlike any woman.

    Prostitution is still a female dominated business. And its still mainly a male customer - female prostitute thing where sexual favours are exchanged for monetary transactions and gifts.

  9. #29
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    Re: Feminism and Hinduism

    So you open the argument with the false premise Bryon was somehow advocating feminism in Shaktism and now you're talking about prostitutes.

    Yeah, any Hindu would call you guru-ji in less than 2 seconds.


  10. #30
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    Re: Feminism and Hinduism

    Namaste KD,

    I'm sorry, but your last post staggers me! How did this post degenerate from a topic about inherent feminism within SD to prostitutes? Has this thread become nothing but a battle of the sexes to you? Are you actually telling me that prostitution wouldn't exist were it not for the mercernary ways of women willing to trade their bodies for money? LOL. Please tell me you're joking!

    Om namah Shivaya
    "Watch your thoughts, they become words.
    Watch your words, they become actions.
    Watch your actions, they become habits.
    Watch your habits, they become your character.
    Watch your character, it becomes your destiny."

    ॐ गं गणपतये नमः
    Om Gam Ganapataye namah

    लोकाः समस्ताः सुखिनो भवन्तु ।
    Lokaah SamastaaH Sukhino Bhavantu

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