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Thread: The name Hindu for the people and the country--not a Hindu name?

  1. #41
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    Re: The name Hindu for the people and the country--not a Hindu name?

    Quote Originally Posted by Anirudh View Post
    Namaste Jaskaran ji,

    Urdu has no place in the discussion as it is an off shoot rather something which reminds us how we are still slaves to our regrettable past.

    No offense intended or taken.
    namaste,
    Couldn't one say the same about English? Even though it's the most prominent global language of communication and the second most commonly-spoken language in the world (after Mandarin Chinese), it was still introduced to India by a foreign invading force which came to loot the country, just like the Mughals (the only difference was that the looting by the British was more subtle and less violent).
    படைபோர் புக்கு முழங்கும்அப் பாஞ்சசன்னியமும் பல்லாண்டே
    May your pA~nchajanya shankha which reverberates on the battlefield, last thousands upon thousands of years...
    http://archives.mirroroftomorrow.org...anchajanya.jpg

  2. #42
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    Re: The name Hindu for the people and the country--not a Hindu name?

    Namaste Jaskaran Ji,

    I will send you a PM as my comments may derail the thread.
    Anirudh...

  3. #43

    Re: The name Hindu for the people and the country--not a Hindu name?

    Namaste.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jaskaran Singh View Post
    What's funny is that even in Urdu we use bhArat for India, like in the following map (بھارت is written in huge print):
    I have also noticed that.

    Quote Originally Posted by Anirudh View Post
    When ever you feel the time has arrived, kindly explain how Indu encompasses BhArata and BhArati. Better yet, you can guide us to figure it out by ourselves.
    I can try, but no guarantee, because ultimately we have to look deep within ourselves to connect to the patterns of the Vedic Rsis.
    So anyway I will try a simple approach here.

    First, bhArata and bhAratī -- think of these as mere words (so, Sanskrit is the key, again).
    Both these words mean: "of bharata" (Hindi: भरत का).
    Mostly, bhArata = son of bharata
    bhAratī = daughter of bharata

    This much is clear as day. But, now, just imagine,
    Who (ka?) is that divine power that could be the Father of Mother BhArati Herself?

    PrajApati. It is PrajApati.

    So the next immediate question: is PrajApati called bharata anywhere? Or, who are the deities that are called bharata?
    Satpatha BrAhmaNa 1.8.14
    'Far, far famed is this Agni of the Bharata (tribe),'--the Bharata, doubtless, is Pragâpati, for he sustains (bhar) this entire (universe);--'that his great light shineth brightly, as the sun(Surya),'--that is, 'that, like the sun(Surya), his great light shines brightly;'
    My further opinion on this;
    Agni and Prajāpati together form the Whole. It is as if the coming together of Finite and Infinite. When we start Yagya, we first become inflated and one with Agni, and then invoke Prajapati to unite with us (this is somewhere in some BrAhmaNa). This is still only a very generic understanding. Actually, just as a rectangular field can be divided by any line running across it, similarly, Rsis used to dissect the Map Of Reality in as many ways as possible, so in that sense we can say, the division into Agni and PrajApati is one such (and of particular interest to us in the present context).


    Now let us have a look at this pada of RgVeda [9.5.9] regarding Indu (Soma) PavamAna,
    "Indu is Indra, tawny Steer; PavamAna is PrajApati."

    So "Indu PavamAna" is purposely broken into Indu and PavamAna to showcase the duality inherent in Indu.

    One part is, clearly, on the side of Infinite Godhead, the PrajApati, while the other is on the side of the Finite Godhead, Indra.

    But, instead of themselves fully entering inside the DNA of Indu (ain't possible )- PrajApati and Indra elect their representations. Indra selects bhArata from this side and PrajApati sends BhArati from His side. So that's why I said in an earlier post that BhArata is "Indra-like".

    But I also said that BhArati is ILA-like, but here I write She is a representation of PrajApati, how? Actually, it is in the same manner as "bhArata is Indra-like, yet also a representation of Agni". It isn't clear at all, I guess, but let it be, for now.

    So this kind of, "logically", illustrates that "Indu is bhArata-bhArati".


    As of now, I term our nation as BhArat and our Dharma as Indu / Sanaatana (but definitely not Hindu ) Dharma.
    I have no problem in following this lead, post some understanding of the words and their meanings.
    However, I have no problems with "Hindu" as well, since in Hindi (shall we make it Indi, too?) the word Indu is now thus understood to have gone minor sound change, and rather makes the word more pronounceable. Another sound change for the same word, as discussed earlier, is Bindu.

    Hindu is therefore a perfectly valid Hindi word, if not in Sanskrit. So it is an acceptable word. And since the sound change occurred during pArsi-s (when the Mughals were not even existent), there is no particular bogey involved that can militate against its use.

    The reason I believe "Hindu" should/ rather will be discarded eventually, is because the word "Indian" (also from Indu) is equivalent in every sense to "Hindu". And add to it the incidental ongoing onslaught against the word (Hindu), which day by day makes its chances for survival dim.

    As regards, "Dharma", clearly, when we say "Indu/Hindu Dharma" it means "The duty of Indu/Hindu people". So, "Dharma" is not "Religion". It is a deep conspiracy (IMHO, plz correct me ) to equate Dharma with Religion (actually, "organised Religion") and is an attack on the secular ethos of this country and its people.

    Dharma ain't no Religion.
    Dharma admits of only one "organised structure" within India:- India.




    P.S.:
    1) Indu doesn't mean "Moon" originally, neither does soma. Indu is infact more related to Surya Deva. "Moon" is a symbol of "mind-body" and thus is the last receiver of the nectar, here on the mortal Earth, and hence soma can be seen on this level only symbolically as Moon. Indu, however, is the level of soma not on Earth but on Swarga. So connecting Indu with Moon is not OK.
    2) PrajApati has undergone some change after the Vedic age, but still, as this wiki-page amply shows, He still remained a very formidable Deity, and could well be on a resurgence today.
    Last edited by satay; 07 April 2014 at 11:50 AM.
    Things to remember:

    1. Life = yajña
    2. Depth of Āstika knowledge is directly proportional
    to the richness of Sanskrit it is written in
    3. Āstika = Bhārata ("east") / Ārya ("west")
    4. Varṇa = tripartite division of Vedic polity
    5. r = c. x²
    where,
    r = realisation
    constant c = intelligence
    variable x = bhakti

  4. #44
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    Smile Re: The name Hindu for the people and the country--not a Hindu name?

    and is an attack on the secular ethos of this country
    Namaste K T ji

    Word secular confuses and at the same time irks me more than my be(i)tter half's mindset.

    Just joking...

    Thanks for sharing your views. I will.reply to you in few days....
    Anirudh...

  5. #45

    Re: The name Hindu for the people and the country--not a Hindu name?

    This is from Francois Gautier's blog: (emphasis mine)
    And indeed, if you look at India today, you find that Hinduism has permeated, influenced, shaped, every part of this country, every religion, every culture. Be it the Christians who are like no other Catholics of the world, or Indian Muslims, who whatever they may say, are utterly different from their brothers in Saudi Arabia. But Hinduism is too narrow a word, it’s a corruption of the original word “Indu”, for true Hinduism is Dharma, India’s infinite and eternal spiritual knowledge, which took shape into so many varied expressions throughout the ages, be it the Vedantas, Buddhism, or the Arya Samaj and which is today still very much alive in India, particularly in its rural masses, which after all constitute 80% of its population. And the words of the great Sage still echo in our ears: “Each nation is a shakti or power of the evolving spirit in humanity and lives by the principle it embodies. India is the Bharata Shakti, the living energy of a great spiritual conception- and fidelity to it is the very principle of her existence…But we must have a firm faith that India must rise and be great and that everything that happened, every difficulty, every reverse must help and further the end…”
    Things to remember:

    1. Life = yajña
    2. Depth of Āstika knowledge is directly proportional
    to the richness of Sanskrit it is written in
    3. Āstika = Bhārata ("east") / Ārya ("west")
    4. Varṇa = tripartite division of Vedic polity
    5. r = c. x²
    where,
    r = realisation
    constant c = intelligence
    variable x = bhakti

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